Hey Owen, Jim, and LL. Okay, LL, you want to know what's up...well, you asked for it.
What the hell is going on with my W? How can she act almost like nothing ever happened sometimes? I know it's self-centered and likely unhealthy, but why isn't she kissing my a$$ at every opportunity? Why isn't she making me a plaque for winning brownie button of the year? Don't get me wrong, she's more giving these days than she has been in a long time, but (LL's favorite phrase) WTF? Every time I see her the big white elephant is standing on each of our toes, yet most of the time nothing is really said. She knows that I want very much to hear endearing words from her mouth, yet she won't do it. She's holding back...being cold sometimes. Is she not ready? Well, then why the hell did she come back!?!? Through the years I've always told her how special she was, beautiful, that I loved her, she was sexy, and so on, but what did I ever get? Not a whole hell of a lot. Maybe an ILY reciprocated. I'm bugged today.
Last night we watched Pulp Fiction, which I haven't seen for years. You remember one of the first scenes when John Travolta and Samuel Jackson were talking about how a guy got thrown out of a 4-story window for giving another man's W a foot message? Then they got a little risque making comparisons with different levels of infidelity. Well, needless to say, this made me feel like crap. I felt like turning the damn movie off! My W made some light effort to be affectionate with me, but I just felt distant. She knew too, asked, and I told her I wasn't thrilled with the movie's dialog. End of discussion right then.
THIS SUCKS!!! These day-to-day machinations are going to drive me nuts!
Something happened on Friday night that I wanted to share with you guys (and forgot) when my W and I were out. We went to a Karaoke bar together...not the one she met the OM (she promised never to go there again), but another one. We both sat in the car, anxious to go in because, in a way, she mentally left me for Karaoke, then met OM during this involvement. So, it's a sensitive subject. She kept asking me if I felt okay about going because of all that happened. I told her that she loves to sing and that we really need to separate the fact that she loves to sing from what happened. I went on to say that I nor she could deny herself the pleasure of that outlet. So, we got there and I parked the car. We sat in a car a few minutes, both feeling anxious. She then said something interesting...she swore on our children's lives that she would never cheat on me again...that it was so horrible...the lies...how it made her feel, etc. I agree these are powerful words (especially coming from a mother), but they are just that...words. I want action. I want her to DB my a$$ off. I want her to read a bunch of books like I have, and do everything in her power to get close to me.
Yes, I'm frustrated, but I'm not saying anything to her about it (okay KAW?).
Jethro - I feel your frustration because it's very similar to the frustration that I go through with my W. Makes you want to become a brain surgeon or a double-naught spy, doesn't it?
Sorry - couldn't help the Beverly Hillbillies dig. Well, actually - I could have since I live here in NC...
I want my W to read as well - get a sense of where we are coming from these days. At this point in our respective R's, opening up "The Playbook" (DB and DR - soon to include TSSM {The Sex-Starved Marriage}) may be a part of finding something that works. But come here to vent - we'll listen. W said that I always was a good listener...
Maybe she is dbing and is trying to not bring it up too much to keep you from focusing on it. Just a thought.
Try not to get too mad at her. At least when you do, you are coming here to vent now. That is good.
You have made it past the LRT stage Jethro and are moving on to real DBing now. I am happy for you. Just remember how far you have come, but you still got a ways to go my friend. Just be patient and hang in there.
FLoyd The grass is always GREENER over the septic tank.
I'm glad that you are at a point that you are putting it back together. The words will come in time. You might tell her that you miss the closeness. Maybe she need's you to know that she is scared and aprehensive of you also. In your car conversation she's asking you to trust her again. If you think she's worth it, go out on a limb and give her alittle. You are stronger and better and able to handle it if she stumbles. I don't think she will, she sounds sincere. Your two are moving in the right direction and I am glad for you. I dream of just being able to sit and look into my W's eyes again. But you are getting there and rebuilding.
Quoting jethro: What the hell is going on with my W? How can she act almost like nothing ever happened sometimes? I know it's self-centered and likely unhealthy, but why isn't she kissing my a$$ at every opportunity? Why isn't she making me a plaque for winning brownie button of the year? Don't get me wrong, she's more giving these days than she has been in a long time, but (LL's favorite phrase) WTF? Every time I see her the big white elephant is standing on each of our toes, yet most of the time nothing is really said...
My wife acts in a similar fashion as well. Her way of working through this is to try to eliminate any reminders of that dark period. To act "as-if" all is back to normal as to avoid any triggers that will cause you or her to trip back to that time. I swear, it almost seems like she has amnesia which blacks out all memory she had of the first six months of 2002.
