As a spouse that is going throught this a second time around, I can tell you, it would have been a whole heck of a lot easier had my H confessed to me rather than me finding out myself. Of course the radar is up, of course you suspect it, all the signs are there. It is pretty hard to cover it up. I am going through the pain, hurt, distrust and a million other emotions all over again. Had my H actually confessed and told me about the second one would I have been any less hurt? Of course not but I am possitive I would have been able to trust him a whole heck of a lot easier than I am now.
He is already passed it and can't figure out why I can't. We have been going for couples counselling for the past 8 months (4 months of it, I found out later, he was still seeing OW!!) How do you think that made me feel? Am I able to trust? I hardly think so and he wonders why
However, having said that, he is also SHOWING me that he means business this time, by his words AND his actions. He told me that regardless of whether or not we stay together, he has to get this under control for his own sanity. This made me feel pretty good knowing he wasn't doing it just for me, he wasn't doing it just for "us" - he was doing it because he knew he had to, to make HIMSELF a better person. THAT is the husband I want, not someone who does something because they think it is something the other person wants - that will NEVER work. That is what happened in the first A and 4 years later it happened all over again. We never dealt with it.
In Chrome's case, if they repair things and get back on track and his W finds out later that there was another A that he didn't tell her about, it will send her IMMEDIATELY into a tailspin and the odds of recovery out of that one are pretty slim. Does he take a risk telling her of A's she doesn't know about, you betcha!! But what would be worse, hearing it from him or someone else that knows your business better than you do - that would sting big time. Trust me, I know.
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
That's a great analogy and one that might really get through to some of those women who just don't really get the male perspective, like my W. I'm going to tell her this one. Thanks!
No problem. It's really too bad that I can't just come over and have a threesome with some of you guys and your wives. Some things are better taught by demonstration.-JK, JK, JK.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Is chasing a fantasy a dead end path that can be resolved through accountability?
Accountability for what though? Chrome is accountable for his EAs. His wife is accountable for the changes that she needs to make. With that being said, how are we any farther ahead? SHE needs to realize that she is accountable and that realization is being very muddied right now because Chrome's actions have drawn the spotlight away from her and her issues-he cheated on her and right now that trumps everything else, like it or not. I know I didn't
If Chrome’s W were to ask him what he wants and he gave her some ideas, then it would be up to her to decide if she could/would meet those goals.
Right, if you were starting from square 1, i.e. without an A. Now that the trust has been breached, whatever Chrome wants is going to come back to the A. Until it has been resolved. I didn't realize this was true in Chrome's case until now because he said his W never really had an intense emotional reaction to his disclosure. But it's obviously been bothering her and she's been thinking about it and it's probably been festering inside her ever since he told her. The fact that she hasn't had an intense emotional reaction may mean that she doesn't even trust him enough to disclose her feelings. All that needs to be addressed before she's ever going to feel secure and open enough for the kind of intimacy Chrome is looking for.
Why do you think this? Are other women smarter than you? Are they more capable as a mother? Are they more sexy and desirable? Before you answer, first define smarter, better, more sexy. There is no one answer.
No, they're not. That's my point. So why the heck is what H has not good enough? I would like to lose 10 lbs for instance. But, by most people's standards, I'm already thin. But I weigh a lot more than the models on the internet. I'm very competitive....my H likes very attractive, thin women. All I can is try to meet that ideal. But Eddie so eloquently summed it up with his post below from another thread:
What's porn got that a flesh-and-blood woman that I can actually touch doesn't?
First, of course, it's got a complete disinterest in my shortcomings as a person. The actress wants sex, and doesn't care what you've done wrong or failed to do right and isn't interested in testing you and won't lose their attraction to you by discovering your insecurities.
And the actress doesn't show any insecurities herself. She likes her body, she's proud of it, and she loves having it touched and using it to touch someone else. She likes the guy's body and can't get enough of it. She's positively eager to try things, and she instantly gets into it. She can't control herself, she doesn't want to control herself, and she certainly doesn't waste any time forgetting about everything else but the sex.
And the sex always goes well, there's never any awkwardness, she never fails to orgasm, and she's always smiling and out of breath afterwards.
And, of course, there's the variety. Can you be red-haired and freckled and Asian and 18 years old and long-haired and Hispanic and blonde and short and large-breasted and tall and small-breasted and athletic and slim and curvaceous? All at the same time? I didn't think so.
As you pointed out, trying to compete with that is a losing game. But since I can't stop H from doing what he's gonna do....competing is all I can do. It's not fair that I have to try to be physically perfect....but coming as close as possible while still being me is the only option I see. At least I know that I've done all I can. I say it won't matter precisely because of the things Eddie pointed out-no matter how hard I try, I can't beat that ideal. So, I can change until I'm dead and my H will probably still view porn or at least he'll still want to.
The key, IMO, is not worrying over your flaws, but recognizing that you have flaws and are willing to address them with your spouse.
I wouldn't have worried over them until I found out that my H was seeking a substitute. Then, what do you have left to do but worry and/or try to change? I'm not worried about my H leaving me. I know I wouldn't be alone for long. I'm worried about the opposite-about staying married forever to a jerk man who doesn't acknowledge how good he's got it and refuses to put me first....forever.
