Hi all, I see that this is an active board and my issues with my husband are sex related so my post in "Newcomers" may not be the best place for it. I am almost embarassed how open I have been and wonder if I'm offending people with some of the stuff in my post. Anyhow, if you can click on my name and read my previous posts and have any advice for me, that would be great. I've kind of decided to just "journal" on here somewhat, so I know I've written a lot, but it's a complicated story. lol Don't feel like you have to read it all. Just desperate to talk with someone who understands.
GEL, Thank you SO much for replying. He says that we fight constantly (a bit over exaggerated, but I would agree we fight too often) and he says we are just like roommates, no passion.
When I caught him in his emotional affair (a flirtatious email relationship) I was anticipating our "date night" which *I* had been the one to mention/support/keep up with. He never mentioned it. He never even seemed excited about it, but went along with it.
He also is TORTURED/HAUNTED by a major breakup we had 1 year into our relationship, back in 1992. Yes, 1992. Some social acquaintances (distant) popped back into our life right before our son was born a year ago, and it reared its ugly head in a big way. He has been telling me since then how unhappy he is, but then things would seem to settle down and I would relax. From *MY* perspective, things were not that bad. Imagine being in a "comfortable" relationship where sure you know you need to improve some things, but you aren't the one unhappy and he would always come home (especially after a business trip) and talk about how he was unhappy and didn't know if he could live like this anymore, we fight all the time, etc. When he was really full of discontent, he would start to mention the past, how I had hurt him back then. He worshiped me and I broke his heart and slept with other guys. (We were apart for a couple of months and yes, both of us were in relationships, I initiated the breakup because I totally settled down and changed my life for him then began to resent it. I wish it never happened, and I admit I was being horribly selfish and cold during that time, but he MARRIED me SIX YEARS LATER. We had our first child ELEVEN YEARS later and I simply don't know what else to do. I do not think he is doing it consciously/intentionally, but I feel like whenever he starts to feel discontent, he uses this as a way to fend off any responsibility he may have in the relationship. When I found out he was emailing this woman, I was so hurt because I had been getting this vibe from him like he was really unhappy, but it was all MY fault, and I kept looking at what I could do to improve things. Yes, I admit, I am a volatile person and we still did fight too much, but I was trying to maintain personal time for each of us, keep the love alive with sex, etc. He thinks that if I do kinky stuff with him, it's the ultimate sign that I love him above all others and I'm sorry, with the EA and all the turmoil, I am not going to initiate some of the things he wants me to do. It might make him feel better, but it won't do anything for me, so I'm not doing it!
Thank you for any further advice. I am really feeling hopeless.
Ok...what SPECIFICALLY did he ever tell you he needed to feel that there was passion? To feel that you weren't just living as roommates? You cannot fix something like this if he cannot give you specifics.
What type of a physical relationship did you have...did he initiate/you reject? Vice-versa? It's hard to help without specifics.
One thing I definitely want to ask though with the problems you two have had with infidelity in the past is this...have you two been to marriage counseling? If not...why not?
I have read all your posts, and I find your situation intriguing.
Let me ask you a few questions.
What part does Missy play both in the breakup and now as your friend?
Your husband seems to be uncomfortable with you discussing your marriage with her. Why do you think that is?
Why do you think hubby is so haunted by your breakup?
Do you think that he feels that others know more about your actions during the breakup than he does?
Now a suggestion or two.
Stay out of the bars with your friends for a while. Even if he is just being paranoid, don't make it worse for now.
Make SURE you wear your ring.
Stop fighting altogether. You can do it, you simply don't engage. If he is nasty, then retreat. By stopping the fighting, you immediately change the dynamic of the relationship. This can eventually make some room for the two of you address your concerns in a constructive manner.
Also, a word to the wise. Quoting you "...but he MARRIED me SIX YEARS LATER" doesn't mean that he was over the past or that he views the passage of an event such as your marriage, as a "get out of jail free" card or a new start.
What I mean is that it appears to me, that in his mind, your relationship with him, even though disrupted by the breakup, was contiguous. To him, your marriage was not the beginning of your "new" relationship. He has brought along all the baggage of the earlier portion.
It would be unwise to discount his connection to the past just because you don't feel or see it the same way. To do so is to dismiss how he feels about you, the good and the bad. It can also drive a wedge deeply dividing the way he feels about the relationship.
The both of you are going to have to get to the core issue of why the past is causing him so much pain. That is not likely to happen quickly.