Quoting jethro: but they are just that...words. I want action. I want her to DB my a$$ off. I want her to read a bunch of books like I have, and do everything in her power to get close to me.
Oh boy, Jethro. You are going to have to find a way to let this go or it will frustrate you to the point of turning you into a basket case.!! It is as relavent now than in any other part of DBing in that you cannot control how they go about doing anything and that includes how they work on the M too ... You are going to need to work on it from your end and she will do the same from her end and strive to meet somewhere in the middle. From your end, recognize her methods /language of working at it. Will what she does always satified you? No way!! , but as with any gift, its not what you received, but the thought that COUNTS! Learn to appreciate the thought and it will become more satisfying. Look for a specific deed, you will be turning a blind eye to what she is offering and you will end believing you are winding up empty handed and will continue to be disappointed.
Your description of what transpired last Friday night is a perfect example.
Hey NewBob, nice to see you chime in. I've been reading your posts, but have yet to post anything myself. I'll get to it soon. A brain surgeon? Well, I think an exorcisor is more appropriate, but I don't want to become a priest!
Also thanks for visiting J-Ro, Owen, and KAW.
Quoting Owen:Maybe she is dbing and is trying to not bring it up too much to keep you from focusing on it. Just a thought.
I don't think it's as much DBing as it is she wants me to forget...like she's trying to do. Yeah right!
Quoting J-Ro:Maybe she needs you to know that she is scared and aprehensive of you also.
I think, in a way she is. She hasn't put it in so many words, but I know she's concerned about me being able to forgive. At the same time, although she hasn't said it, I don't think she feels towards me the way she thinks she should feel towards me. This hurts because I think she still has the "ILY, but not ILWY" thing going on. I can only continue to DB and implement my knowledge of her love language to change that. In time, hopefully, she'll feel differently.
You know, if she actually told me unabashadly that she loved me and was sure I was the one, then I'd probably approach this a bit more positively. But, alas, how can I expect that after what we've been through?
Quoting KAW:My wife acts in a similar fashion as well. Her way of working through this is to try to eliminate any reminders of that dark period. To act "as-if" all is back to normal as to avoid any triggers that will cause you or her to trip back to that time. I swear, it almost seems like she has amnesia which blacks out all memory she had of the first six months of 2002.
That's gotta bug. I WANT VINDICATION! I guess hoping and getting are two different things, hey KAW?
Quoting KAW:Look for a specific deed, you will be turning a blind eye to what she is offering and you will end believing you are winding up empty handed and will continue to be disappointed.
Your description of what transpired last Friday night is a perfect example.
Okay. I hear ya... I know it wasn't an insignificant thing that she said. It's hard not to get hung up on the hurt.
Thanks guys. Feeling a little better now. We'll see what tonight has to offer. I've purposely not called her today, nor she me. I think she thinks I need space. Weird how we're always trying to second-guess the other. I have Yoga tonight, so I'm looking forward to a little grounding.
Jethro -- Just found your thread yesterday. I owe you thanks for posting because your situation really resonated for me and led me to think about my sitch in a new light. I've shared some thoughts with you below! recap of my sitch: married 7 years, no kids, found out 2 months ago of EA between H. and woman he worked with (after 6 months of suspecting and him denying it. He still denies PA but who knows?) We're still together and he's been very loving and affectionate but there's no talk of A. or future of our M.
Quoting jethro:
What the hell is going on with my W? How can she act almost like nothing ever happened sometimes? I know it's self-centered and likely unhealthy, but why isn't she kissing my a$$ at every opportunity? Why isn't she making me a plaque for winning brownie button of the year? Don't get me wrong, she's more giving these days than she has been in a long time, but (LL's favorite phrase) WTF?
So, this is what got me started thinking...this past weekend after a LONG week of almost constant togetherness, I was exhausted from DB'ing. We went to eat lunch at a local sub shop and even though we were planning on eating there, I ordered my stuff "to go" since I knew I'd want to take half of it home and that way I'd have all the wrapping, etc, already. Well, H. got peeved at that and as I stared at him incredulously, it took every ounce of DBing strength to not scream at him "You had an EA for 6 months, lied to my face over and over, told another woman you loved her, may still be carrying on with, ignore discussions of it and you're pissed because I ordered my lunch to go????" (Picture a spewing, venomous, dragon head and you'll know how I felt). But, I didn't say anything
So, the combination of that event and your post made me realize a few things -- first of all, I'm ingesting my anger and resentment, not releasing them and that is not healthy for me or my M. Secondly, no matter how much I wish and hope for it, my H. is NOT going to necessarily resolve and deal with the aftermath of the A. in the way that I want him to. I cannot control how he responds to me. I can ask for what I need and I can DB but the outcome is not something I actually have control over.
