I've been married 10 years to a really nice guy. He's attractive, dependable, funny, a great Dad and he is able to please me physically in bed. For about 9 1/2 years of our marriage we've had sex 2 -3 times a month (if all goes well). I always thought that was the issue--lack of. Recently, he's been able to up that (no pun intended) to 6 or more times a month. But he never initiates and there's no excitement or passion on his part. I have to plan and inititiate and throw myself on him, but he just doesn't get excited. And that is what I see is really the bottom line issue. He doesn't pursue or seem interested and I don't know what to do.
I've blamed it on all kinds of things (scheduling, he's a firefighter) and then myself for years. I'm not sexy enough, not pretty enough, not what he wants, etc. I've been through all the emotions--even down to he must not love me anymore. He swears that none of the above is true that it's him. But I have done my dead level best to reassure him that he's the one I love, I find him attractive, sexy, that he pleases me etc. I have turned myself inside out trying to be everything I think a man would find attractive, to get his attention. I don't know what to do to loosen him up so that he actually ENJOYS sex and seeks me out.
Maybe there are some men out there who could offer some advice or women who've overcome this issue. I'm just wondering what to do. I love him to death, but I am so starved for a man who DESIRES me...we have 2 small children (and we are done having children) and I don't want them to grow up without him, but I am struggling to hang on. I love him, but find I am shutting down because I am so hurt and lonely. I don't want a dead marriage where we go our separate ways and live for the children ending up strangers when they leave the house.
The only insight I can offer on his background is this: he's an only child, his mother is extremely critical toward his Dad (and I assume was toward him when he was in their home), his Mom and Dad show no affection toward one another they are like strangers living in the same house, and he told me once that when he was growing up his Dad would see kissing on TV and tell him it was bad. I am totally making assumptions here, but I'd say they scarred him to the point he can't relax and enjoy sex cause he thinks it's bad. But what do I do if this is true? I have tried and tried to point out that we ARE married and that we should enjoy one another.
Any advice would be so helpful. If you want to know more details about our circumstances, I'd be glad to ellaborate. I'm desperate and counseling (3 pastors, 2 counsleors) hasn't seemed to help (he's gone alone to this last one, not with me because we have no one to watch the boys).
Wow! You sound just like my wife. You've been blaming yourself, begging, pleading, and he just won't wake up!
When you have sex he enjoys it, but he just won't initiate it.
There were issues in his childhood. Sex is "bad."
Are you my wife? No, I don't remember seeing kids in the house. I think I would have remembered that.
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No joke, this is my same story. I guess I never really believed my wife. We were best friends. Husband and wife. I never thought it was that bad. There were always other things that seemed more important at the time. My mind was else where with business, finances, etc. I thought I could (and needed) to fix everthing else, then I'd work on the sex part.
I never really knew and understood what my wife was feeling. I love her and she'll stay with me.
Well, a week before our 13th anniversary she said that she wanted a divorce and started staying with a friend. Later she moved back into our house and I've been living at my parents while they are out of town. On Saturday, she's moving out of the house and into her own place and says that it's "permanent."
She hasn't filed. Every now and then she almost seems to be thinking about giving it another try.
I've been thru hell and it's only been 4 weeks since she first left.
We had been in counseling since last October, but we had been working on other issues and not the sex issue. We should have addressed this first, it would have made the other issues easier.
When you first go to your counselor, make it crystal clear as to what the issues are. Make sure your counselor stays on task and addresses these issues. You may have to go to the C by yourself and explain this. Be firm. If they don't address the problem find another C.
You both may need to go the C individually, but don't let anyone be labeled as "the problem". There's enough problems in the marriage for both of you. Don't label him.
Have you read Michelle's SSM book? If not read it ASAP!!!! If possible have him read it too. My wife could never get me to read anything about this. Also read her DR book, but don't have him read it.
For me the key thing that woke me up was when she actually left. I don't know if there was any way I could have woken up, before she left.
Since she left, I've read books. I've gone to the doctor. Had my testostrone tested. It was in the "normal" range, but it was still low in the range. My doc gave me a prescription for AndroGel. I just rub it on my arm/chest daily. (I do feel better, but I no longer have anyone to have sex with.) I'm also on AD's too and have been since last October. They helped a lot with depression.
I've begged, pleaded, written letters, etc, etc, etc.....
She just says that "it's too little, too late." She doesn't believe me any more.
Some how you've got to wake his a$$ up!
He's got to realize that sex isn't bad. That he's got to open up and be able to talk about it. Especially to his doctor. If he's depressed, address that issue.
I have been so mad at myself that I didn't truely wake up until she said it was done.
