I'm going to gently say this to you, but I want you to take this comment very seriously you must stop conversations like this with your XGF. They can lead you down a very dangerous path...without you realizing you are heading down it.
I know you had a reason to ask her that question but you need to steer clear of talking about issues within your marriage with a woman from your past, especially one you had an intimate relationship with. I'm not saying you are having an EA, but this is how EA's start. K?
Does your W know that you talk with this woman? If she does know you talk with her, does she know you talked about this? I ask these things to make sure you aren't doing something you wouldn't tell your W about, that it's out in the open. Hiding it is DANGEROUS. I just want you to avoid a pitfall.
Have you ever seen a Neural Psychologist? It's surprising what they can do to help you retrain your brain. They can literally teach you to think with a different part of your brain...so that when you find yourself behaving in a manner you don't want to you conciously switch to another mode of thinking. My H had to do this in order to get over his defensiveness and constant negativity. It also helped in how he viewed/thought about me....and our relationship. It's just a thought for you.
I still think the right sex therapist would be able to help you tremendously as well. It's my belief that for men like my own husband and yourself a large part of learning to be the aggressor in a sexual relationship is forcing yourself outside of your comfort zone and forcing yourself to do things you don't normally do, even if it's small stuff at first. Like perhaps as Nopkins has suggested before walk up behind her and nibble on her neck...then walk away. It may feel REALLY awkward for you at first to do this, but make a concious effort to do it maybe once a day for a week....you'll be uncomfortable at first doing this, but then it will become more comfortable. The first time you may have to somehow just take a deep breath and go for it...but you'll get through it, and she will so appreciate the effort.
Then, next week...add something to it. Perhaps a neck nibble and you reach around to fondle a breast...something like that.
Do you think that might be a way for you to start? These are some of the things my H is learning to do and it makes such a difference for me.
Ya know....I know I'd love it if my H would "ravage" me too LOL, but that's just not gonna happen and I know that. But there are other things, like I just mentioned, that let a woman know she's desireable to her spouse too...and those things really help.
I'm going to gently say this to you, but I want you to take this comment very seriously you must stop conversations like this with your XGF. They can lead you down a very dangerous path...without you realizing you are heading down it.
I know you had a reason to ask her that question but you need to steer clear of talking about issues within your marriage with a woman from your past, especially one you had an intimate relationship with. I'm not saying you are having an EA, but this is how EA's start. K?
Does your W know that you talk with this woman? If she does know you talk with her, does she know you talked about this? I ask these things to make sure you aren't doing something you wouldn't tell your W about, that it's out in the open. Hiding it is DANGEROUS. I just want you to avoid a pitfall.
Have you ever seen a Neural Psychologist? It's surprising what they can do to help you retrain your brain. They can literally teach you to think with a different part of your brain...so that when you find yourself behaving in a manner you don't want to you conciously switch to another mode of thinking. My H had to do this in order to get over his defensiveness and constant negativity. It also helped in how he viewed/thought about me....and our relationship. It's just a thought for you.
I still think the right sex therapist would be able to help you tremendously as well. It's my belief that for men like my own husband and yourself a large part of learning to be the aggressor in a sexual relationship is forcing yourself outside of your comfort zone and forcing yourself to do things you don't normally do, even if it's small stuff at first. Like perhaps as Nopkins has suggested before walk up behind her and nibble on her neck...then walk away. It may feel REALLY awkward for you at first to do this, but make a concious effort to do it maybe once a day for a week....you'll be uncomfortable at first doing this, but then it will become more comfortable. The first time you may have to somehow just take a deep breath and go for it...but you'll get through it, and she will so appreciate the effort.
Then, next week...add something to it. Perhaps a neck nibble and you reach around to fondle a breast...something like that.
Do you think that might be a way for you to start? These are some of the things my H is learning to do and it makes such a difference for me.
Ya know....I know I'd love it if my H would "ravage" me too LOL, but that's just not gonna happen and I know that. But there are other things, like I just mentioned, that let a woman know she's desireable to her spouse too...and those things really help.
