Had a great night, my niece is awesome, what a great musical. The kids had a blast. Went to eat with the cast afterwards. My kids loved every minute. W called while we were out to say goodnight. The difference in her call earlier and tonight was.., night and day, no pun intended. She was definitely putting some distance between us compared to earlier. Whatever. These posts by AmyC made my night. I thought I would put them here as a reminder to keep my shoulder to the wheel.
"If I can leave you with anything now it is simply this:
The heart of a walk-away wife, no matter how "done" she says she is and even appears to be, her heart can be turned back to her husband in all it's fullness.
You don't have to look far for proof."
and this one really hits home as I know the only reason she hasn't filed is lack of funds.
If you want evidence that your wife's feelings can one day change, I am proof because there can't BE a woman more gone from a marriage mentally and emotionally than I was. The only reason I didn't file back then was because I couldn't afford to. But I shredded us in every other area that existed, I assure you.
What I would implore you to do is consider that sometimes the most effective way to wage a war is from a seated (and silent) position.
So I will keep on keeping on. The changes I've made were necessary, for me and permanent. I could give up, walk away and start over fresh with someone else armed with the self-knowledge I've developed through reading DR, these boards and applying the lessons learned. It would be a lot easier. Yet I want to do this right for all the right reasons. I don't have to explain it further to anyone reading so far. Everyone here knows why we keep on keeping on even when friends and family say to walk away and start over fresh with someone else.
Well, I'm beat, my kids and some friends are having a guitar hero battle. It's a house full of laughing kids. I know its late but tomorrow they can sleep in. I'm going to go chill and enjoy the show. Because this is why we DB, if I'm going to work this hard at something, take my lumps day in and day out, I'm going to enjoy the perks..., seeing my kids happy.
Hey Tyler - sounds like you had a pretty good night. Nothing like a house full of laughing kids to make you appreciate life right?
Yes, we all know why we hold on when everyone else says to let go a million times. There is something inside us, that no one else can feel except us. WE know when the right time is to let go, ONLY us. I know because I am going through this for the second time around. If someone would have told me 5 years ago this is what my life held for me, I would have said "no way, I will be outta there the first time". Well, I wasn't was I? and here I am now, the second time around and I am still hanging in there. Why? I could give you a whole heck of a lot of reasons but why bother, it is different for everyone. All I know is that I am not ready to throw in the towel just yet. I see improvements and, for the most part, they are starting to become more than the bad parts, and it hasn't been like that for a long, long time. We are going for C, something I NEVER thought my H would do. He is reading books about A's and relationships. THAT in itself blew me away. So I know he is wanting to make the changes and is trying to work towards fixing this mess. We both have our faults. But we also both have to leave them behind us and carve a new path for us to walk down. It is painstakingly slow but at least we are moving in the right direction
I wish you the same
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
I've been going through a weird mind bender the last few days. I've been really pissed. I was thinking about things and started to get pissed.
The thing that set me off was a picture a friend sent me of my buddy and myself a couple of years ago. It instantly took me back to that time, my eyes are almost pure red, I look exhausted, in the pic I'm smiling but seeing the picture I "felt" again the way I felt during that time..., exhausted, bone tired. It was taken in the middle of a 3 week period where I was getting by on about 1-2 hours sleep a day or sometimes every other day. Flash forward to now and my present mental state of the last few days.
Let me see if I can paint the mental picture for you guys. She is a stay at home mom. I think that is great and have worked hard to accomodate this situation. I have done things like go 2 or 3 days with little or no sleep so I could work as much as possible, teaching, working my shift and then picking up overtime. I've done this for years. Never once complained, never even crossed my mind. Her biggest, most stressful decision of the day after getting the kids out the door is, do I tan first or workout first? Then there is the uber stress imposed by deciding who and where to meet for lunch. The stress doesn't end there, because she has to be back home by a certain time in the afternoon to make sure she is there when the kids get home from school. God, the pressure cooker she lives in!
God forbid she should stay awake until I get home every now and then to ask how my day went or spend time with me. Screw that. She will be on the phone with her friend when I walk in the door, by the time I get cleaned up and ready for bed, she is "asleep". Must be that intense schedule, takes it out of you. And no, you can't ask her about the emotional affair issue, it's not like that, it's just a really good friend and just because she talks to her for 3-4 hours a day on the phone, asap after waking, numerous calls, texts and e-mails throughout the day and then right before falling asleep, doesn't mean anything or that it's taking anything from us. Then she has the gall to tell me how she "needs" her Friday and Saturday nights out with her friend. She also needs to be able to go out of town when her friend has a business trip, "all" we have to pay for is the ticket, as the hotel and stuff will be covered by her friends business. Oh, and she needs to be able to hang out with her friend as much as possible, Wednesday and Thursday night after church and practice, since she is out there so why not? So let's see, that's what, 4-5 nights a week, plus hours on the phone, texting or e-mailing. Yup. Nothing there could possibly be taking away from our R.