I don't know your husband, but he's probably very much like me. I know that I have always loved my wife and that I always will. And I would never do anything to hurt my wife the way I have. I just couldn't see it. I was soo blind.
My wife tried to push me to read and open up, etc. But I felt pressured and it pushed me away. It made it harder and harder to have sex.
Please don't blame yourself for everything. Don't believe that you aren't loved by him and that you're not sexy/pretty. You are. You've got to stay strong and help him VERY CAREFULLY along. Keep your confidence strong. It's not going to be easy.
If I could find your husband I'd tell him my story about just how painful and lost I've felt these past 4 weeks. I'd try to beat it into him. DON'T END UP LIKE ME. WAKE UP!!! Before it's too late.
Please stay stong, read those books (SSM then DR), find a C who will address the issue, you both go to the C. Work at it. Keep working at it. This can be fixed!!
Passionate - take a look at the thread under SSM called Whore/Madonna Syndrome and see if your H fits any of the signs. I never thought what my H had actually had a name but he definitely fits the bill to a "T" and if it is what he has, trying to make him have sex will make things worse, trust me.
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
Thanks so much. You do sound like my husband (and I mean that in a gentle way). He tries so hard on all the "things" in life and he'd never EVER want to hurt me, but no, he does not understand how far he's driven me over the edge. I wrote a different post last night outlining everything I've felt and been through because of this situation, if you haven't read it, maybe that may give some insight as to where she is right now.
I am just wondering one thing about your situation because you mentioned a few things that resonate with ours.
Did you make her constant promises to change what was going on, but then didn't read any of the books or go to counseling? If so, that's what is drawing me to the edge: All the "broken promises" to change. Even though my mind says that he wants to, he doesn't. My Dad was an alcoholic and I've spent most of my life looking for someone who wouldn't let me down. So when my husband "breaks his word" (in my eyes) it causes the deepest wounds one can imagine. But his inability to change is most likely because he doesn't know how to without someone's help besides mine. And I'm okay with that because I have no idea where to go with these problems. They are bigger than me, that's for sure.
Anyway, maybe that's why she left. Lord knows that's why I am ready to leave. It's not because I want to. I LOVE HIM SO MUCH! But I am seriously considering it as a wake up call. Nothing else has worked (i.e. begging, fighting, crying, silence, ignoring him, threatening divorce...) But I am hesitant to issue the wake up call because of our oldest son (4 1/2) who would be devastated if I booted his Daddy out to live with Mommy and Daddy or the firehouse. And since Mommy and Daddy "trained" him into the "sex is bad" issues, so that's not the best place to send him.
Anyway, I will pray for you and your wife to work things out. I know where she is right now mentally and emotionally. It sounds as though you two could still work it out. Don't give up if you love her!!! Because if you do, it will just reinforce her miserable feelings of failure. If she loves you still, please keep after her. (ever heard of a PajamaGram? Check it out. It was the best romantic present he ever sent to me! Beats flowers anyday. Perhaps also a mailed letter or two telling her what you are reading or learning about how to make things better. Those would all mean something to me if my husband did it...)
I've already decided I'd never marry again if we do end up divorced. It DEFINATELY does take 2 to have problems and if I couldn't work it out with a man I love so much, I just don't think I'm meant for marriage. Bottom line is that I blame myself, maybe not for the "problem" itself, but for not being able to be a better, more understanding, gentle wife who could have gotten him through all this to the greener grass on the other side.
I wish you well. Thanks so much for writing. It is always good to know you are not alone. Who knows, I may soon share this website with my husband and see what he thinks. You writing is very compelling to read. There's a resonance there...
No, it's not that, that I can percieve. He says he does enjoy sex--not that an outsider could tell if they were watching. It's just that he doesn't seek it out. He could go weeks and never even ask...it's always me that says "hey you, don't you think it's been long enough!" And usually I get REALLY mad because the longer it takes us to get together and make love the more I feel rejected and let down that he "doesn't find me attractive."
It's a double edge sword at times....but deep down I know he does love me--and I love him...
You husband really doesn't truly know what he is doing to you and the relationship.
Yes, she asked me to read things and do things. I did make promises and did try to make things better. Often they would get better and then return back. I was wrong. I should have listened and UNDERSTOOD what she was saying.
You really can't change your husband. Just like I can't change my wife and make her come back to me. It just won't happen. No one can make him change. He has to change himself. If and when you talk with him about sex, don't wait until it's just before bed time. Try to find a time when everything is relaxed and you're both having a good time.
I really don't know what to tell you to tell your H, because my wife tried everything -- I just didn't get it. But I do know that pushing and making him feel that he's failing will only push him further away.
