I was thinking I could do you a really huge favor and give you a copy of the erotic free verse poem that one of the HD guys I've been e-mailing sent me. There is no way it wouldn't get your wife's attention. It might even make her cry. However, I would only do this if you promised cross-your-heart-hope-to-die style that you would actually initiate sex 3x a week with your wife in the future NO MATTER WHAT!!
I do not think 3x a week is unreasonable because my sister has cervical cancer and when you get radiation for that you have to have sex 3x a week every week afterwards pretty much forever in order to maintain vaginal health and flexibility. My friend who is an oncology nurse who I've been talking to about the issue said it is kind of funny to see the husbands reactions when she tells them about this as they try to mask their glee under a generally calm, sympathetic, supportivehusband-of-cancer-survivor reaction.
So pretend like your relationship has cancer and commit to the cure!
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
MJontheMend But there are times where my wife felt like she had to be the "rock", and indeed she was. Her main complaint is that I'm not the fun, active, lively person I used to be, that I'm just "existing". And in some ways, I agree with her. So instead of GAL, I am working toward being the person I was (more active, involved, etc.) because if I don't, not only will W stay away, but I'll also shrivel up and blow away! By the way, what is a Type 7?
Type 7 is the Enneagram personality type that is curious, oral and fun-loving. Tends to regard most people only as potential playmates except for a few to whom they bond very closely.
Okay, if you guys want some step-by-step directions, here's what you might do. Go on the internet and find a good deal on a weekend getaway in your area. Book it. Go to a mega bookstore and browse the sexuality aisle. Find an appealing book and buy it. Mark the three hottest pages in the book with post-it notes saying something like "Friday night", "Saturday morning". "Saturday evening in the elevator". Mail the book to your wife via express mail. Enclose a printout describing the getaway location and a note saying something like "I'll be at your place to pick you up at 5:00 on Friday.".
P.S. Be sure to make any baby/petsitting arrangements etc. too.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Do not indicate anything along the lines of "I am doing this because I realize how much I love you and miss all that you did for me and I would really like for us to work on our relationship." instead indicate "I am doing this because I was temporarily insane for the entire course of our SSM not to realize how red-hot sexy you are and how very important sex is to me.".
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
GK99 wrote: "I want to be firm in telling her that I do not agree with divorce, especially as a first option. But I do not want to argue with her either. It's a tough spot we're in because if we argue, we just strengthen their resolve to leave. But if we are doormats, they won't respect us. "
Simply state your position regarding the situation. Don't argue or waiver, just make a statement and shut up. If she goes off, listen to her and leave when she is done. No retorts.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I think that the DB coaches are very good also, but I think in your situation, that you are going to need a more aggressive approach than what you may find as the standard DB approach.
So if you do go with a DB coach, I would recommend that you let them know that you desire to take a proactive stance with your wife. One size doesn't fit all, and you need a different size.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Quote: ------------------------------------------------------ I believe he also employed the 180 rules, NOP's do you remember? ------------------------------------------------------
Regarding csw. Yes, he did, and with quite a few added.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Not going to give you any advice as to what to do - obviously I would be treating things differently.
As for the engagement ring ... I don't know about the laws in the USA but in Canada (and we both follow common law) if you are engaged (not married) it depends on who breaks off the engagement. If the gf does, she has to give back the ring, if the guy does she gets to keep it. However, in a marital situation, I am assuming the ring is hers to keep - that would be unless you can justify it somehow (i.e. family heirloom etc.) but even then the chances are pretty slim. Think about it, if the ring is maritial property, I guess her clothes, shoes, purses, make-up all are too right? Do you want her going through your underwear drawer deciding which ones she wants to take with her? Get real - the ring, in all due fairness, is the least of your worries and if this is what you are focusing on, then maybe I can see why she is wanting to leave - your priorities are screwed up!