Spend time with me? Plan a night out with me? Sorry, can't do it. Her life is just so hellacious because of me that she can't spend any time with me. But would I mind picking up the tab for all this time with others? Since she really "needs" it?
I'm so fed up with it I could spit. Actually, I could walk away and never look back. I met with my accountant Monday morning, there are some tax things I have to resolve. She was going through my statements and shaking her head. I asked what the issue was and she said, "W really has no problem spending as fast as it comes in, W sends it out.., lets see, nails, tanning, clothes, jewelry, nails again.., if this was a business I would advise you to cut it loose before it sinks you, oh well, it's been that way for years, you allow it". Accountant kept working and didn't say anything else, she didn't need to. Ever since I've been thinking.
What if I was equally yoked? Meaning, what if I was with someone that hustled the way I do? Even better, what if I was with someone that really appreciated the effort I put in to taking care of them and making a life for them?
After I left the accountants office Monday, I was really glad W is in Michigan. I was so pissed off I could hardly drive. Tell me how bad your life is? Cry me a river. All the pressure and stress you're under? Give me a break. Fortunately summer is coming so some of the pressure will be off..., oh wait, then there is the pressure of spending all day at the pool, not lifting a finger to clean anything around the house and bitching at me because the yard isn't maintained. Again, God forbid that it would cross your mind to help me out there, since I'm working my ass off.
This morning she calls to say good morning and ask about extending her stay in Michigan if she can get the airline to cooperate. I was in the middle of getting D9 out the door to practice so I guess I didn't sound overjoyed enough for her so immediately the wall goes up, what crap. I'm in the middle of getting kids out the door, she is going out to lunch with her friends up there and asking me if she can extend her stay, "it will probably only cost around $75.00 to change the ticket". Oh, is that all, well, with all the stress you're under living this hellacious life with me, King Ogre, of course it's no problem. Let me do the 'spending-cash-we-don't-have-right-now-so-you-can-get-what-you-need' happy dance so you won't be made to feel any pressure, or bad in anyway by me.
Tyler, Set up a budget that will allow you to cut down the hours. If that means she has to, the gods forbid, work (oh, what a nasty, nasty word) to pay for her nails and jewels and lunches and coffees...and oh, yes, let's not mention the phone bill...then so be it.
Don't work yourself into an early grave for this woman. You're right. Let her step up and be counted in your marriage. You need time with your kids. You NEED time to decompress. It's medically proven so you just need to sit down, work up a budget (minus all the extras) and have the extra budget handy so she will know how much she'll have to work to continue in her current lifestyle.
Take a break and enjoy the day. I've almost worked myself into an early grave and I'm not going to ever go there again. Temporary tops in work are acceptable, as now when I've just switched jobs, but eventually it'll be a standard work day.
Have some fun today. Get a breath of fresh air and enjoy life!
Wow - that sure was a vent, an amazing one at that - congratulations!!
Now, I can't help but comment on your W's lifestyle - wholly crap!!! I should be so lucky. Sheesh, where does she get off living like a princess and then fliting off to spend time with her friend? Is she bi?
I have to say, after the "A" was discovered in our house, my H started spending A LOT of time with his male friend. I know there was nothing going on sexual, but it was really starting to cause a problem in our R. After all, here I am, at home doing everything (basically like you are) working fulltime, which he works 2-3 days a week and I come home and he's out having coffee with his friend and then has the bloody nerve to say "Can XXX come over for supper tonight?" - and H doesn't cook so you know what that meant. I took it for a while because I felt sorry for his friend (his W died 4 years ago) but give me a break! Then I found out his friend is having an A with his friend's W - do you believe it? I told my H I didn't want anything to do with that situation and that we had enough problems of our own. I also told him that unless he started putting me first, instead of his "friend" there wasn't much use on working on this R. I know that was harsh and he has to have his "time out" but his time out was called avoidance. Basically it came down to spending time with the friend so he wouldn't have to be with me and risk having to talk about the mess we were in. Well, I drew the line and said, at the very least, he would have to give me at least half of his time. That was about 2 months ago and we have made incredible progress now that the "friend" is pretty much out of the picture. H has even said that he doesn't want to spend time with him if he is going to continue on with that "relationship". His friend wanted to go out for supper the other night - the 4 of us - no way! I didn't say anything, just to see what H would say but he made some excuse and said "maybe another time" and then got off the phone and said "I don't want any part of that" - so its good, he is starting to see the bigger picture.