Personally, I like to have the "chase". I like the challenge. I want it to be my idea, but if I feel that I'm being pushed or I better do this or else -- it'll never happen.
More than likely there are other problems in your R. Mine were finance and general communications. A good counselor can help you figure those out too.
I understand that you want to leave. I really do and I don't blame my wife for leaving. But be careful, threats and leaving may not work in your favor. It may be a wake up call for your H, but it might backfire too. Just make sure you can live with it either way. Be prepared. Divorce is a terrible thing. Just the tought that I might happen scares me to death.
Thanks for your prayers and I will be praying for you, your H, and family. I hope that my marriage will make it, but I can't make my wife return. She tells me that she loves me, that I have been a good husband and friend, but that she can't continue life as we have. I do love her and have no plans on giving up hope. However, I cannot push her or it'll just push her further.
I have written her a letter and have told her about the changes I've made in my life. Her question is, "Why now? Why didn't you do this years ago?" I don't know why I didn't wake up sooner and I'm very sorry that I've caused her this pain and hurt all of this time. If I could change it, I would.
I would really like to go home, take her upstair, and jump her bones. I'd make love to her like I've never done before. In a strange way, her doing this makes her very sexy. However, I think I would be rejected if not arrested.
You need to keep strong and confident. Please don't take all blame yourself for the sexual issues. You very well may have blame for other issues; like how you have communicated with him about the sex issues. But most of the sex issue is his problem. He may or may not have a physical issue like low testostrone. It's a problem that's hard for a man to accept. It's also hard for a man to accept that he has a "low desire". It was for me. Men aren't suppose to have this problem. Also, he may just be too "pig headed". It's become a battle -- you push, he pulls away. It could be all of the above.
If your husband is like me, asking "hey you, don't you think it's been long enough!" will only turn him off and getting mad will only make it worse.
Again, if your husband is like me, he does love you and finds you attractive. He just doesn't know how to break this "cycle".
Get the SSM book and read it!!!!! Do it now!!!! Not all of it will apply, but it will help you understand him better. If you can get him to read it, it will help him understand you.
There another book that might help you too -- The 5 Languages of Love.
Also, be careful of the advice you get here. I may be completely off base from where you're at. You have to learn as much as you can and make up your own mind. However, I've found that the posts on here to generally be very helpful. It's also a great place to vent!!
I don't know if your H has whore/madonna or not, but mine does. He also enjoys sex....but would never seek it out with me.
The post you wrote that I'm responding to I could have written myself.
I tried addressing this issue for nearly two years before I found out (just a year ago) that my H was actually having his sexual needs met online.
I would ask for sex, and get rejected. I would initiate sex, he'd ignore me. I had NO idea that all along, he was going online....and ignoring my needs.
Unfortunately killing the computer would be the only way to guarantee he wasn't going online. BUT (big BUT) if he has whore/madonna...he'll just get the fix elsewhere and still not turn to her unless he's treated how to deal with it...and taught to literally think differently about sex and his wife.
Putting the computer into an open place...won't do anything either. My H took every opportunity I wasn't around...to go online. He only got brave enough to go online when I was home...when I was sleeping...and that was just before he was discovered.
Anyway...Passionate, your H's background is very similar to the one that my H and Heywre's H had. No physical displays of affection between the parents, sex wasn't talked about, it was thought of as dirty...etc, etc, etc. So it is possible he has a version of it.
It seems to me that he'll go for it and not turn you down...but I'm sooooo familiar with what it's like to not have your H ever initiate, it just kills you doesn't it? My H is having to learn how to do that for me now (we will be married 4 years tomorrow). The frustrating thing is...you know you can have sex, but it's always up to you....and you know that if you wait for him to come to you and initiate....you'll wait until your hair turns grey.
So...you've been to a pastor, which IMPO...probably wouldn't have the tools to help someone with this (if he does in fact have this). The two counselors...simply may not have picked up on it if pertinent facts weren't given. I mean, until I made the discovery that I did about my H's online activity...I bought his lines (almost) that he just "never thought about sex".
Can I ask you to consider doing something? Put a keylogger on your computer. This will either clear him of getting his needs met elsewhere, OR it will give you a clearer picture of what exactly you are dealing with. If you need a recommendation for a good one I can give you one....my e-mail is also over on Heywre's thread.
You've been dealing with problems for a while with your husband. You've said that he has the "Whore/Madonna Syndrome". What kind of treatment is done to help with this problem?
Can just staying off the internet and avoiding porn solve the problem?
Putting a keylogger will only catch him, right? But I guess that's the first step. Then what do you do with that information?
