I have to wonder, if she declared her undying love for you, from the bottom of her heart, would you believe her? It seems a bit soon for her to have come that far. I think she is being honest with you (so you want to be ready to hear her answers before you ask her anything). Also, and this is important, you know that love is a decision. She has made that decision now, and is investing in your loving relationship. Now it can evolve to what you want it to be. Give it time. When this gets really frustrating, go have a chat with LL about patience!
Each day is a milestone between you. You've asked the question and have had what appears to be an honest answer. We need to take our time and remember that there is a lot to heal.
Let your W keep coming to you and welcome her. I don't think there was a problem with you bugging her until she told you what was on her mind - it told you a lot - she really does care.
It sounds like you have a good grip of your sitch and understand it very well. Here's to hoping that 2003 will be a year full of goodness, forgiveness and love.
Hey everyone. Last night and today have been tough, but it seems to be a little better.
Quoting Abby:IMHO I dont think she really knows yet what she feels. Let it go. When she is ready she will tell you. I do think I love evolves. And yes I do think the passion will come back. But I think when it will take a long time. But it will be worth the wait.
I very much hope so, Abby. I hope it evolves. Sometimes I think she's back to the old alien with the old regrets about getting M and having kids. It's probably just my paranoia.
Quoting Abby:She needs time to forgive herself. Does she know that you forgive her? Have you? At least she is dealing with it differently now.
I have not told her "I forgive you;" and frankly, I don't feel like it yet. I'm not ready. I have told her we would work it out and that things would be better. I asked her last night what she thought my reaction would be to her telling me the truth. She told me she was afraid, that I'd possibly take it out on the kids (huh?), and that I'd be so hurt I'd do something drastic and sacrifice our R. In a later conversation when we were talking about our New Years resolutions, she went on to say that she can't believe where I am today and how much I've changed. She said it with such...sincerity. It was nice hearing the acknowledgement of my efforts.
Quoting Abby:I dont think you will ever be satisfied w/ her answer if you have to ask the ILY?.
I agree 100%, Abby.
Quote: What kind od music do you play on you g? Is this hobby? Sounds like a good outlet.
Mostly blues stuff...with an edge.
Quoting Jim:Baby steps bellis. Don't get too impatient. Things are moving along, perhaps not as quickly as you would like, but they are moving. I want to thank you again for all of your support, and wish you the best 2003 possible.
Yes, I have to majorly slow down. I'm pushing and need to back off and give her space. She's been through a lot and I need to let her deal with it still. In terms of giving you support, it's my pleasure, my friend. I want the best 2003 for you. Let's hope your W's demons are exorcised.
Quoting RJJ:I have to wonder, if she declared her undying love for you, from the bottom of her heart, would you believe her?
Uhhhh...yeah. Well, okay, I'd be suspicious, but dammit, I want to hear those words so badly.
Quoting RJJ:Also, and this is important, you know that love is a decision. She has made that decision now, and is investing in your loving relationship. Now it can evolve to what you want it to be. Give it time.
Agreed, RJJ. I feel she has truly made that decision. In the past, right after each of the two bombs, she made the same promise to work on our M, but it was half-hearted, and I knew not very realistic. This time it's different...it really is. I know that the best medicine is time and caring for each other's needs. It's just so hard right now working through my pain.
Quoting Dienne:We need to take our time and remember that there is a lot to heal.
You're right...Dienne. I'm trying to remind myself of this daily...hourly...by the minute.
Pain. This is my word for the day for my journaling. It's flippin' awful. How do all of you guys, who've had to deal with infidelity, get past the pain of this event? I know some of you have. Sometimes, it's all encompassing, but you know what, I don't feel like I can tell my W how I really feel, so I'm going to do it here:
Quoting Letter to W:W, I have provided for you for over a decade and have been totally, and 100% faithful. I know I could never cheat on you because the guilt would tear my heart apart, and I could not bear seeing your pain. Yet, after you professed to work on our R, you chose to have an affair anyway. You did this knowing it was wrong. You did this knowing it was my greatest fear. You did this knowing it would cause me incredible pain. It was so incredibly selfish and self-centered...especially when I was doing all I could to keep us together, to keep our family together, and to live a happy life, all while my job was at risk (and thus our welfare). During your year of belligerence, you treated me like cr$p, told me you didn't love me, showed no remorse for the pain you were putting me through, were short with the children, were mentally gone when physically there. You spent my hard earned money to pay for the gas to see your lover. You dropped our daughter off at school and secretly met your lover for rendevous. You talked, flirted, and told sweet things to each other at the bar instead of staying home when I needed you and your family needed you. You shoved all who love you aside to pursue your own self-destruction, and the could have destroyed all that's good in life. I know you did this from a place of pain, but you did this knowingly.