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
12_51 My heart still goes out to you. But please don't beat yourself up over what is going on. Remember, we can only control ourselves, and we have to be careful to not read into things, either + or -. I know that's hard, because it's part of our nature. For example, my W calls our sep. as a "wake-up call". but I have to make sure I don't put all my hopes on this. After all, I imagine, as may be the case with your W, her emotions may be swinging all over the place. There have been some really good suggestions on this thread, so keep your chin up, and think about how to change YOU!
Please listen to the advice to be strong, direct and unwavering. I am sure that it is tempting to want to be sweet and helpful to your wife in the hopes of drawing her back to you. Try to remember that behavior is not what she needs and wants right now. The key is to remember that the opposite of that sweet behavior is not being a jerk, being cruel or playing games with her. The opposite is to be self-assured, confident in what you want (your wife) and in no mood or position to help her do something that you do not want. I agree with protecting your assets but I would not go down the path of appearing petty, manipulative, punishing, etc. Nickeling and diming about every little thing does not appear strong to me.
I saw you post elsewhere that you wondered why pursuing was "bad" behavior because you said that is what you did during dating. Pursuing when someone does not want your pursuit is the issue. Also pursuing from desperation and fear feels week and needy. Not qualities that usually draw a woman to you. However pursuing in the manner of getting what you want is an entirely different type of pursuit. So the key is to be confident and strong in approaching her. If she says to you that you need to just give up, then needy pursuit would be following her to the door as she is walking to the door and begging her for one more chance while strong pursuit would be saying "I hear you but I have no intention on giving up on you. I love you and want you." while standing still and letting her walk out the door. The latter sends the clear signal that you still want her while letting you keep your dignity. Think about the difference in her mind as she is driving away.
As far as the "permanent" talk, I would not worry about that one bit. Things can and do change. The key is for you to not get drawn into the trap of trying to argue that point with her. The point is that YOU are not giving up. YOU want the marriage to work. YOU want a healthy fun sex life with her. YOU are doing the things for yourself to be a man who will have sex regularly in a relationship. This is the message you want to send to your wife clearly and consistently.
You should not get caught up in doing things to get an immediate positive reaction from her. You should be doing these things to be the person you want to be in a relationship so you can demonstrate a consistency of purpose to her. Keep focused on yourself so that you do not let her action throw you off track.
There is a lot of talk about the 180 concept. The key to that concept is that everyone has different positions from which they need to 180. If you were a jerk, you need to be more willing to listen to her (not be a doormat). If you were meek, then your 180 is to be strong (again, not a jerk but a strong confident man). If your past behavior was to ignore her, then paying attention to her is good. If your past behavior was paying lots of attention to her and doing lots of things for her, then the 180 would be to let her stand on her own 2 feet and not babying her. If you tend to sit on the couch watching TV for hours, then join a gym and get active. If you tend to hang out with the guys for hours on end, then look at picking up some books to read. There are many ways in which you can 180. Try not to pick too many 180s so that you can keep them up and stay consistent. Pick the ones you think will give the most impact to your marriage.
For me, the key is to not over compensate in 180s and do damage. The point is to draw back and pay attention. I will stress keeping consistent and being observant. Watch how she interacts with you and see if there are patterns. That is why acting consistently on your part will help you read her better. If you act the same every day and her reactions to you begin to change, then you will know if you are on the right track. It may take time which is why you need to be observant.
Good Luck.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
12_51 I think the feedback from "fearless" is excellant! We have to remember to watch our needs, and not act off the cuff. As my W said in MC, "You want everything fixed right away. Things take time. I need time." So I pulled back. I am NOT giving up, but I'm not calling nearly as much, I stopped with all the ILY's, and instead focus on neutral issues when not in MC. In short, I'm giving her space. This is a particularly rough time, as my W is going away to a horse show (horses are her business), and won't be back until Sun. I'm giving her room to breath. It's hard, but to be needy and whiney now won't do any good.
