IT'S HAPPENING ALL OVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!

[MariS]

RGM,

Just dropping by to send my support & PMA your way. Don't have much to add, except I "echo" what has already been posted.

MLC is a REAL roller coaster ride & it IS hard to deal w/their insane behavior AND actions.

[RGM]

Well I would say the roller coaster is about to come to a quick stop. I've finally gotten so fed up w/ W attitude I just blasted her in an e-mail. Told if she wants the D then give me the papers to sign. I'm sick of her c#$p!

[RGM]

I am sorry to all those who have spent there time giving me their support and advise in an attempt to help me save my M. I have finally given up. I am no longer willing to play my W's games. I know longer have the patience to indure her mixed signals, change in moods, self centeredness or any of the other hourly changes that I have gone through for the last year. Short of a miracle and an abrupt change in her decision, she has won. I will do what I can to protect and love my children, but I am not going to put them through another year of her hell. I only hope the actually D process will be quick. I have a feeling I will end up w/ a lot less than I would normally fight for, but I don't have the will to do fight it any more. Again, thank you to all of you that have offered your support, help and good wishes. The best of luck to those who still have the strength and will to fight for what they hold dearest.

Peace,
RGM
IT'S DONE

[brandnewday]

((((hugs)))))
Give it a few days...
You will change your mind

[BeingMe]

I have no advice to give (don't think I can give myself any good advice), but I do empathize with you, as I am in a similar boat. Take time, and take care.

[Heywyre]

Sorry to hear of your decision to throw in the towel RGM

It appears W has completely reversed rolls of actions as she descibes to outsiders. That she is the victim, the sacrificor, the one wronged.

I told you that was what she was probably doing. However, having said that, this is normal. Maybe not normal in YOUR world but definitely normal in HER world. My H was going through the same thing. There was nothing I could say without it always being my fault, him having excuses for everything, constantly defending and being nice to everyone except me. That has now done a complete turn-around. I am not saying things are perfect but how he views the world now is amazing compared to even a couple of weeks ago. For instance, about a month ago I asked him about why we don't kiss (passionately) he said "I never liked kissing" - talk about a put down. The other day he gave me one of his "superficial sister-like" kisses and actually said "you have nice kisses" and told me things will get better in that department. I just about fell over. I said, "I thought you didn't like kissing" and his response? "I don't remember ever telling you that and I don't know why I would have said that". Sheesh!!! So there you go.

They are not living in the same world as we are. However, in your particular case, I truly believe until your W actually realizes she needs some help (which she obviously isn't doing) she will never be open to working on herself and/or your R (just my opinion of course). I can't see how you can move forward with piecing if it is all one-sided. I can see working on the DB principles but piecing? Nope, it ain't gonna happen

Sorry for all your stress and hurt. And, please don't be sorry for anything. We are all here to help each other out and we will still be here for you. Please continue to post, even if only to journal and vent your feelings.

Take care (((RGM)))

[MariS]

RGM,

Try to hold on through the weekend and re-evaluate on Sunday or Monday. I too am in the same situation of being tired of it all.

THIS must be the trenches where we, the LBS, either make or break the M.

How badly did you blast in the e-mail?

Next time, how about sending a "draft" here on your thread and then wait 24hrs before you actually send.

Heywyre, you are right, they live in their own little world & it astounds me how quickly the MLCer's perception changes, even from morning to afternoon.

Thinking of you RGM and sending PMA!

[RGM]

MariS,Heywyre,brandnewday,BeingMe-
Again, thank you for all of your suppor, well wishes and good thoughts. Unfortunately, W is so wrapped up in her own world she's not going to see what she is doing. W has always taken the position , there is no grey, always b & w. She will resist making any decesion @ all, but once she does she will go to the extreme and not look back. That's where we are right now. As far as I can tell, she's mader her decision. She's not going to change b/c she'll think she's a failure for not sticking to her decision. Even is she does, she'll have the attitude that she'll just be miserable. She'll be sacrificing herself for everyone else. She's great @ playing the martyr card. She did it all
through MC and before.

I know she's in MLC and she doesn't realize it, but that's what makes it even worse. She so far in, all she can say is how dead she feels inside, but she won't let anyone help her climb out of her hole. I know that's a trait of MLCers, but when she starts pulling the kids in with her it's time to put a stop to it. My morning consisted of consoling S8 b/c his M had already left for work w/o saying good-bye. W doesn't realise what it means to others for her to acknowledge them. I've talked about it w/ her before. She would come and go w/o ever saying "hi" or "bye". No hugs or kisses for me or the kids. I finally got S8 to tell me the reasone he was so sad and upset was b/c he misses his M, b/c she doesn't spend anytime w/ him I walked in to his room and he's laying back in bed, crying. In his had is one of her hair bands. He just keeps holding on to it and look @ it. That's all he's got of her right now. Nice thing for a an 8 yr old to have for comfort.

