Well, H and I did end up discussing this a little a few nights ago. Turns out he is hesitant to go b/c of my sister. He is convinced that we fight/argue whenever she is around, or any of my family for that matter. He thinks my entire family wants me to leave him, etc. So, since my sister is going to be in Las Vegas, he doesn't want to go.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Tell him... "honey, I hear you. But if you and I are going to be married until we die, then, WE have to figure this out. Let's go and show them wrong. Let's you and I do this together. You and Me. Me and you. Fck 'em if they can't take it."
Be on his team, Heather. I know what it is like to come up against a family. He's worried. He should be. Now... go, TOGETHER, and change the perception.
His statement tells a lot. You have a much more profound influence over him than you give yourself credit for. He doesn't show his worry and concerns in the way you want to see it, but it certainly seems that he is feels them and it bothers him.
I am going to agree with Corri that you should convince him to go, but for a slightly different reason. Assure him, as Corri suggests. Then if you get the slightest hint of an improper or controversial statement concerning your H from any of your family members, I think you need to directly confront them on it. Tell them you do not appreciate their statements, you are married to your H and intend to stay that way, and that you will not allow them to come between you two any more. I strongly suggest you do this in front of your H. Leave no uncertainty about where your loyalties lie. This could go a long way toward repairing the bond with him.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I think that Corri and Cobra make some very good points.
He is convinced that we fight/argue whenever she is around, or any of my family for that matter. He thinks my entire family wants me to leave him, etc.
The way you phrase this it appears to me that, while your H may FEEL that way (his feelings are important), the reality in your eyes is a bit different. Do you think you argue MORE when your family is around? If so, why? and if not, why do you think your H perceives it that way?
The above questions are in NO WAY to contradict the ideas of Corri and Cobra. For me it is just to understand the problem better. If the arguments with you and your H are caused by your family, then YOU need to deal with them and you and H can approach this together. If you do not argue more with family around, then how to handle his perception may require different work. If you do argue more but it turns out that your H starts the arguments, then it will take more work on your part. The point is to get a workable strategy to make a trip with H and your sister a successful trip!
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I read Corri's, Cobra's and Nops posts last night and decided right away that it was great advice. So, I called H and told him that I'd been thinking more about it and I pretty much said verbatim what Corri suggested-that if we're gonna be together forever, then we need to face problems together and that I think we should go to Las Vegas and have a good time and if H feels we argue more when my family is around, let's go prove it wrong. H focused for a moment on the fact that I said 'IF' we are going to be together forever, although he kind of laughed and didn't dwell on it. Then the focus shifted to how hard it is for him to think about going out of town and being away from the kids when he's already out of town. I don't know, I've never travelled much, but for those who have perhaps you can sympathize with my H a little more than I can. To me, it sounds like deflection. But to someone who somewhat regularly has to go out of town for weeks at a time, maybe it truly is difficult to think about scheduling voluntary trips away from home and kids. I don't know.
Cobra, my family would never say anything bad about H to me or in front of H. The most they have ever done is sympathized with my plight and have tried to ask questions 'Heather, how much longer are you going to put up with this?' or 'I just don't see where he's ever going to change his ways' or 'He sees the fault in everything you do but refuses to see the fault in his own ways'. In times of huge frustration, but mostly in my defense, my sister will say he's immature or that I could do so much better. They don't say that because they don't like him-they say that because of his behavior, which they have all witnessed first hand, not just through my accounts. Many of those things are things that you've all asked me here. Would you say you want me to leave my H? My guess is that none of you straight out think that. To question and disagree with someone's behavior doesn't mean you're forever writing them off as a schmuck. My feelings are that H is insecure, he knows he's shown his butt to my family on more than one occasion, but for some reason wants to blame them.
Fearless, no, I don't think we argue more when my family is around. There are more schedules and agendas to juggle though and H seems to feel like my sister runs the show when she is around. In my opinion, so what, it's not like we are anal planners or anything where we have all these ideas of things to do and then my family comes along and has to have everything their way. If they suggest going somewhere and we go, H feels like he didn't have a say in the matter. Also, last time my sister was here, it was like he was anticipating the worst. He picked a fight with me two days before her arrival by telling me I treat my son like crap, that I favor my daughter, etc. Then while she was here he wouldn't really speak to me, wouldn't go out to dinner with us as we had planned (we'd even arranged in advance for his family to watch the kids so that we could go to dinner). He wouldn't address me, would barely answer my questions, etc. It made my sister very uncomfortable and she couldn't wait to go home. She kept telling me she didn't understand how I could live that way and that there was so much tension she could barely stand it. He was a total jerk and I have yet, honest to god, see anything that I did to bring it on even though he claims I did. So, no, I don't agree that we argue more when my family is around. I think H acts like a jerk when my family is around and then he sees how people react to that and takes it personally as though he's done everything in his power to make everyone feel welcome and they just don't appreciate it. My family does not hold grudges and has said all along that if I told them H was treating me right then they would forgive and forget. Because H has never really owned up to his poor behavior and given me a true apology for a lot of that crap, it's difficult for them to feel the same way about them that they used to. But even still, they definitely don't want to see our family torn apart.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
In my opinion, so what, it's not like we are anal planners or anything where we have all these ideas of things to do and then my family comes along and has to have everything their way. If they suggest going somewhere and we go, H feels like he didn't have a say in the matter.
