I typed an even longer response to you but I've deleted it.
I think your advice to let it be for awhile is exactly what I intended to do anyway.
But there is a hazard to accepting everyone's advice blindly. Yesterday, PL's assertion was that H was a cold mean man with no emotional reaction to our situation. I did not believe this, and it was proved wrong this morning. Her assertion was proved wrong precisely because I was willing to attempt to correct a misunderstanding that I had. I took responsibility for the misunderstanding AND I made myself very vulnerable by putting myself in the place where I might hear "No, AH I have no idea how you can feel heartbroken. I feel great."
But, I didn't hear that, did I.
I consider this morning's conversation a huge success. It was respectful, it was genuine, and it cleared up a misunderstanding that hurt me very much. With one exception, I did listen to him all the way through, maintaining eye contact, and not responding until he was completely finished. It wasn't perfect, it was a success.
You are right that we have a long way to go in learning to communicate.
You are right that H is paralyzed by fear.
You are wrong in the attribution you make as to why he is paralyzed...by his own admission he goes to extremes to avoid conflict DUE TO HIS CHILDHOOD. He was paralyzed by fear before he ever met me. That is why he ran from his first marrage. And "letting him get away" with avoiding the difficult and painful conversations required to grow was a mistake that I will never ever make again.
H didn't leave looking beaten, or smug, or unheard. He left looking calmer than when he arrived.
I know you mean the best for me. I feel picked on. I know that isn't what you mean. Nonetheless, that is how I feel.
I guess I didn't expect to hear AH you f'd up this morning.
AH you f'd for 20 years, maybe.
But not this morning. This morning was about not assuming, about willing to being vulnerable, about taking responsibility to pursue the conversation until I understand what he meant. He can choose to understand me or not, I can only handle my side of it.
Cheers. ASSuming we understood what the other one wanted, and what the other one meant, by their behaviors, got us where we are today.
You are awesome AH, I am proud of you. Trusting your instincts, over anything that is written here, is the way to carve your own path into the meaningful life you stand for. I am really glad you had the conversation with your H to clear stuff up. You are making changes, and growing. You can always tell if something is working (if you are on the right track) by the way you feel about it. You had a great result. Good job, keep it up AH. Cheers to you lovie.
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
I think one thing you and I have both learned is to take what advice we get here and then go with our gut. If I had followed all the hard advice I've been given by some my kids probably would not have a father in their life at all. He may not be the one they want but he's around.
You did the right thing. It helped you. We can't say for sure what anyone else should or shouldn't do. That's why I don't post to many on here much, except to chat, because my advice goes against the grain of what most want to do.
I have many doubts in my own sitch and often think perhaps I'm crazy, but in the deepest part of me I cannot give up. I know what I want and I'm willing to go through hell if I have to (and I am) to see R's restored throughout our family.
I love getting advice and support, but in the end I turn to prayer before I do anything.
You are going through an awful time right now and the move is not helping. I would give anything to come down and help you pack and move some boxes and sit on the floor and cry with you. I really would.
You are in my prayers and thoughts so often. Here's a big hug ((((((((((((((AH))))))))))))))
Sun
"Tell me what you plan to do with your one wild and precious life." Mary Oliver
AH, I didn't mean to pick on you, that was not my intent.
Instead I felt like I was confirming what I thought you suspected.
As I said, it is very hard to read these things sometimes and understand the whole context and intent.
But you asked, Why is it so important to me to understand exchanges like this? and you admitted, "He is actually tring to communicate honestly with me and is just plain not so good at it. Neither am I, as revealed by this exchange."
I felt like I was confirming what you were already seeing and trying to explain it in a way that would get you off the floor.
I was hoping to try to convey that you all are stuck right now in this endless cycle of not being able to communicate with each other and so I think the best thing to do is stop. If it's not working, quit doing it.
You may have been pleased with what he said, that may have given you reassurance, but you didn't say that to him, you just kept talking (again, if we are to rely on what you reported here) about how what he had said made you feel, made you suspect, hurt you...
Anyway, it just was a very striking exchange to me, and I felt like I saw some things in it that were worth telling you about.
"You are wrong in the attribution you make as to why he is paralyzed...by his own admission he goes to extremes to avoid conflict DUE TO HIS CHILDHOOD. He was paralyzed by fear before he ever met me. That is why he ran from his first marrage. And "letting him get away" with avoiding the difficult and painful conversations required to grow was a mistake that I will never ever make again."
I don't disagree with you that the reason he avoids conflict is because of unresolved childhood issues, not having good role models for communication growing up, etc. And that dysfunction has dictated his communication, or more accurately, failure to communicate as an adult.
I lived with one of those too so I get exactly what you are saying.
But what I see you doing, and what I see as the source of your frustration is that you are determined to force him out of that pattern. And you see what he's doing as wrong. "letting him get away with it"--that's pretty strong judging language.
I am just suggesting here that perhaps you two can't communicate because you have a predetermined idea about how people are supposed to communicate. He is never going to communicate like you do. And you keep trying to force him to.
Yes, his childhood got him to this place, but I would submit to you that you are keeping him in that place. You are sending a message that he's not safe expressing his feelings with you. That if he doesn't express them in a certain way, he's avoiding, he's not being honest, he's suppressing. Yes, that IS exactly all of what he does. But quit grading it...Let him say it. And every time he does, validate it.
Read this again: "And "letting him get away" with avoiding the difficult and painful conversations required to grow was a mistake that I will never ever make again."
In my opinion, you would be better served by concentrating on "letting go" rather than "letting him get away with".
Thank you for posting to me again. I hope You realize that if I didn't value your opinion, I wouldn't bother replying. I'm extremely upset today and I would just blow it off if I didn't think it was important enough to try to work through.
"But what I see you doing, and what I see as the source of your frustration is that you are determined to force him out of that pattern. And you see what he's doing as wrong. "letting him get away with it"--that's pretty strong judging language."
Why in the world do you think I went to the effort of putting "letting him get away with it" in quotes? I am at the end of my rope today and I went to the trouble to set it off visually. Well, here is the answer. Because I damn well knew that it was more judgmental than I actually felt or believed, but couldn't come up with the words and, as I am doing now, was typing extremely quickly.
Annie, there is no-one on this board who gives the impression of doing more self-monitoring than I do. I KNOW it sounded judgmental, and it is not a genuine reflection of how I felt. Over the years, I wanted him to be happy and I gave in to things that I didn't want, without insisting that we communicate effectively about why he wanted it, what the effect would be on me, on our family, and so on. It was as much my fault as his. I just don't want to do it anymore.