W just doesn't see and doesn't care.

MariS you wanted a draft. I'll let you read what I actually sent her. She didn't even acknowledge it when we got home last night. She just kept acting like everything was a normal family. I know she read it though. After we got into a discussion b/c I told her I was tired of her patronizing me, she told me she'd read it several times, but she hasn't changed any part of her decision. And as far as that goes, this will show you how much she is really concerned for Ss. We agreed not to say anything to Ss until just before D is finallized. She hasn't filed yet. Will do that next week while I'm out of town, but she's going to move out/down to spare room in basement this weekend, just like last summer. She didn't think S8 would realize why she was moving down. While S8 was in basement this am, he say the bed had been made up again. He asked if M was sleeping down there again.

As for the letter-here it is. Sorry it's so long. Also some of you may recongnize a little bit of this. There have been a couple of things posted to my thread that I borrowed. I wish I could have said some of those things myself, but I've never been an eloquent speaker. Your statements are so true.


You're right. I see no advantage to continuing to go if there is no hope to change the current course of action. So spare me the pity party. I've come to realize it wasn't going to make a difference what I did or how I changed. You were never really committed to working this out. You said it yourself at the beginning of MC. I just hoped it was only b/c it was still so soon after we'd gotten back together and you were a little scared. But you never fully committed to try to work towards a mutual good, so that both of us felt like we were part of things to come. I really only had even a slight chance if everything went exactly as you wanted it.

You seem to forget the things that we discussed and both agreed to back at the end of last summer. That the real work was just starting. That there would be times when we started to slip into our old ways, but what we agreed to do was talk to each other about it and continue to work on our improvements. The only thing I asked was to make sure you wanted to do this b/c I couldn't go through it again and I was not willing to put the boys back through it. That you weren't just going to turnaround and walk out again. You told me you wouldn't. But you know what. . You withdrew and isolated yourself from me again. You went back to your support group that only reinforced your original plans. You've isolated yourself from anyone that was contradictory to your new found goals and ideas. You've gone back to blaming me for everything that's ever gone wrong or lumped me w/ individuals you previously had issues w/, like your dad or your brothers or your old boyfriends. Remember a few things that other people have told you. . . I'm not the cause of your problems . . .But when I tried to help, I got blamed again.

It's time to realize you're an adult. Life is hard, problems exist, and the world isn't fair. But you are the one that made decisions that not only affected you but other people as well. Well now you're not happy w/ how things have turned out b/c it's hard work. You tell me you don't want to be known as a mother and a wife. You want to be known for your accomplishments in your job. It's too bad you didn't think about all of this before hand. You've decide it's just not worth the effort and you've taken the attitude of "oh well things just happens". You want to hold grudges against me b/c I said certain things in a time frame where I was very angry and bitter for what you were doing, not just to me but to the boys. You acted like I should have just been friendly and cordial, like nothing had every changed. Let you rip our family apart and not get upset about it. Well you know what, I don't take the attitude, "well things just happen". Why is it when you want to blame me for how you feel, you can? But when I say I feel a certain way b/c of what you're doing, you tell me that's not your fault b/c an emotion is an internal decision and I just have to deal w/ it; it's a choice I made. Why is it you can continue to blame me for the isolation you felt, b/c you were never willing to talk to me? Why is it you still say it's my fault for you thinking I abandoned you after Robbie was born? But yet I can't ask for you to tell me you love me. I can't ask for you to show me you love me by being physical w/ me or spending time w/ me. And I don't mean sex. Sounds like a double standard that you like to use any time it suits you and you want to be able to justify your actions.



But since that has now come up, you also want to tell me that making love is emotional for you, but purely physical for me. You forgot to listen to what I've told you hundreds of time. Making love to you was emotional for me. I held that as the most special way two people could ever show their love for each other. You say you felt like a whore b/c you were "servicing" me. Well let me tell you what. It was no real treat for me, when every time I even attempted to initiate, I was rejected. The few times we would, it was "come on, hurry up and f&#k me." Let's get this over so I can do something else more important. Or usually, " No not that way, you're not doing what I want or the way I want." I don't know how long I'd asked you to show me how and what you wanted, but if I didn't get right the first time it was, "you just don't care what I want." If I wanted a dominatrix, I'd have gone out and found one.