GEL
My wife does know I talk to her. She does not know of that conversation, but I wouldn't hide that from her. It was a legitimate question. I know what you're saying. I can handle this girl - she's burned me enough in the past, with that "don't you want me?, get me back, then dump me crap." I have no intention of going back with her. Plus she lives 7 hours away, so it's not that practical.
I've been thinking part of my problem is just, plain old-fashioned fear of rejection that could be stopping me from initiation. I believe I can overcome this. However, I cannot make these sort of advances right now, 'cuz we are not actually having sex at this time. Our relationship is in trouble, and I am at a stage where I am letting her have her space and getting myself mentally better. It may be awhile before I can regain her trust in me or desire for me. I am willing to take it slow because I know reacting in a typical manner will only continue to push her away. I'm taking advice from this website actually. Thank you for the advice, concern, and encouragement. I do appreciate it!
It's interesting to me that in the long while that I've been on this BB there has not been a single exception to the rule that a LDH will not feel the desire to become fully sexual or join a BB like this until his HDW is basically out the door and no longer wanting him. OTOH, quite a few LDW come here before things get quite so out of hand. It's so clear to me that the "solution" to the problem is not to try to get these guys to want to f*ck the "madonna". The solution is simply that the HDW have to start acting like "whores" , not really "whores" but something more like "b*tches". Some men just get turned on by the drama of having their *ss kicked to the curb or the thought of their wife with another man. I think it's really reflective of low self esteem as in "She doesn't want me so she must be better than me therefore I want her" or "Other men want her so she must be hot so I want her too.".. It's weird how it can simultaneously be true that people are more attracted to people who aren't attracted to them for validation reasons but also more aroused by being around people who are aroused by them for straight-forward sexual-social interaction reasons. Another good reason why looking for validation s*cks if you actually want to have hot sex.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I was an LDH for a good while. She never threatened to leave over it; I don't know how close to giving up she was, and I don't think she knows either. Interestingly, while I was in that state, I didn't breathe a word of it to anybody, even anonymous Internet people; only after I started on medication and turned things around was I even willing to look at sites like this one.
Also, like you mentioned, I find that I do get turned on by drama, and I get very turned on by the thought of my wife with another man. Not that she's ever done that, or (as far as I know) even considered doing that, but imagining it is a real turn on, and we've both noticed that when she talks about a guy at the gym that she thinks is cute, I'm all over her. A lot of times, when I watch porn, instead of imagining that I'm the guy, I imagine that the girl is my wife and I'm watching her do it with the other guy. I'm not about to encourage that sort of thing in real life (I know it's a bad idea all around), but I know I'd still love her and want her (and probably want to ravish her even more) if she had a fling or even a boyfriend on the side.
Last edited by Crazy Eddie; 05/04/0706:22 PM.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
I get very turned on by the thought of my wife with another man. Not that she's ever done that, or (as far as I know) even considered doing that, but imagining it is a real turn on, and we've both noticed that when she talks about a guy at the gym that she thinks is cute, I'm all over her.