Quote: Through the years I've always told her how special she was, beautiful, that I loved her, she was sexy, and so on, but what did I ever get? Not a whole hell of a lot. Maybe an ILY reciprocated.
Have you read "The Five Love Languages"? I recently did and realized that while I LOVE to HEAR from H. how he feels about me, words themselves mean very little to him -- he needs to SEE it and FEEL it in ACTIONS. (Premise of the book is that we often feel as though we're flooding our spouses with love not realizing that we're not delivering the message in a medium they understand and appreciate).
Quote: Then they got a little risque making comparisons with different levels of infidelity. Well, needless to say, this made me feel like crap. I felt like turning the damn movie off! My W made some light effort to be affectionate with me, but I just felt distant. She knew too, asked, and I told her I wasn't thrilled with the movie's dialog. End of discussion right then.
For the last few months it seems as though every book, tv show and movie has SOMETHING to do with infidelity. Yuck.
Quote: but they are just that...words. I want action. I want her to DB my a$$ off. I want her to read a bunch of books like I have, and do everything in her power to get close to me.
Kinda similar comments to above .... you can ask for what you want, and use DB techniques but in the end, you will NOT be able to control how your wife handles this. I realized this AM that my H. has actually done his own 180 -- he's gone from being withdrawn and distant to being affectionate and loving -- but I'm unsatisfied because what I need/want is discussion and resolution and answers! I need to recognize the efforts that he IS making and see what I can do to get them supplemented with a bit more of what I think I need. But, I cannot discount all that he IS doing. Gonna work this into my DB goals somehow.
Quote:
Yes, I'm frustrated, but I'm not saying anything to her about it (okay KAW?).
Ditto for me on both accounts. Thanks again for posting your thoughts -- you helped me gain some clarity! I hope that my responses might help you, too, in even the smallest of ways!
--Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Ok how about I handle the PA thing and you handle the validation thing?
You are being to hard on yourself about getting past this PA. You just found out about it. It does take time. She is not ready to deal w/it and may never deal w/the issues the way you want her too. This maybe hard to swallow but getting past this is a decision that you have to make and then stand by. She has said she is sorry and will never do it again. She is embarrassed by what she has done. A normal reaction when you have done something stupid is to put it in the past and never mention it again. She wants to move on with you. Her actions over time will validate this for you. She is never going to kiss your a$$ and after awhile you wouldnt want that anyway. Here is a suggestion that you really need to consider. Get away for the weekend. Go see a friend or family but go somewhere. You need to reflect on how far you have come and decide what goals you need to work towards. How I wish my H would say and do all that your W has said and done. I bet a want point that was all you wanted too. Remember it all takes time.
Did the yoga help clear your mind? Keep your chin up. A
not really a good way to go about things. I know it's hard and you want the talks and you want to hear things and have your ass kissed (hell I know first hand, I sent myself flowers damn it!!)
BUT (I am famous for the but) you each are going through things right now, yes, you have been hurt, you have been betrayed but your wife is also in pain and hurt.
try to be understanding of her pain and she will be understanding of yours.
I myself in the very first days of h's return was supportive of his feelings, told him he would be ok, knew that it scared him that I was the one comforting him but it was how I felt then. seems that in his return I have gotten comfortable and want mine. I know that if I look close I am getting mine too.
the fact that you are getting more than you did before is maybe w's way of comforting you. If she did go all out and kissed your ass, would it really comfort you? it wouldn't last anyway and things would simply go back to normal, this way you are getting a more real w.
things are better than they were, that is what you have to keep reminding yourself, does it suck that in-order for things to get better this had to happen? YUP! but you can look at it as a crisis or as an opportunity.
the things you are looking for will come in time and if they do not you may find that you didn't really need them anyway.
Quote: things are better than they were, that is what you have to keep reminding yourself, does it suck that in-order for things to get better this had to happen? YUP! but you can look at it as a crisis or as an opportunity.
She reminded me of the way the Chinese express the word "Crisis." Their pictograph (I think that's the right word) for Crisis actually represents two words: Danger + Opportunity. And I bought myself flowers and created some mystery in W's mind as to their origin and may be beginning to pursue. Maybe my phone consult tomorrow will shed some light - help me to set some tangible goals and reinforce what I am doing is the right thing for all concerned.
So go out tonight with no expectations except that you will have a good time. LL is right - we are all in a marathon. The end goal is a marriage that we and our respective spouses want. If it takes time to get there - that's OK. That time allows us to rediscover ourselves - which can only be a positive!