What I really would have liked to hear one of those times is "I choose to unconditionally love you and work on things no matter what". But you wouldn't do that. I'm the one person in world who has the honest choice to love you. And I do so more than anyone or anything else in this world; and in your mind, you've made me out to be your enemy. All you ever had to do was ask me for anything. Ask me in a way that I understood. But you asked me in the way that you knew and I didn't understand. Instead of learning a new way to communicate, so that I can understand and provide you w/ the support or expectations you desire, you just shut down, run and hide and say "poor me, poor me, I've had a hard life". Never once did you let me try to help you or willingly accept my help. It was always "oh, you're trying to control me". No! I was trying to help b/c I honestly wanted to help you b/c I love you. B/c I would do anything in the world for you. Unfortunately, I too didn't know how to communicate in the manner you knew. And I didn't know that I didn't know. Well now I do, but you're not willing to allow me to make the mistakes and learn from them. The exact trait you said you wanted in someone, "forgiveness", and "the ability to make a mistake, but the willingness from your partner to let you do so and not hold it against you". Yet you're not willing to extend that trait yourself. Seems we're right back to that double standard thing.

I don't blame Ada for this. But she has definitely helped you down your path. You were right. You'd already started looking for a way to separate yourself from everyone else. But this is when you found Ada, and you were looking for anybody to reinforce your reasoning and justifications for what you wanted. All she did was reinforce it. And at a time when you were swimming in a tidal wave of emotions, you gobbled it up. The one time when I wanted to help you more than anything else in the world, you just built the wall higher. The one time when a husband and a family can give the support better than anyone else and you wouldn't except it. Then you turn around and blamed me for not letting you grieve. All I wanted to do was support and comfort you. I could never imagine the pain you were feeling of losing both your parents, but I knew it was something so severe that I wanted help you anyway I could. But it goes right back to you not communicating to me. You wouldn't tell me what you needed. You wouldn't tell me what I could, couldn't, should, or shouldn't do. Unfortunately it's very difficult to understand silence. I don't know if you're just afraid of opening up to someone you love b/c of your Mom and Dad dying. I don't know if that's why, for years and years, you kept saying you were convinced I'd would leave you. Were you just too afraid of having to go through the pain of losing someone again that you just decided to "beat me to it"? Did you figure that if you didn't open up to me and commit to us, that if I did leave or when I died you wouldn't be hurt as bad? That's what it kind of looks like. That's my perception. That's a real nice way to go through life.

It's a real nice thing to teach your kids too. Don't get close to someone b/c it's painful if they leave. One of the things that scares the crap out of me, is this is the general approach you're taking w/ the divorce and the kids. And again, it's only being reinforced by Ada. How do I know, b/c that's what she told me her philosophy is. Ya, her philosophy, take the high road during the divorce. Show that you love the kids. This will help teach the kids in their own relationships as they get older. NO! What will help the kids in their relationships when they get older is having seen their parents be able to communicate w/ each other; be willing work out problems w/ each other; be able to rely on each other and to love each other; be willing to commit to each other. That's what kids will learn from. Not some philosophy that kids are resilient and will get over the separation of their parents caused by one of them just not wanting to work on things. That's a nice lesson to teach them. Hey, when things get tough in a relationship or your life, you just walk away. What makes kids resilient in life is seeing that through perseverance, trust and love, you can overcome hardships and difficulties.

Unfortunately I have a feeling this is all going to be wasted. You're so far into your mid-life crisis, you'll spin this in to what every you want to. You can twist and turn what I've written into anything you want to and keep blaming me. You can keep convincing yourself and your support group that I'm the selfish one and the self-centered one, but you know what, I wish you could see what a mother's greatest achievement is ... Children who are happy. Perhaps you lost or never had your own identity. It was only what you thought you got from your dad and brothers. I hope you find yourself before you do much more damage to the kids. Children are resilient to a point, but why should they have to be. Why can't they just have a wonderful, stress free childhood? That would be the greatest gift you could give the boys, considering the crappy one you had.

So you can read this, you can get pissed, you can save it for your attorney, you can show it Ada, you can forward it to Lori and Liz so they can tell you how right you are for leaving me, b/c I'm such a self centered jerk, but you know what, this self centered jerk isn't thinking about himself. I don't really care anymore.

