The fat lady is warming up....

[OldFool]

How long is long enough? My answer is when you detach enough to objectively assess the situation.

I fully agree and have believed this since I began to understand it back in early December. You, however, have said it better and more succinctly than any.

[Some] here imply we are quitting when we decide to give our spouses what they want. On the contrary, standing in their way is holding someone we love against their will and that is not a loving thing to do.

Well, I actually believe that if you pursue the D yourself, you are quitting. I think your concern is over the implication that quitting (after a reasonable amount of time has passed) means you are somehow a lesser person. I don't think this is generally the intended implication, but I do understand how it can come across that way. Truth is, sometimes quitting is appropriate. However, I also agree that standing in the way of a D (which is not the same thing) is holding someone against their will (in a manner of speaking).

So I am pushing forward with my D. The loving thing I will do is to let her go b/c that is what she wants.

I think it's perfectly OK for you to decide to move forward with the D if you've had sufficient time to be objective and you feel the need to move on. But I hope you recognize that if you are pushing for the D and she has not recently stated her intention to actively pursue it, it is no longer about what she wants and is now about what you want. I think that's an important distinction, but that doesn't mean I think you are "wrong" if you choose that course of action.

Luck with the job.

Thank you.

Sorry, I noticed this & that's why I mentioned it:

I gave my WAW one month for each year we were married and I am now approaching that mark.

I may not have been clear enough. This was not a deadline, it was the minimum I said I would wait to insure that I had sufficient time to adjust and detach enough to be objective (which I have done).

...reconciliation might be just around the corner from the deadline you have given yourself.

Again, this is not a deadline and I am under no obligation to myself or anyone else to abandon the M at that point. However, after all this time I believe it is reasonable to expect that she should at least be able to say that she is uncertain if she wants a D.

I'm not asking for anything else (no commitment, no reconciliation, no nothing), just a statement that she is either certain or uncertain she wants the D. Neither I nor our counselor believe this to be an excessive or unreasonable request.

[stilldazed]

OF-

Did you reach a point, or moment in time when you realized you were objective about the situation? Im curious if this came as a singular point of clarity, or has been a process of ebbing and flowing to get to a final place.

Additionally, have you vacillated at all since reaching that point? Im really interested in the process. And the idea, or ideal that one can detach enough to be objective. True objectivity is such a hard thing for me to imagine since there is so much emotion involved with all the memories.

Perhaps thats what true detachment is. I support whatever course you decide is best for you. That is why we are all here, to heal or reconcile, not to stay in limbo for eternity hoping that pause in the downward spiral will turn.

We each have our own timeframe, your minimum of one month for each year seemed quite reasonable. As I approach that same timeframe I am beginning to see a future, but dont feel I have detached to the level you have.

[OldFool]

Did you reach a point, or moment in time when you realized you were objective about the situation? Im curious if this came as a singular point of clarity, or has been a process of ebbing and flowing to get to a final place.

I'd say it was more a gradual process...not a single point in time. There was no "lightbulb" moment, so to speak.

Additionally, have you vacillated at all since reaching that point?

Not really. There have been times when I've been sad, but they do not last too long and are relatively mild (compared to the early days). In addition, the sad times do not affect where I'm at in my head or my decisions.

True objectivity is such a hard thing for me to imagine since there is so much emotion involved with all the memories. Perhaps thats what true detachment is.

I think it is. Being detached doesn't mean you no longer care or that you've moved on. It means that you have a life, that you can function normally, that you can look at the situation objectively and without the emotional baggage. When you're detached, you're not on the rollercoaster as much and you can make clear, rational decisions about yourself, your M, and your WAS. That's not to say you feel no pain, only that it no longer drives you, your actions, or your decisions.

We each have our own timeframe, your minimum of one month for each year seemed quite reasonable.

I can't take credit for that...I discovered it somewhere in these forums as a rule of thumb and thought it seemed logical and reasonable. So I took it as a good minimum so that if the time came I felt like bailing, I'd have something to hold me back. A kind of safety to insure I didn't do anything stupid. It kind of makes me think of an auction. They say to pick your max. bid for any item in advance or you'll get caught up in the emotion of the moment and pay more than you're prepared for.

It's kind of ironic. When you first start to detach, it is so hard and seems nearly impossible to do. It's like climbing a steep hill that appears impossible. But each step gets you a little closer to the top and once you're over, you see what detachment is all about. You also think the hard part is over. But as anyone who's run down a steep hill knows, its nearly as hard going down. You find that the process of detaching you worked so hard to start is now dragging you away from the M and your WAS. You end up fighting the pull to move on entirely and abandon everything (and therein lies the ultimate irony).

[still hoping]

Hi OF,

I've been following your last few posts. Feel like I am ready to give up fighting for my M and file for D, although that is not what I want. I do still love my H and I do want him to be happy, so think it's time for me to let him go. Don't think I've successfully detached, but just can't take any more of this. No real comments or advice here. Your thread title just seemed to reflect where I am too.

[Jeff223]

OF,
Excellent post. Especially about detachment – love the hill analogy.

Since others are reading please allow me to post my journey in detachment. Hope I am not high-jacking.

