I've been gone for a bit. Things really went sideways in my life. Struggled with depression, got some help for that. I think I did a lot of damage to my R though, while in the midst of the depression. Basically I couldn't stop myself from talking non-stop about our R and how wrong she was for wanting a D. I did have a phone consultation with Jody prior to this and then recently another with Chuck after realizing I had some issues going on and needed some help. I got help for my depression and then contacted Virginia right away to book another consult, this time Jody wasn't available right away so they sent me to Chuck.
I'm still working hard at DB'ing. As recently as Tuesday the W told me how much she can't do this anymore, has nothing left to give and I just need to let her go. She said she doesn't want to wait another 6 months or a year for her feelings towards me to change. She said its hard, and she doesn't want to do it any longer. This conversation came about because I made the mistake of asking her how she was feeling. I was talking about her stomach, (she has been complaining that her stomach is killing her any time she eats or thinks, ie; our R is making her sick). I noticed she was reserved and had her hand on her stomach, so I asked how she was feeling. Big mistake, I really knew it was a mistake when the first thing out of her mouth in response was, "you know what is wrong between us, I can't do this, I don't want to do this, I would be better off alone". All I could think was you gotta be kidding me, I was doing good avoiding R talk since the last blowout on Saturday, (which took the same route, from a different starting point) and I wasn't even thinking about our R, I was wondering how she was feeling physically. I was genuinely confused at first because I was expecting a; my stomach hurts or I'm okay type response regarding her stomach. Not a; our R sucks and is killing me response.
I'm focussed on doing the things Chuck recommened. Making sure that every time we have contact she walks away feeling good about it, that it was a positive. I'm looking for the good in things around me. I'm being a better parent/father. Doing the things that put a pep in my step, that make me happy. I'm watching more comedy, reading more funny stuff, anything that will make me laugh, it relieves stress and I feel a lot better. I was already working out, then I got hurt at work so I had to slow down a bit until my knee is better. Its been almost 3 months of physical therapy, hopefully no surgery. I'm going up against her strongly held beliefs that, 1) she knows me and 2) I'll never change, what changes she does see aren't real.
She has actually said those two things to me numerous times, verbartim. The thing she says the most is that she can see the changes but its too late and they aren't real, its me really trying but I'm not truly changed. It was wild to hear Chuck tell me the things she was or would say to me because he was dead on. That helped because at least I know I'm not alone, similar to Jen_Jam's WAS dictionary thread. The things they say are similar and we aren't alone in hearing them. Others have heard this and perservered. So can I.
So there you have it. The abyss of depression is behind me, I never want to go there again. Did I destroy any shred of my marriage that was left? I sincerely hope not. I know I am committed to my best effort ever. I visualize her coming out from behind that wall that has been built between us and hanging out with me. I visualize her one day tearing that wall down and allowing herself to open up to me again.
I know this much. I don't need her, that is true. I thought I did and it messed me all up. I now know that the truth is, I want her, I would like her to be in my life, I would like our family to be whole, our kids relaxed and centered knowing their life and home is a sure thing. Those are things I would like to have happen, those are things that would be ideal, but life will go on either way.
it is awesome you've come out of D, you are putting yourself together again and doing good things for you. What are you doing to validate her? what does SHE like, what is something she wanted to do before that you didnt' do for her? work on that.
Would she go to MC with you?
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
Hi cat03. I've been working on something Chuck mentioned which is to use the words, I regret. I do regret the way things have gone, although a lot of the things that she lays at my feet now are not entirely true. Rather than argue or defend myself, I simply listen and then say, I regret _____ has caused/made you feel this way. I have to work on making sure she knows I'm not mad or angry. The last few days the most common thing she has said to me has to do with me being "mad" about things or upset.
She wants to go places without me, she doesn't want to spend any time with me. That is pretty much what she wants to do.LOL. She went to a concert with her friend Friday night and next weekend she is going out of town to spend time with a friend in Detroit. I have to work on making sure she knows its cool with me and I don't have any issues with this. Of course I wish she would want to do these same things with me, but its just not how things are at this point.
She won't go to MC with me, no way. I've asked, she said we tried it, (3 sessions and it did suck, the C wasn't very good, lots of, "how did you relate to your mother?" type stuff) and she isn't interested in going back. Part of her resolve to just end this and move on.