All his W can do is judge Chrome’s trustworthiness based on his actions and put her trust in him. The more he can uphold her expectations, the safer she feels and the more love she will hopefully feel in return.
But his trustworthiness is being tested simply by him pushing for her to change, IMO. She needs to feel secure again after such a betrayal and she has not had that luxury because Chrome has been pushing her for change all along.
Should she feel that he is “one up” because he asked her to change rather than doing it on her own? How much of that dilemma is influenced by ego, and therefore by lack of self confidence?
I'm saying that he's cheated on her and then tells her she needs to change. That didn't go over so well with my H, probably wouldn't go over so well with me had the situation been reversed and it doesn't look like it's going over so well with Chrome's W either. It doesn't sound like true repentance when you tell someone something awful that you've done and then tell THEM that THEY need to change. It seems contrary to being sorry and even implies that what you've done is their fault because had they been the way you needed them to be in the first place, then perhaps you wouldn't have cheated. There's absolutely no way around addressing cheating in a M and everything else is secondary. Trust me
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
"In Chrome's case, if they repair things and get back on track and his W finds out later that there was another A that he didn't tell her about, it will send her IMMEDIATELY into a tailspin and the odds of recovery out of that one are pretty slim."
Exactly! People who have cheated who don't confess often think they will never be discovered...however if they are it's that much worse. Because THEN the betrayed spouse feels like they've been forced to live a lie...and the cheating spouse has knowingly let them live it. That is VERY hard to recover from
Oh don't I know it - I am living proof. I thought the first A was rough. I never in a million years thought I would be going through this again, only this time it is worse, MUCH worse.
I question every little thing he does, things that NEVER EVER bothered me before. And he wonders why all of a sudden I am doing those things after 18 years of marriage. Hello????? you friggin betrayed me and when he did that he not only destroyed my belief in him, he destroyed my belief in ME - the one person I could totally believe in, and now I even question myself. How could I have been so stupid, how could I have been so naive, etc. etc. Bad enough when someone else hurts you but when you don't even believe in yourself, its pretty hard to get past that.
And that's exactly where Chrome's W is. Her whole world has been blown apart and what she thought was real, was a lie and she is now even doubting herself. A horrible, horrible place to be.
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
I'm not so sure that Chrome has had TWO EAs. It's more like 1 and 1A. If it's over, it's over. Only Chrome can know that.
Quote:
She basically said that one of us is going to have to change who they are, and that person will be miserable. I think her exact words were "I feel like you are going to leave me if I don't change, and then I will be miserable either way."
I nearly said those exact same words to my shrink waayyy back when, in M counseling. And he said to me, "if you want to change, change. If you don't want to change, don't." And I said, "but if I don't change (because he REFUSES to), then I'm ruining my marriage. Why is this all my responsibility?"
And he said... "it isn't all your responsibility. But what kind of M do you want to have? Don't change for him, change because you want a certain kind of M. If he doesn't like it, he can leave. But you can't control any of that. This isn't about him, this is about you."
Mrs. Chrome, it sounds, is feeling like she isn't good enough for you the way she is... and she is feeling resentment over the fact that YOU are the one who had the EA, yet SHE is the one who has to change. She's having a lovely (and certainly understandable) pity party of one.
Mrs. Chrome doesn't HAVE to be miserable. She just has to lose her resentment... like the same way HDs have to lose their anger. She is seeing, in a way, her two choice delima... and she is using the EA as her emotional weapon to keep her smack dab where she is (because she is pissed and hurt and resentful). She was not responsible for your decision for the EA, but she has 50% weight to carry up to and until that moment. She isn't completely innocent in all of this... now that time is passing, even SHE is beginning to realize that she cannot be a victim forever.
Keep being honest and compassionate and supportive... she can't use the EA forever to keep herself stuck. Looks at though she is beginning to crack. And while it is painful to watch someone you love hurt and cry... that's exactly what she needs to do to get it out of her system.
It's been awhile but since it was discussed but there was indeed and 2nd individual that he fell into another EA with. It's just my gut speaking, but I have a definite feeling that his wife might have suspected...but of course I could be wrong about that.
Either way though she would definitely be feeling resentment, as you say, regarding his having the EA and him expecting HER to be the one changing. It's not as easy as just losing her resentment to move forward "if" the A's have never really been dealt with. Corrie, I don't remember if you've mentioned this or not...have you ever been cheated on? I mean, if you were...were you able to just drop the resentment to move on? I hope that didn't come across as condesceniding...that's not the intent. I'm really just asking an honest question to see what perspective you are coming at this from.
I've got to second & third what Hey said up above. If it hasn't happened to you, you have absolutely no idea what it feels like to know that your spouse actually had emotional and/or physical feelings for someone other than you and how devestating that is -- that your soul mate could do that to you.
I've been through 2 EA's, 1 PA and now another EA. If you knew my H, you would never believe he would do such things. If you knew me, you wouldn't understand WHY. (not being conceited or anything, but I'm not what you would call a bad catch). However, our M was all messed up, but he made the choice to do those things rather than try to fix things or help me fix things earlier.
All I'm saying is it is SO VERY HARD to get over and I still don't know how or when you DO get over it. Like Hey said, you question everything. All was great & wonderful & then one little thing like he doesn't say ILY when we get off the phone while he's at work and you instantly WONDER.
It sucks, that's all I have to say.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