I am in the same place and it was a slow process. When we first separated I thought we would be back together in a few months at most. Her life revolved around the kids and I thought “sharing” them between households would cause her to reconsider. It did not. I showed the kids a great summer and the kids asked her when I was coming home – she told them I was not. I really thought the holidays would bring us together, but no. Not spending Christmas morning with her children? Did not matter. Her mom got sick and she needed support but still no move towards me. She went to the emergency room just before Christmas with severe reaction to stress – still no second guessing. She engaged an attorney last October but I filed first due to potential custody issues (being the filing party has some advantages).

BTW, it has been 14 months since my bomb – almost one month for every year I knew her.

Along the way I was hoping and praying and I was in pain. But along the way I went from focusing on her to focusing on me and my life. As you say I reached the top of that hill. It is hard to slow down in moving on once you crest, once you accept things for what they are.

I too still vacillate emotionally but the swings are not as pronounced; more like a kayak in a fast moving stream with challenging rapids rather than a rollercoaster.

I don’t think the sadness will leave for a very long time yet.

It takes 18 months to get to trial here so it is to my advantage to move it along now that I see my situation more objectively. There is also a liberating feeling to take control and in fact do things for me for a change. Plus I can steer the negotiations some. A final point is that we are trying to stop the emotional divorce; that is different from the legal one.

The alternative is to put my life on hold another year. It is a hard decision.

Like you, I believe I would consider trying again if she makes any indication she is willing. Maybe the draft settlement papers will affect her. But trying again becomes less attractive to me as time passes.

She still desires a D, she has made that clear. But she does not have the fortitude to draft up the agreements. She wants to run away. She just wants me to go away. Or is it that she really does not want the D deep down? I do not believe so; I cannot read her mind (so you never really know) and her actions do not support this. She *needs* the D – she just does not want to deal with the process (even though she has a lawyer).

So I have decided to *push* the D. It is what she wants, based on ALL indications, and I hate to say it is looking better and better to me to.

[OldFool]

still hoping and Jeff223:

My heart goes out to you both. Each of you has been in the game much longer than I so I cannot, yet, understand fully where you are at. However, I have no doubt that your paths have been full of pain, frustration, and hopelessness. You are in my thoughts.

The other day I was speaking to a friend about my situation and the fact that I am considering what to do at this time. After a quick review, we had this exchange (paraphrased):

Him: How long were you and your W together before you got married?
Me: Five years...if you count the engagement.
Him: Why did you wait so long?
Me: I wanted to make sure she was the right one.
Him: If you waited for five years to make sure she was the right one, why are you willing to decide she's the wrong one now after just a tenth of that time?
Me: Because then, she was saying she loved me...now she's saying she doesn't.
Him: So? Before, you wanted to make sure what she was saying and how you were feeling were accurate...right?
Me: Yes.
Him: So right now she says she doesn't love you. Why not let things go a little longer so you can make sure what she's saying isn't accurate? The only difference between then and now is you!

Wow. That really hit home for me. Friends...God bless 'em. They're sometimes the only ones that know you well enough to really smack you with a 2x4.

The upshot is that, as a result of that conversation, I'm not going to pursue the D myself at this point and will continue to "stand by" (for lack of a better word). I'm not going to allow the situation with my WAW to alter my decisions about things given my employment status, but I won't take an active role in getting the D at present (allowing circumstance to dictate the outcome for now).

That having been said, with the support of our C, I have asked my WAW for a statement as to where she stands right now. I don't know what this will do, but I believe we are currently in a rut and Michele says one should change tactics if you're not making progress. I hope doing this qualifies and will perhaps jar her into some movement. In addition, the C believes she needs to start taking control and responsibility for where things are and taking action to identify what she wants and how to begin making progress toward it.

Whatever happens, it should be interesting.

[I_Wanna_Make_It_Work]

Very Wise, Old Fool. I think the best decision you could make in the sitch. Moving forward and no roadblocks.

[neli]

A lot of good conversation going on here. I have learned a lot from every post.

I am half way done with the D. I assume so as we have a temporary custody agreement filed with the court. It is very hard for me to detach from the person I care about. It is almost like a two fold detachment. I am pretty much detached witht he wife side of me. I don't look to him to feel any one of those needs. And no I am not seeing anyone. It is the friend side of me that is having a hard time. He is having some issues financial and they are mostly due to choices he is making. It is taking just about every ounce of energy at times for me to stop myself from calling him and trying to save him. When I saw him earlier I wanted to give him a hug and tell him that I feel he is not doing very well. IS there anything I Can do to help. But I do realize and know that making a fool out of myself is not something I should do right now. ANd it is not my job to take care of him. Good or bad, all of these are his choices.

So when do we detach in every aspect from them. The spouse side of us, the friend side of us, the human side of us. When do we detach with every role we played in that partnership.

Neli

[Confused_in_AZ]

Neli,

That is a question that I am still struggling with myself 9 months after the D.

And it makes it that much harder in situations where you spend time together, and when you are driving home, you wonder to yourself....why are we divorced again??????

[OldFool]

Welcome neli & Confused_in_AZ

So when do we detach in every aspect from them. The spouse side of us, the friend side of us, the human side of us. When do we detach with every role we played in that partnership.

When you figure that out, let the rest of us know.