Enough of me, back to you - have you approached her with this "firend" thing and what does she say? I am still in shock as to what she does all day
H and I have always been of the opinion if you are a couple, you both work towards building your dreams (financially and/or sweat labour) she doesn't seem to be doing either
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
OTB, That is exactly what the accountant said as I was leaving. Set it up, tell her what's up and after that, too bad.
Heywyre, She was severely sexually abused as a child, earliest memory is that stuff. Not sure how long it went on but its a mess, basically every kid in the family was abused by this grandparent. He is a monster. As a kid she attempted suicide, was a cutter and to some extent during the last couple of years that we have been going through all the stuff with our R, she really struggled with those issues again. Somewhere in there she told me she doesn't think she is attracted to men, after 4 kids and 18 years of marriage. Great. Because of the way we believe and she was raised, she doesn't believe this is something she can pursue. She has said numerous times that she knows full well she will probably have to live her life alone if we D. DB coach Chuck was aware of the group Exodus International we've been in contact with. Chuck, this group, lots of people associated with the group and I, believe that W can stay in our marriage and our R can be whole, if I do my part in DB'ing and building trust, making a safe place for her here with me. She and this friend both swear there is nothing going on. From what I have read and people I have talked to about this, it is important for her to have same sex friends, to be able to bond with them in a non-sexual manner.
I should say, because of her beliefs she has never pursued a same sex relationship and doesn't pursue anything that would put her in that position. She swears that never in her life has she gone there. Due to statements like that DB Coach Chuck felt that if I can DB properly, she will likely stay. She's almost 40, has made it this far, and it would seem that if things were better with us, she would rather continue in our R, than rip everything apart. This based on her saying that she just wants peace, at this point she doesn't believe she can have that with me, she believes she would have to be alone to obtain this peace.
Our most heated fights have been about this friend thing. She swears there is nothing there. She said at one point, "I'm not a cheater, when are you going to see that?" She sees any question about this as more of me doubting her, being suspicious, and thinking the worst of her. After talking to Jody and Chuck I now understand that given her background, questioning her like that for years just piled on to the internal feeling of being damaged goods that she was carrying due to the abuse. She has worked hard to be a 'righteous' person. As Jody said, "sounds like she is a good girl", so what am I worried about? Nothing now, but for a time I wigged out and questioned everything, thought she was up to something, always expected to catch her fooling around or something. Like I said, I wigged out, but it did a lot of damage. At this point I can see that the friendship isn't the problem, so to speak. Our real problems caused her to turn to this friend. I do see this friendship as taking away from her motivation to fix us, why should she? The emotional intimacy and safety she needs is being met there, so why open up to me again?
So that is the state of the union, or lack there of.
4 hours ago I left my apartment and I left up my response to the quote below without posting it. I wanted to think. Maybe I am so far out in left field and our sitches and life circumstances are too different. Maybe in no way was your wife ever like I was. Fact is, I don't know. But you do. So I have decided to offer you a bird's eye view of my past, before my MLC. Perhaps somewhere in it, you might catch a glimpse of your own wife and realize she might not be as self-centered as you think. If my post has no meaning to you whatsoever, that's fine, too. It was actually therapeutic in a way for me to blast it off like I did. At any rate, I doubt you'll be saving any of these AmyC quotes..... Peace
Quote:
She is a stay at home mom. I think that is great and have worked hard to accomodate this situation. I have done things like go 2 or 3 days with little or no sleep so I could work as much as possible, teaching, working my shift and then picking up overtime. I've done this for years. Never once complained, never even crossed my mind. Her biggest, most stressful decision of the day after getting the kids out the door is, do I tan first or workout first? Then there is the uber stress imposed by deciding who and where to meet for lunch. The stress doesn't end there, because she has to be back home by a certain time in the afternoon to make sure she is there when the kids get home from school. God, the pressure cooker she lives in!
