Ok...one of the things that a truly remorseful wandering spouse needs to do is have complete transparency...that includes giving you full access to his cell phone. Erasing the logs n'stuff like that is a no, no. You need to talk to him about that. If he has nothing to hide then why erase the log? Things like that CAUSE triggers in betrayed spouses.
You do have access to the phone bill don't you? I mean, most cell phone companies have the ability to look at the logs online. When we had t-mobile the log was virtually live...as soon as a number was dialed or received you could view it. Not all are that quick, but many of them allow you this access. You should at the minimum have that. That is one of the ways of providing you with comfort while you build trust.
I'll fess up about something too. After I found out what my H did I signed him up online (without his knowledge). I got his cell phone while he was showering...retrieved the text message that had the password (because when you sign up on line they usually text you a password) and was able to view his activity...without his knowledge. This was invaluable to me when it came to rebuilding trust in him. After a time we switched carriers and we are now with Sprint...he knows I have access online now.
Honestly, this is something you need to discuss with your H. At this point, if he's truly trying to rebuild your trust....he needs to understand that erasing things like phone logs, or internet history....is a BIG no, no when it comes to rebuilding your trust.
That's not to say he's doing anything...but it's not condusive to building trust...it is in fact considered a red flag. It's a tool you can use also to help you avoid these triggers you've been experiencing all day long.
He has his cell with him all the time and, no I don't have access to his log - he cleans it off his phone every night (which makes me wonder all the more) but its something he's done for a while now, since he discovered that is how I found out about the OW
Did you ever ask him why he does this? I don't want to scare you, but for me, this raises all kinds of red flags. He who has nothing to hide, hides nothing.
It has always been a BIG issue with him - not so much about who he was calling but more about his "privacy". In all due fairness, he has always been strong about each one having their privacy (i.e. he doesn't open mail addressed to me, won't dare go into my wallet or purse) I for one couldn't care less if he did, its just always been the way he was, long before the A. And we have talked to the C about it, there is a part of him that feels he will lose himself if he reveals all. I know that sounds corny but he is having some real trust issues, not only with me/women but also with himself. We have a lot of deal with here other than just the A
Having said that, I know that I should have access, and I did for quite some time but I told him that's where I got the information. And I told him because I was pretty sure he would do exactly what he is doing now. Not because I figured he was screwing around again but because I don't want to snoop anymore, it drives me nuts (probably more so than not knowing)
I have brought this issue up and it is one that he just won't budge on, he gets really defensive and I just don't want to go there right now, we just have too many other things on our plate.
I totally understand what you are saying and, yes, it would make me feel better. But, if he really wanted to, he could just take certain calls off his phone and give me the rest of it, that wouldn't do much good now would it? I have tried to get a hold of his phone when he's been in the shower or something and the calls are just the usual ones, no OW or "curious" numbers so I tend to believe him that nothing is happening.
Interestingly enough, the C and I were talking about trust today and my trouble with it. He came to the conclusion it wasn't about me trusting H so much as it was about me trusting ME!! Hmmm, have to think about that one. Maybe he has a point
As for going online, H cut that ability off and he doesn't get a full printout of his bill, no logs, just the amount which tells me nothing. I really don't know how to approach the whole "I want to see your phome bill from now on" subject. As much as I know it would help me build trust, what it might do to destroy what we've built up so far might be worse.
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
Ok Heywyre...I do get your C's point about you trusting you. Often we as betrayed spouses don't trust our own judgement again...and that can be a difficult thing to deal with.
BUT...your H not giving you access online to the phone bill, or to his phone log....BZZZZZZZZZZZZ Nope! His defensivness when you bring this issue up is yet another red flag. I'd say ask for his cell phone when he walks in tonight...but he will probably already have cleared the log. Does he also keep his phone locked? If so...another red flag. You need to at the very minimum insist on having online access to the phone account.
Let me put it really simply....there is NO room for privacy in a marriage....EXCEPT in the bathroom. Many people mistake "privacy" for secrecy. If he's not doing anything wrong with using his phone...then there is no reason to not give you access, just as there is no reason for you not to give him access...transparency runs both directions. You have three red flags right off the bat with this phone situation. #1 he erases the logs, #2 he doesn't allow you access online, #3 he doesn't receive detailed bills. Those are all things to not allow you to see his activity....strike 1, 2, 3!!! Those are all behaviors that indicate HIDING something as well.
You should both have access to each others phones....and ALL internet accounts (e-mails, IM's, Blogs...whatever.) If he wants privacy...he can write his thoughts in a diary.
My H has learned this is simply the way it is....if we are both open books, there is no reason for mistrust to creep in.
You REALLY need to address this issue...I'm sorry, I'm pissed off for you that he's doing this. Yes, he COULD use another phone, he COULD use a LAN line...but he wouldn't have to bother doing that if you aren't able to view the phone activity.
I know you don't need to be hearing this stuff right now...your mind is going nuts as it is...and I'm sorry for that, but this is an important issue.
If you go to http://www.survivinginfidelity.com and view the BB's there...you'll see what an important issue this is. This is a wonderful website, but that one deals specifically with infidelity.
I hear ya - but, quite frankly, I don't know if I am really up to the whole argument that will ensue once I open that can of worms. I really don't know if I have the strength to do it
But, I suppose you are right, something has to be done to build that trust back and he's not doing it is he.