Make sure that you are not being grabby/needy/desperate with him right now. I know that seems unfair, but it is purposeful.
I look forward to hearing from you.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I can't thank you enough for your time to read my story and give me your insight. I appreciate it so much!
Ok, GEL, specifically, he wanted me to be more "into it", show him he was a priority. He wanted me to initiate and he has always hinted but now he seems to be hung up on a couple of things: anal sex, shaving and me swallowing during bj. Sorry to be graphic, but those are the things that he says he thinks I did with other guys and won't do with him. (I have told him this is not true and he tells me he thinks I'm lying.) I saw our situation as more of a men like more hot sex and women like more romance. We would get into a vicious cycle where neither of us felt like we were getting what we needed to feel really giving to the other one.
NOPkins, thank you so much for reading ALL my posts. Lol, I would cut you a paycheck if I could. Lol! First of all, you are right on many points. I probably should stay out of bars right now, that was a very rare opportunity for me to go out, but I can see how it made him totally suspicious even though *I* know that there was nothing to it. I should wear my ring. I will make a point to do that. It was an oversight. (PS He never used to wear a ring, for years, and I asked him to wear it again after I found out about the email relationship.)
As far as fighting, I have totally pulled out of fighting mode. I considered leaving town with the kids yesterday, but I didn't. I made dinner, small talked, etc. When bedtime came around, (he has to get up early to go to work, I am a stay at home mom, and I'm more of a night owl), I said I was going to go read on the couch and I would come back to our bed to go to sleep. He said why are you doing that? I said, because it's 11:15, I assume you are turning out the lights soon. He said well, I figured I would sleep on the couch. I said why? He said, to keep a distance. I said, that is your choice. But then I headed into the living room to read on the couch and he stayed in bed.
This morning, I wanted to take a shower before both kids woke up, but it was right around the time he normally gets in the shower. I didn't know if it would cause problems with hot water, so I said, "Do you think we could both take a shower at the same time?" He said, "I really need to get ready." I said, "Did you hear what I said?" He didn't seem to understand. Later he said, "I thought you meant for you and I to take a shower together." I said, "oh." No, I'm not at a place where I can suggest that. We had sex last week or so, but things have changed since then.
The biggie yesterday was realizing he changed his passwords a week ago, stating that I "lost my right" to his passwords after I snooped. The day after finding out about the email relationship, I asked him "Do you have anything to hide?" He said, "no." I said I want your passwords then." He seemed surprised and a tiny bit flustered by my request, but he consented. I had been telling him though that it was kind of an unspoken understanding between us that I would be occasionally checking and he deleted EVERYTHING. It was kept clean as a whistle. So when I pointed out that he was corresponding with people I found in our computer history that he deleted out of his inbox, I felt he was being deceitful. So last night after work, he asked me why I had made a point to be gone when he came home. (I took the kids for a walk and came home just before 7 and cooked dinner.) I said "I'm angry." He said "Well you've either just come to this conclusion or Missy put it in your head, because you didn't feel that way before you left." I said, "It was when I found out today that you changed your passwords." (which he had done a week prior but I had just realized because it was the first time I had checked and he confirmed that yes, he had done that.) Some time a bit later he asked me basically if I was still wanting to try or if my mindset had changed and I said no, my mindset had not changed. I feel like he has set this whole situation up so that what *HE* did doesn't exist and all we focus on is what *I* did so long ago.
I agree that it would be counterproductive to discount his feelings. I am getting towards the end of my rope with it though. I feel like I have been patient and apologetic for SO long. I also feel like I've been drug through the mud in a BIG way for a LONG time. I also feel like whenever I am legitamitely (sp?) mad at him, this is what he pulls up as defense.
Ok, as far as Missy goes. She is a very no-nonsense type of person and she has NO patience for hearing about the past anymore. Joey knows this because the day that I asked him for passwords, I told him that I saw he had changed his passwords. He asked how I knew (our computer went on the fritz when he ripped the mouse out for fear that I was going to email the OW.) I told him I had called Missy and asked to check his email for me. That was all that was said about it. But that night he called her before leaving work. She said that she told him everything she ever wanted to say on the topic. She said that she was very honest about how she hopes that we can fix things, but if he cannot get over the past it is no longer valid for him to bring up the past. This infuriates him and once, when we were leaving a counseling session, he was FURIOUS and banging the steering wheel, saying "She has no idea and I hope to God she never experiences the pain I've felt!!" I have probably been more understanding than my friends, but there is a part of me that has had a limited tolerance for hearing about it.