We are going to a wedding tonight. I kind of dread these events. It always reminds me of what could have been. What if I would have done it right, from the start, instead of 18 years later? What if I would have known all I know now, then? How much greater would our love be, how much deeper would our connection be, how much more peaceful would our life and the lives of our children be?
A friend told me that the fastest way to lose your mind is to look at your life and ask, what if?
I think he is right.
So what do I do? Act as if things are great right now? I could start over with someone else, sans baggage and have a great relationship or I can suck it up and make this the relationship it should have always been and will always be, now that I know? I believe that is my only option. This week has gone well. Only a tid bit of a discussion last night. Regarding a shirt she was wearing when she came home from the concert. I told her that she would have asked me about it if I left wearing one thing and came home wearing another. She didn't want to answer, saying she did nothing wrong and never had so this is just like all the past stuff where I would grill her about her activities for no reason, always suspicious. I tried to point out to her times where she had asked me about a shirt or something that co-workers had given me as birthday presents and such. I told her that to me it was the same thing, I left wearing one thing and returned wearing another. She finally said that when they got to the concert the buttons on her shirt kept popping open, so she borrowed her friends tank top to go under her shirt so she wouldn't have to worry about being exposed if buttons came unbuttoned. Good enough. For her though, it was more of the same old stuff. She said that maybe I need to accept that I might never be able to ask a 'normal' question, even if it is something she might ask me, just because of the damage. She said that questions like that, no matter how well I might explain it or how much sense it makes or that she would ask the same thing, those questions still feel like the same old stuff and cause her to "feel" the same way, ie; she just wants to get away.
I've been successful at leaving it alone for the rest of the day. In the past I would have obsessed over this but this is part of proving her wrong in her big 2 assumptions about me per Chuck. Also, letting it go gives me a lot of peace which is a bigger issue to me.
She went shopping for an outfit for the wedding tonight. Called to ask about money, talked for a bit, made a point to end positive so she walks away from the contact thinking good things about me. I told her I can't wait to see her, (I'm meeting her there), that I'm positive she will look great as always.
I plan on acting as if she wants to be there with me, acting as if the relationship I wish for is being built with every second we are together. Acting as if she only has my best intentions in mind. Acting as if it only takes one to bring about positive change in a relationship and I'm man enough to take on this task.
W let me know again last night how done she is, has been and will always be. How she can't ever get her feelings for me back. It's so hard not to argue, beg or plead.
She is not wearing her ring, again. She did put it back on for a while, now back to no ring.
In the midst of her rant last night she did say that "if there was any chance, and its a fat chance at that", that she could ever get her feelings back or want to stay married to me, things would have to be drastically different. I won't bore you with all that she said, but I did pick up on the "chance" element. To me that says she hasn't totally closed the door. Or maybe I'm way off, if anyone is reading please feel free to share your thoughts.
It was an intense night. The weird thing is we ML a few hours later. In that department, although the frequency is slightly less, we still ML. Even when though its less frequent, there is usually a realistic reason, in other words, time constraints, one of the kids is sick, or we're just tired and its late.
Is this the part where I cling to the axiom, 'Don't believe anything she says and only half of what she does'?
For instance, today she has been pleasant each time we have chatted on the phone and she is on her way home now from church with D12.
Worked around the house all day, spring cleaning type thing. So tonight she planned to go to dinner with a friend. In the past this would have led to a fight. I grew up with Sunday nights being family night. We all knew my mom and dad wanted us to stay home, have dinner together and that kind of thing. My W doesn't really want to do that right now, due to the issues between us. In the past, when she has gone somewhere on Sunday night, we have had words about it. Today, I did a total 180. Didn't say anything about it except have a great night and she looks great. She told me about this dinner shortly after she got home earlier today. All I said was, okay and went back to working on cleaning out the garage. Kept every conversation light, friendly and a tad bit flirtatious every now and then.
When it came time for her to leave, I was happy, (PMA/Act as if), and pleasant. She gave me a kiss and hug and told me how great the garage looked. She also said I should stop now and go in with the kids, just mellow out as I've been working at it all day.