Well maybe look ahead to the trip in LV and decide some things that you and H would want to do. What would be ONE thing that you think your H would definitely like to do out there? Maybe plan a surprise day trip or evening together. TELL your sister ahead of time that you and H have some plans and make sure you stick to them.
But to someone who somewhat regularly has to go out of town for weeks at a time, maybe it truly is difficult to think about scheduling voluntary trips away from home and kids.
Yes It is!! I am a consultant traveling every week. People ask me why I don't just stay over more weekends. They do not get that I just want to get out of a hotel and be in a HOME. Plus I have spoken with many other consultants and they feel the exact same way. Two guys I worked with say that their wives want to go out to dinner on Friday night when they get home. They would LOVE to just stay at home but would usually go out because they understood that their wives had been HOME for the whole week. Anyway... my point would be that being empathetic and letting your H know that you understand it is inconvenient, a pain in the azz, and not his idea of a perfect weekend however you would really appreciate the time with him. Take the IF out and tell him that you are GOING to spend the rest of your life together and things ARE going to get better.
Good Luck!!
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Well maybe look ahead to the trip in LV and decide some things that you and H would want to do.
That would be an excellent idea if he agreed to come, but he's not.
Two guys I worked with say that their wives want to go out to dinner on Friday night when they get home. They would LOVE to just stay at home but would usually go out because they understood that their wives had been HOME for the whole week.
See, but those guys GO. They go because they see their wives' points of view too....my H seems to only see his own. I am empathetic to a point...it's just that there has to be some compromise, ya know? Just some give and take. H and I rarely spend time alone together so I think there's quite a bit of room for give on his part. He values family time over all else and since our lives are based around our kids, I think I've given quite a bit more on the matter than he has. It's not even about agreeing to do something he doesn't want to do, although once in a while that would be nice too just because it would tell me he loves me enough to put my needs above his own. It's about him not valuing time with me enough to make it a priority....I feel taken for granted and unimportant. So, even if he regularly agreed to time alone with me, if his heart wasn't in it, it wouldn't be enough. My H is sort of narrow in his view....like if I want to do something my way and he wants to do it his way for instance. He'll insist on his way saying that I'm so willing to ignore what he wants and do things my way-he honestly doesn't see that the other side of what I want is what he wants and that I could say the same about him. He just doesn't get it. Recently, because H is out of town, I had to pick out the faucets for our bathroom remodel project. I got faucets with the porcelain handles b/c I thought it would look nice. H had a fit, PORCELAIN HANDLES?! Why would you do that? Do I have to make a checklist of every possible thing you might think of and then make sure I address each one to assure that my opinion is considered?! His reaction was ridiculous. So, gets what? I have to send the handles back and get plain chrome. It's silly. The guy doing the work on the bathrooms said, 'he won't even notice'. Yeah right! My H has an opinion on EVERYthing. Seriously. And not to honor his opinion, from his perspective, is to say 'f you I'm doing what I want'. He doesn't get it that I have to get what I want SOMEtimes and it doesn't mean that I'm saying f you....it just means that whatever it is happens to be important to me and I really want to have it my way.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
IMO, you are treading on dangerous ground here. You have stated a good argument why your H should own up to his actions, why your family is justified in wanting to protect you, why he should own up to his actions so your family can forgive him, and plenty more reasons I am sure. But you know what? None of that matters! The bottom line is either your H or your family. This is a classic power struggle and one that dysfunctional families fall into ALL THE TIME and YES, YOUR FAMILY IS DYSFUNCTIONAL.
Why is that important? Because your family is guilty of splitting. They are driving a wedge between you two, just as a child will ask one parent for permission to have a cookie, does not get it, and goes to ask the other. In the kid’s eyes he did not do anything wrong. One either parent’s eyes. Neither did anything wrong. Yet an argument will ensue.
The parent need to agree to stand together and not be split. You need to decide to either stand with your H and not your family, or you might as well D. Even listening to your family’s complaints about your H, no matter how valid and sound they may be, will cause you to split with your H. The thing is that you may not feel like you are splitting, but he certainly feels like you are.
Remember that you did not want to go to his office because you think he had bad mouthed you to the whole company? You would feel very uncomfortable walking into his office, not knowing what others might be thinking of you, what he might have said to them. How does that differ from this situation?
Think of another example. Say your child is grown, has kids and is now divorcing. Whose side are you going to take, your child’s or the spouse? No matter what your child may have done right or wrong, I would think a mother will ALWAYS side with her child, right? THAT is loyalty and devotion. I think your H wants the same from you, just as you want that from him.
I am going to change my advice to you because I think this whole issue of splitting is going to take some time for you to come to terms with. If you want to go to Vegas, offer to take the kids, I have not been but I hear there are lots of family things to do there. That can be your compromise to him. Ask him if he will tolerate a dinner or something like that with your sister, then spend the rest of the trip without her, just you, your H and your kids.
Seriously think about this splitting thing. He is not reacting as he does for no reason. Even if he is 100% guilty of instigating the whole thing, you are still going to have to decide whose side you are on. There will be plenty of times yet to come that he sees things differently than your family. Don’t let something that seems so insignificant to you now grow into something that can and WILL destroy your marriage.