God forbid she should stay awake until I get home every now and then to ask how my day went or spend time with me. Screw that. She will be on the phone with her friend when I walk in the door, by the time I get cleaned up and ready for bed, she is "asleep". Must be that intense schedule, takes it out of you. And no, you can't ask her about the emotional affair issue, it's not like that, it's just a really good friend and just because she talks to her for 3-4 hours a day on the phone, asap after waking, numerous calls, texts and e-mails throughout the day and then right before falling asleep, doesn't mean anything or that it's taking anything from us. Then she has the gall to tell me how she "needs" her Friday and Saturday nights out with her friend. She also needs to be able to go out of town when her friend has a business trip, "all" we have to pay for is the ticket, as the hotel and stuff will be covered by her friends business. Oh, and she needs to be able to hang out with her friend as much as possible, Wednesday and Thursday night after church and practice, since she is out there so why not? So let's see, that's what, 4-5 nights a week, plus hours on the phone, texting or e-mailing. Yup. Nothing there could possibly be taking away from our R.
No doubt about it, your wife sounds spoiled and I think she might even have the idea that she is "entitled" but I have another mental picture to paint for YOU.
How many kids do you have? What were their early years like? Were you working all the time then? If so, and she was home alone with them all day/evening, there is a hell of a lot of stress attached to that. The attitude conveyed in your words above chapped my ass immensely because I lived like this: My husband was working all the time, picking up all the OT he could to support us. Make no mistake it was anything BUT a lavish lifestyle, though. I had a 2 year old when my H and I got married. No "baby daddy" in the picture so there were no every other weekend visits for him to go to. My husband took that kid and raised him and loved him like his own. Then we had our daughter when S was 3. It was decided I would stay home for two reasons: 1) My husband wanted me with them while they were young and 2) any money I could have made would be eaten up by daycare expenses. I got up early with the baby, fed her, changed her, played with her. She went back to sleep. S would wake up, need breakfast, we'd play on the floor with his cars. D would be up again. Then lunch and maybe we'd go do something like go to a park. That was free. By the time my daughter could walk the ducks at the lake knew her and the SPCA petting zoo animals knew my son enough that the damn ostrich chased ONLY HIM every time and he remembers that to this day. In the midst of all that fun there was always trips to the potty, drive-thru's for fries, greasy hand prints to clean off something and noses to wipe. Hell yes, I was tired when we got home. But it was always a good day. H only briefly worked days before going to 2nd shift. Then he got home at 11:30. Oh wait, that was if he didn't go out with the guys for a beer (which would bring a new, fresh hell home). My afternoons then were spent with a pre-schooler and a toddler. We did "aht's and crafts" and made pictures with googly eyes for Daddy to find when he got home. We had SD over and we made hula skirts out of newspaper and ate pineapples. I took them to the dentist, the doctor, the beach, trick-or-treating and to sit on the Easter Bunny and Santa's lap. I juggled the light bill with the rent payment and I made the phone calls for the extensions. Weekends he was off, I can count on one hand the things we did as a family other than eat together when he would grill steaks. He picked out a hamster for D's 4th birthday. He taught S how to ride a bike. He had one hand on the back of that bicycle seat and a beer in the other hand.
You worked all the time and were exhausted??? Try raising kids by yourself. Your wife has a friend? Her brain would be the equivalent of strained peas if she didn't. Besides, who left her alone for so long?
As kids get older and enter school and have activities, they dont need us "stay at home" moms so much. By then, though, maybe like me, your wife didn't know WHO the hell she was OTHER THAN MOM. Her hair, nails, tanning etc...theyare patches. They fill a void.
Oh, I'd just friggin' betcha....
Don't question why a woman like that would end up in MLC or any other crisis.
And you think it all passed when the kids started school? HAA! There's housework, homework, friend problems to listen to...places to go, groceries to buy, clothes to wash. Who washes and puts away all your clothes? Do you sleep in a clean bed? Is there dust on top of your entertainment center? Do you have pets? Who takes your children to church? Who read/reads with them? Who prays with them? Who goes to school conferences and makes sure their immunizations are up to date, who signs them up for their activities...?
Now is not the time to get up on a soapbox and talk about all you sacrificed over the years to give. Sometimes in all that "giving" you can really be losing and never even see it til someone (in this case, your wife) pulls the pin outta the grenade.
Instead of self-righteousness, take a week off of work. Send your wife away to a spa or something.
Then walk a mile in her shoes.
When she gets back, I guaran-damn-tee you you'll want to go get your nails done and chit-chat with a friend, too!
How'd things get to this point, tyler?
THAT is what you need to ask yourself honestly. I get the feeling your wife has been on her own for a long time and you just noticed it when she pulled the rug out from under you.
If I am out of line, I apologize but something in your post just really fired me up.