That was when I noticed she is wearing the ring again. I didn't react. I had a bit of an epiphany earlier. While looking through a pile of pictures I found in a box left over from our move I found some pictures from a few years ago. In one of the pictures she looks so happy sitting with me at some sort of social function. She is feeding me a piece of cake from her plate, she is a lefty so she is holding the fork in her left hand, it was than that I noticed something. She wasn't wearing her band that night and I didn't even notice. She was wearing a ring on that finger, but it was a fun, gaudy type thing, I remember that ring when she bought it. We laughed and she made a comment about costume jewelry. At that time, we were happy most of the time and for sure that night, so I never even noticed. I quite sure there was no significance at that time in her not wearing her wedding rings.
So why am I sweating it now? I shouldn't. Funny how little things like that can get to us until we see or hear something to bring us back to reality and slow the panic train. LOL
Working through today. I'm making it a goal right now not to call or contact her. I think one mistake I have made in piecing things back together is rushing into areas we aren't prepared for. Mort Fertel and other authors recommend making deposits throughout the day. A brief phone call or e-mail, that type of thing.
I think where I messed up was in assuming that my R was ready to go there. It wasn't.
Some authors recommend a 10 second kiss at least once a day, 5 positive contacts and on and on. I really believe that is optimal. In a good R, or even a almost good R, that approach would be just the ticket. In one like mine, some days I'm lucky if she will hug me, let alone a 10 second liplock filled with passion and fervor. In my current sitch, by the 3rd attempt at a positive contact via phone, I can hear in her voice that she doesn't want to answer and the whole "be first to get off the phone" DB principle? I don't even have time, she is sprinting for her 'end call' button she wants off so bad.
Maybe in a few months or a year, but for now, those are all great ideas just not for my R. If anything they set me back due to it being perceived as pressuring and chasing.
In the past, when she has gone somewhere on Sunday night, we have had words about it. Today, I did a total 180. Didn't say anything about it except have a great night and she looks great. She told me about this dinner shortly after she got home earlier today. All I said was, okay and went back to working on cleaning out the garage. Kept every conversation light, friendly and a tad bit flirtatious every now and then.
I'm so glad you were able to keep it light and friendly. And clearly so was your W Sometimes we forget just how cherishing it can be to acknowledge the other persons wants, and giving them space to be. Congratulations on the 180.
She came today to pick my car up, things went well. My objective has been to keep things light. Start from scratch, try to build a really solid friendship. She did hang out a little bit when she picked it up, actually around 4 or 5 minutes of talking. I consider this to be a babystep as she usually tries to keep any contact with me minimal. She did give me a hug and kiss when she was leaving. I parked on the top of the parking deck and as she was starting to drive away she stopped and asked if I would like a ride back. I took the ride and then she gave me another kiss goodbye when I was getting out of the car to go in to my office.
This weekend she is going out of state to visit a friend. My objective is to be very supportive and positive about her visit. I told her today that her friend had IM'd me about looking forward to W's visit. I said it sounds like she is excited about this weekend, you guys are going to have lots of fun. She said I know, it will be fun. I got out, heeding Chuck's advice to leave her feeling positive about me.
No ILYs or anything like that, but plenty of babysteps.
Oh yeah, she did tell me yesterday that she was looking up info on the internet regarding rebuilding trust, she said, "I was looking things up on trust, stuff that says it can be rebuilt and stuff that says it can't". I took this as a positive. Yes, it is unsettling that she might read something that encourages her to pursue the D. At the same time, I take heart at knowing she read both sides of the issue, so that would indicate to me that she hasn't totally accepted that trust can't be rebuilt and there is no hope for our R.
I know it might sound strange but I have been praying that her mind would be closed to anyone that is encouraging her to seek a D or separation. I've been praying that God would intensely interfere in any relationship that is damaging to our R. I believe it will happen.
Tyler, I admire your persistence, given your W's distance and coldness. It took about five months into my situation before the "ice" began to thaw. We still have a long way to go, but at least the platonic connection is improving. I hope your W's "ice" thaws too at some point.
It sounds like the DB coach is keeping you grounded. It's also a good sign that you're back posting to us.
I'll keep checking-in on you.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Sometimes we forget just how cherishing it can be to acknowledge the other persons wants, and giving them space to be. Congratulations on the 180.