I have to think about how to approach this one - could be touchy
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
You may not be up to addressing this tonight...but it DOES need to be addressed. I know this may not be your way of doing things...but for me, this would be one of those situations where I would ask my H, would you rather share this info with me....or lose me?
Here is a list of the "signs of cheating" off of the website I recommended.
Secretive phone calls Unreachable by phone Unexplained numbers on phone bill If you call their cell phone and get the call waiting beep...they say they weren't using the phone. Never leaves the house without their cell phone/pager Hang up calls or someone always saying they've got the wrong number when you answer Hiding cell phone or pager Strange numbers on pager ( could be codes) Hiding cell phone/home phone bills/credit card statements Phone bills changed from detailed to normal Acting different( short tempered, distant, defensive, etc.) Neglecting chores at home Picking fights over trivial things in order to get you to leave the house, or so they can leave the house Accusing YOU of cheating Withdrawing from you/family/friends Pointing out YOUR flaws Telling you that you'll talk about your relationship concerns when it's more "convenient" Little input into future plans with you Telling you your concerns about the relationship are "all in your head" Avoid any conversation with you other than basics ( "when's dinner", etc.) The " I love you, but I’m not IN love with you " talk New interest in exercise/diet More time at the gym Sleeping ALOT New cologne/perfume New wardrobe Suddenly carrying breath fresheners( gum, mints, etc.) with them constantly New password protection on computer Secret e-mail accounts Up on computer to all hours Closing dialogue windows on the computer when you walk into the room Erasing computer history after every use Unexplained purchases on credit card ATM withdrawals at unusual locations Extra mileage on the car Errands that should take 1/2 hour take much longer Claims to do things they've never done before ( shop, etc.) Buying expensive flowers or gifts for no reason ( if they've not done that before) Getting a detailed daily itinerary from you so you won't cross paths Leaves early for work or comes home late more Claims to work overtime, yet no overtime on checks Mentioning a "friend" but never introducing you Too many visits to "friends" The he's/she's just a friend story Lying about where they've been or whom they are with Coming home late saying they " just lost track of time" Regular friends to both of you acting weird or embarrassed around you Offers to go to the store when they usually wouldn't Sends you to the store when they could easily go themselves Unknown cigarette butts in ashtrays Passenger seat position changes Changes in sexual behavior with you (may be more or less frequency) or different techniques Hiding Viagra Hiding condoms
As you can see...phones are at the top of the list.
H just called - just arrived in town and should be home in about 1˝ hours. Said after he talked to me earlier, he turned his cell off and put it in his briefcase. He then walked to the mall and had something to eat, checked his phone and there was a message from me and "a message from a blocked number, but they didn't leave a message". I never said a word because the "blocked number" was me to see if he would actually say anything about it, and he did, so that's good.
He told me he loved me and that he wants to hear all about my day when he gets home. He asked how I was, and I said "good, now that I know you are back home" and he said "well, I've been ok all day. everything is fine"
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
I'm glad you finally heard from him...but this phone thing really does need to be addressed.
Here is the list of things the cheating spouse needs to do. It's listed in many, many books...and most therapists will back this up as well.
In order for your marriage to successfully survive these are some things that your spouse must do:
He must be totally honest with you about everything He must answer every question that you ask truthfully and fully. He must do everything in his power to prove to you that you are the one that he wants to be with. He must prove his love to you...he must be patient, gentle, compassionate and understanding. He must feel your pain. He must fully understand the devastation that he caused you. He must accept full responsibility for his actions. He must stop all contact with OP and not try to protect them. He must reassure you that it is OK to ask questions. He must reassure you that you will not drive him away by doing the things that are necessary to heal. He must recognize when your struggling or experiencing a trigger and comfort you. He must be able to tell you how sorry he is and show you. He must re-enforce to you, that you are not responsible. He must put his own feelings of guilt and shame aside and help you heal first. He must reconnect emotionally, mentally, and physically with you and stay connected. He must work on rebuilding trust. No secrets. No privacy. He must be willing to seek counseling. He must learn what is and is not acceptable when communicating with the opposite sex...he must establish boundaries and not cross them.
Obviously I hilighted those things in red that this phone issue directly ties to. I hope he gets it.
Ya know...if you don't have the book "After the Affair" you might pick that up. It outlines all of this stuff too...ask him to read it. It actually is a good book, I found it quite helpful for my own healing...but it gives what needs to be done after the affair for the betrayed spouse to heal....both work for the betrayed spouse to do, and what the wandering spouse needs to do and what they should expect of their betrayed partner. Do you think at a minimum he'd be willing to read it?
Well, for the most part, he is doing all those things, other than the "secrecy" thing and he does seem to be trying to overcome that.
I know it has always been a trigger for me and I also know I have to address it. Whether or not I want to go there tonight is another story. I think I might want to just sit on things for a couple of days as we will both be tired by the time he gets home and I would just like to have a cup of tea, enjoy each other's company and go to bed. I'm already exhausted from today and it's only 6:30
Thanks for the lists GEL. I have copied them and WILL bring them to his attention in the next couple of days - its going to be tough, but I know it IS something I have to do
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
I don't expect that you would be up to dealing with this tonight, it's better to do this when you are prepared. He may be doing a great many of those other things on those list...but this one thing can be enough to prevent trust from building because it's a constant trigger for you.