It's probably kind of lame of me to link such a phenomena directly to low self-esteem but I wonder why some men thing "Sloppy seconds" and other men think "Buttered buns". In my mind, the probably overly simplistic explanation is that if a guy isn't feeling Alpha in the sense that he feels like he thinks other men are better than him or he needs the approval of other men, he will want to f*ck women who have been "marked" as desirable by a man who is more Alpha. Of course, it's not like a guy being turned off at the thought of "sloppy seconds" is exactly the opposite of this either although if I envision some sort of situation in which some drunken (not HD -lol- HD women don't do this sort of thing for the same reason that people who love music lock up their vintage album collection when they have a party) woman is putting out for the troops, I gotta respect the guy who just says "No" and totally disrespect the guy who does it just because the other guys did. This phenomena is why I kind of had a theory for a while that my H was emotionally homosexual. He cared more about the opinion of other men than any woman in his life although he was physically attracted to T&A. He liked taking me to parties when I was looking hot to show me off to the other guys but then he wouldn't f*ck me when we got home. IMO a guy who had really high self-esteem or was really Alpha or mature wouldn't give a cr*p what other men thought. They would be his competitors or his underlings and the woman would be the one he was trying to impress, not them, but of course not in a way that made him crawl to please the woman either. So what I really mean is that a guy who was really Alpha would mostly be concerned with pleasing himself.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I wouldn't be surprised if it had something to do with low self-esteem (it seems sometimes that there's only a handful of people that don't have low self-esteem, and they're too busy running the world or inventing the future to even think about self-esteem). But, in my case at least, it has nothing to do with impressing or pleasing other guys. I don't really give a crap about the guy. For me the turn-on comes more from the thought of her getting so turned on she couldn't stop herself from crossing the line, and then getting pleasured so much she could barely stand it. Not so much "Dude, I'm going to share my wife with you", but "Dude, help me give her the most intense sexual experience she's ever had" or "Dude, give her the best sex of her life and leave her barely able to walk". And I'd watch or hear her descriptions, and take notes, and have my way with her myself, and she'd get to have her cake and eat it too and be happier than a pig in slop from all the sex and attention she was getting.
Yeah, not very Alpha either. And not a very smart thing to encourage in real life for various reasons.
Last edited by Crazy Eddie; 05/04/0708:38 PM.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
Interesting. So the other guy was more like your surrogate than your competition or your leader. Kind of like hiring a guy to mow the lawn and just doing the edging yourself if your wife was really into lawn care -lol . I remember one LDH who showed up on the BB said that he thought his basic problem was just laziness. Or maybe it's more of a case of needing a sort of reminder about how it's done. Kind of like how you might watch another guy do a skateboard trick and then be able to remember how to do it yourself.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Kind of like hiring a guy to mow the lawn and just doing the edging yourself if your wife was really into lawn care -lol . I remember one LDH who showed up on the BB said that he thought his basic problem was just laziness. Or maybe it's more of a case of needing a sort of reminder about how it's done. Kind of like how you might watch another guy do a skateboard trick and then be able to remember how to do it yourself.
Yeah, a little of both. Show me how to do it better, and help me give her variety and all the hot sex she can stand.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
I think about the same thing from time to time and my thinking is along the lines of Crazy Eddie when he says "For me the turn-on comes more from the thought of her getting so turned on she couldn't stop herself from crossing the line, and then getting pleasured so much she could barely stand it. Not so much "Dude, I'm going to share my wife with you", but "Dude, help me give her the most intense sexual experience she's ever had" or "Dude, give her the best sex of her life and leave her barely able to walk"..
I differ in that its not to take notes. Its more voyeuristic than anything. In a way the opposite of the Madonna sydrome. Not whore but slut. The term slut has negative connotations for most but I once heard a woman on the radio talk show challenge that. Whores do it for money while sluts do it because they enjoy it. Why is that bad she said? Not necessarily having sex with anyone, but with anyone she desires and who is worthy of her and she is free to enjoy herself to the fullest.
The wife gone wild is a very popular fantasy; my wife and I recently picked up a copy of Penthouse Letters and 2/3 of the stories were about wives having fun while their husbands watched. Not sure if its a lack of confidence or all these guys are non ALPHA males or perhaps the husbands have wives who are somewhat reserved in bed and would love to see them lose their inhibitions. I do know that female sexuality is very beautiful and erotic and that must have a lot to do with it. I also think there is something to the effect of wow I have someone really special who is Goddess like in her desires.
Finally, I do agree with MJ comment
"The solution is simply that the HDW have to start acting like "whores" , not really "whores" but something more like "b*tches". Some men just get turned on by the drama of having their *ss kicked to the curb "
I agree. Maybe not a b*tch but a high maintenance from the prespective of I am special and deserve to be treated well. Very confident and assertive and from a man's point of view very attractive. Something along the lines of "You will ML to me 2-3X a week and if you are too tired use other parts of your body to satisfy me"