Whatever you are thinking on the situation, please feel free to tell me, I really appreciate any advice.
The other thing about Missy is this. (I may have mentioned this in a post, but glossed over it because it's complicated.) About one year ago, Missy developed a relationship with a long time friend of our from high school. He moved in with her and now they are engaged. He is the best friend of a guy that I was with while Joey and I were broke up. So Joey feels that he and the other guy were part of that time period. All of us can see his animosity towards the other guy, named Charles. But we cannot so clearly see the logic in him hating Joe. Joey explained it as Charles being a 10, then Joe is a 9 (on the hatred scale?). This affected Missy because she was wanting to come and visit me for my baby shower and was in this brand new relationship etc. Joe was going to bring her and drop her off then go visit his family in the area. Joey threw a fit and refused to let Joe even set foot in our house. Missy was offended and refused to even stay at our house, so I got her a hotel (which I paid for out of my embarassment, which Joey found out about and got pissed over.) So this was all one year ago. Somehow, miraculously, Joey has decided to ease up on the Joe situation and while I think it still bothers him, he does not say a word when we see them socially now. That situation is MUCH better. He shook his hand when we met up once and we were all blown away. Since then I think he has transferred all the hatred to me (where it logically belongs I guess.)
I have more to say but it will be later today. In the mean time, a couple of suggestions.
Immediately remove Missy from any discussions about your marriage. You need to get her out of the drama. From what you describe, her effect on the relationship right now is toxic. She needs to be excluded from the relationship (for now) just like the other woman.
Right now, it looks like there are four adults in your marriage instead of the normal two.
Also. Stop all of the game playing. Even if he does it, you stop all of your part. No threats, no couch games, none of that. Sleep in your bed with or without him. No running off with the kids when you two are going at it. Like I said in my earlier post, no fighting. Stop all the drama.
On the issue with the past. Apologize to him that you have hurt his feelings. Let him know you are sorry, every time he brings it up. Obviously, you never stopped loving him during the breakup. Let him know that you are sorry that you hurt him, but tell him that he never lost your heart, even when things were bad. Most importantly, stop justifying any of it. That just makes it worse for him.
I know you can't do this forever, but you need to understand that in his world, he is living in pain that he hasn't figured out how to process yet. Making demands that he "just get over it" really makes the situation much worse. If your counselor or friends are telling you to tell him that, then you need to ignore their advice. They are wrong.
Oh, and let hubby know that you won't be discussing your marital problems with Missy or anyone other than with your counselor.
I understand that he is behaving inappropriately, but he has some major trust issues that are going to at least need to be addressed before you can do much else. So for the time being, consider yourself to be the bomb squad. You diffuse situations as they arise. I don't mean for you to be a door mat, but for you to back way off.
Give him a sheet of paper with all your accounts and their passwords (this site excepted). Don't delete emails. You demonstrate what transparency looks like to him.
Are you following me so far?
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
NOPkins, I want to thank you for all the advice. It truly has helped! We are far from out of the woods, but I was so encouraged by last night. We did NOT fight. We successfully small talked and he reached out to me and we made love before falling asleep. He has told me he loves me three times in the last day. I have reciprocated.
I changed my passwords out of anger right after finding out he changed his, but silently changed them back again almost immediately afterwards. Thanks for the advice on that. In an effort to not TALK AT ALL about things, I have not mentioned this to him, but you can be sure I will in our session on Monday when we are supposed to discuss his email relationship. I feel like I need to "prepare" for that, but I don't really know what to do!
THANKS FOR READING AND FOR ALL THE ADVICE! It is SO appreciated!!
His emails are proof that his relationship with this other woman is far more familiar than he should be with her.
You need to politely tell him that his familiarity concerns you and that it is hurting you. Don't make demands.
In the mean time, you need to demonstrate (to him) propriety regarding your marriage and what you discuss with your friends. You need to also be completely transparent to him in your dealings with others. This is very important, and you need to start now. Make CERTAIN that you don't flirt with anyone, even in small ways.
My impression of your hubby is that he is on the cusp of making a major mistake. He is feeling entitled from his resentment regarding the past. I am not for a moment saying that he is right, I am just telling you what I am observing. Right now, your option is simple; Do you want to be married or do you want to be right?
You've got to create a safe place for him to land because he is flying blind.
Have you implemented any of my previous suggestions?
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