You want to know who's tired right now. I am. I'm tired of you walking through your days in a fog thinking that everything will just be ok and if it isn't, oh well, and justifying your decisions by saying, "I'm owed this". You're not the only one involved in this and it's time you realize that.

I look at this way, you've already made up your mind, so what difference does it make. My only hope is you read this and read this and read this. Take it to heart. It's not going to make any difference to me. I'll get over you eventually. I'll move on, find some else and I'll be happy again. But you need to realize just what you are doing, why and who else it's effecting. Because right now the only person you're thinking about is you. You and only you. And that's not the person I fell in love. You're right, you've changed and it's not been for the better. You were the person that was concerned about others. You wanted to take care of others. The only thing is you've forgotten which others, are the most important. You've forgotten which others, feel you are the most important.

[MariS]

RGM,

Hope Monday is better for you than what Friday was. Have quickly read through & will need to re-read your letter & reply again later.

Ar present, I would suggest to support W on moving back into the basement & go "dim", now that you have sent the letter/e-mail.

Sending you positive thoughts!

[RGM]

MariS,
Monday is not really any diff than Fri, Sat or Sun. As usual, W and & I spent lots of time together over weekend. S8 played in soccer tourny all weekend. Spent all weekend @ fields & restaurants inbetween games. One minute W is joking and giving me good humored cr@p like we used to. Next minute moody, distant w/ "don't touch me " attitude. Tried to talk w/ her Sat. This was strictly to set up a time that we could sit and talk about M&R and what W plans were on timeframe of serving D paperwork. Yes, I know we're not supposed to bring up R&M&D, but their are too many things that are not adding up and have flip/flopped from 3 months ago. Well even though Sat. convo was only supposed to be to set up a meeting time, one of the things that came out was why W decided she wasn't going try anymore. W didn't feel I was paying attention to her requests; and since I wasn't, that's why she felt it wasn't worth her time to work on M any more. One of her comments set off a little alarm in my head. She kept mentioning her list. This list was something W had suggested and I agreed would be very helpful. It was supposed to be of things that had bothered her and things she felt were creating some of the issues. B/c there had been a past comm. prob we thought it would be a good thing. Besides, I'm a guy. I need detailed instructions to understand what I'm supposed to do. Also thought b/c of past misinterp. that W would right down and then we'd go over for me to confirm I understood. Good plan Never happened She kept telling me she was going write it down for me. W never gave me the list even though I kept asking for it. When she brought up the "list", I remindered her she never gave it to me, so I wasn't exactly sure what it was that had been bother her for all this time; therefore I couldn't be working on all things she wanted me to. So it wasn't that I was ignoring what she had been requesting me to do. I still didn't know. She had never followed through on what we had agreed to. I had tried to come up w/ my own list for her, but obvisously wasn't a good list. It did make her think a littlebit, but I don't know if it will be enough to get me another effort on her part.

As far as supporting her decesion to move back down to the basement, I can't do that for the fact that will tip off S8 about what's going.

I still can't let go of hope there might be a slim chance (I know this contradicts what I wrote Friday). I thinking snowball here I'm still not overly optimistic. Friends (H&W) of W and mine sent e-mail today, offering any help they can to our sitch. Offering to come to town to watch Ss. Offering to keep Ss for weekend, etc to give W and I time alone. They've known what has been going on for the last yr.+ I've known them for almost 20yrs and W has known them since we first met (16yrs). We were part of bigger group that all used to go out together, includes Ss' godparents. Still do sometimes. All Ws used to be gfs. When our sitch first started, they offered support to both of W & I, individually. Didn't try to take sides. None of our f did. W would never reply or respond to offers of support or friendship. She recently wrote another gf of hers that all of the other Ws were ganging up on her and taking my side b/c they were x-college f of mine. In actuality, she completely isolated herself from them. Never would call, e-mail, go out w/ them. The w/e that W dropped new bomb, they emailed wanting to know how we were doing. We hadn't spoken w/ them for a month or more. They sent e-mail to my work and W work. I filled them in on the newest surprise bombing. She never responded. They sent another email today (again to both of us), offering any help to us that we wanted (above). When I emailed W this afternoon about some things, I also included an inquiry about taking them up on their offer. She wouldn't admit to ever getting either email from them. I know she got the emails. Our f got an automatic response from W system that it had been received. Same as last time.

We'll wait & see what happens 2nite. Tried contacting W earlier about plans for this evening. Left vm. No reply. Things just cold, distant and "all quiet on the western fron".