You feel like a candle in a hurricane Just like a picture with a broken frame Alone and helpless like you’ve lost your fight But you’ll be alright, you’ll be alright
Chorus Cause when push comes to shove You taste what you’re made of You might bend ‘til you break Cause it’s all you can take On your knees you look up Decide you’ve had enough You get mad, you get strong Wipe your hands, shake it off Then you stand, then you stand
Life’s like a novel with the end ripped out The edge of canyon with only one way down Take what you’re given before it’s gone And start holdin’ on, keep holdin’ on
Every time you get up and get back in the race One more small piece of you starts to fall into place – yeah
Yeah, then you stand – yeah Yeah, Baby WOO HOO, WOO HOO, WOO HOO- Then you stand – Yeah, Yeah
Up early with the kids, lots of fun ahead in the form of..., yardwork.
Last night I called W around 11:30 my time, 12:30 in Michigan. She was out for drinks with her friends. I called because earlier when she called they were at her friends house and just hanging out, so I thought it was safe to call when I did. I assumed she was staying in at that point, so I would call to say goodnight and see if she had made arrangements for a flight.
This was definitely a test for me. In the past, one of our issues has been, when do we call it a night? I came home once at 4 AM. That started a war. After that we had a loose agreement that Midnight or so was a good time to wrap things up, avoid the closing time issues, still get a night out but it's not an all-nighter. So when I called her and she is just going out at midnight, that was a challenge to keep my cool. This wasn't something I could have a scripted response for as I truly thought they were staying in for the night after our earlier conversation. At first I thought, here we go again, I can't do it, but now that you want to, it's okay?
Fortunately, I was able to put on my game face, stay light, wish her a good night and ask her to let me know as soon as she can about her flight so I can arrange a sitter for Monday instead of Sunday if needed. I ended it on a positive note and that was that.
I was fuming a bit as I sat and thought about how she would be acting towards me at that moment if I was just getting started at midnight. Yet I kept reminding myself of the things Chuck and Jody said to me and the things I know to be true about her. Went upstairs and both of my youngest D's were asleep in our room. The plan was for them to fall asleep in there and then I would carry them to their beds when I was ready to sleep. My plan was to call W, say goodnight, take kids to bed and then pass out myself. I chose to leave the girls asleep in our room and lay there with them. Some of the most restful sleep I've had in a long time.
This morning at 7:30 W calls. She keeps forgetting that we are an hour behind. She apologized, I told her it's okay, I'm up to let the dog out. She talked a bit, even brushing her teeth while on the phone with me. I'm taking this as a positive. For someone who just a week ago didn't even want to talk to me, to call several times to simply chat, even to chat as she is getting ready in the AM, this is a very nice baby step. I did ask how her night went, she responded pretty well. I could tell she was somewhat guarded, as soon as I asked I knew it was dangerous ground. After her response, I said, "cool", and left it at that. In the past I would have asked more, looking for some sign of wrong-doing on her part, if not on her part then on the part of the people she was out with. Not pursuing this beyond a simple 'how was your night' was a new thing and I think I could almost feel her hold her breath, and then start to breath again when I left it alone.
Honestly, with all the work I've been doing on me, this was a lot easier than I thought it would be. Asking how the night went is something I do with my friends, as I'm sure lots of people do. Friend tells you they are planning on going to ______ Saturday. When you talk to them Sunday, you ask how they liked it or how it went. The difference is, with a friend I wouldn't begin the Inquisition.
Even my response to the unexpected turn of events, so to speak. In the past I would have been rattled, and pissed beyond belief. Taking this as another example of her doing whatever the heck she wants but freaking out on me if I were to do the same. Now it just doesn't occur to me. I'm aware enough to know how I WAS or had become, while still being who I AM now.
So we chatted a bit more, I asked her to let me know as soon as she can so I can arrange a sitter. She said, I thought you said it wouldn't be a problem that you would use a personal day, (I could 'feel' the breath holding/tension again, - is he going to give me a hard time about this type thing). I told her, of course I will do that, that's not the issue. I just need to plan for a sitter, tonight I have your mother watching the kids and getting them in bed while I pick you up from the airport, if you change your flight to Monday I might need to line something up if your flight is coming in at their bedtime. That way I can pick you up and we don't have to worry about the kids getting a good bedtime.
I could feel her exhale. I do feel terrible that she believes that I am always going to give her a hard time, almost as my default response. Something Chuck mentioned is that I will possibly have to deal with this for a long time. Avoiding any discussion and simply acting is the only answer. I can tell her all day that things are different, but until she sees it enough, she won't believe. Back to the two things WAW believe about us. That they know us and that we will never change. I have to challenge those 2 beliefs every chance I get.