Right now I don't feel like telling you I forgive you. The pain is still great. I'm humiliated because I can almost hear the whispers of those at the bar that suspect your infidelity. We made a promise to each other many years ago...a promise to work for each other through the good and bad times. Did you? No. Without regard to anyone, with reckless abandon, you did what YOU wanted. Now look at you. Do you feel better? No, it made you worse. Was I right? Yes, you know I was right. I was right about the negative affect of going to all the bars, and I was right about you needed to do nice things for yourself and quit wallowing in your depression. Did any of my words help? No.
I'm angry that you did this to us, W. I'm angry and in a lot of pain. But I'll get over it and I'll get through it.
Thanks for letting me vent guys. I'm feeling kind of crappy. I didn't edit this and just let random consciousness take over...so sorry for the poor grammer...
wow bellis, that is a heavy letter, thought for a min I was reading my own words. yup, I said almost the same things to my h, that was a year ago when I found out about ow (ya they were just friends (screaming of ea) ) so I said all those things and apparently h wasn't ready to hear them, or maybe I said them with that angry venting tone. was I right to feel that way? yup! was I right to tear into him like that?? don't know but it apparently didn't work cause three months later he left!!! well six months after that and the progression of said friendship turning into blaitant ea (they still deny pa. whatever) h comes back to again work on the m. have I said some of these same things to him. YUP!! does h have his side to things. YUP!
is it our fault that our spouses weren't happy? no is it our fault they went to another? no do we have to live with it... for a while we will but it does fade..trust me on that...you see how I can be with my posts. I don't much mention ow anymore, it fades and then the "real" problems come out.
it does get better bellis, it really does!!
try to imagine how horrible you would feel if you were in w's shoes. You say you would never do it, and I'm sure w never thought she would either (very few people intend to have an affair) what if your resentment over working hard everyday to provide for the family and your w's depression led you to spend time with a happy upbeat woman who appreciated you, you enjoyed her company innocently and then the next thing you know, you've got feelings for her and something happend. how would you feel about yourself?? how would you feel when you looked at your w, who you do love knowing you did this?? guilty, ashamed, embarressed, angry etc..
yes we are hurting bellis, we are, but so are our spouses. It takes time. you will get there.
I agree with lostlove. Did it help to write the letter even though you didnt give it to her. Something that helped me get past the PA was asking for God's help in forgiving H. I know you get tired of being told that it will be ok someday - but know that it will and hang onto that thought. Take care of yourself and know that I will pray for you.
Hi...In the love realm...Love is not a feeling, but a choice and if your W is choosing to tell her that she loves you...that's very good...By serving her and your family that will envigorate the "feeling" of love...remember...true love is unconditional....there are no expectations.... You can only keep what you give away..... Kevin
Quoting bellis: I asked her, "do you really love me?" because she has yet to tell me herself, and frankly, I really want to know what she's feeling in that regard. I think of should have left this one alone (and will for now), but her response was the following: "Yes I love you. We have a lot of history together and have been through a lot together, we have great sex, have similar interests, etc. I don't love you the same way you love me. I don't think anyone does. Peoples' love just evolves and changes over time." Well, I didn't like this answer. Sounds like she's resigned herself to live a life with me. I was quiet for a while and she was wondering why I didn't like that answer. I said that it just sounds like she's resigned herself to live her life with me. Her response was, "I do love you. Isn't that a good answer?" kind of frustrated (but not too much).
What do you guys think? ...
In the analogy of your W's journey, you have done a remarkable job of DBing to change the patterns that were pushing her away, to now her wanting to change her direction and come closer together. As you stated on my thread, DBing is a way of life. The present is she has change her direction and still in the future is to be drawn in closer. Continue to patiently follow your new ways and by this time next year if you were to ask her again (not that by that time you will need to ask, but for arguements' stake), you will get a totally different response, because through out 2003 you will have worked on coming closer together. Its not that she has resigned to settling for less, but that she knows it will take time to get where you both want to be and that is what she is now banking the future on...
Quoting bellis: ...I know I shouldn't have pushed the ILY stuff and won't anymore. I just have to wait until she's ready. Do you think that she'll ever regain the passion she's felt about me in the past? Do you think that she's so focused on her guilt that she needs to get past this first, then we can have that excellent R Michele always talks about in her books? C'mon, you guys, what do you think?
Yes you're right, you still need to find the patience to go slooowwwlee. You both are still healing the wounds from this. Pull at the scabs, and the wounds will re-open. It is just as relevant now as ever to ask yourself, "Is what I want to bring up going to bring us closer together or drive us futher apart?"
Me again..., The words you wrote expressing your pain sure did strike close to home.
What has helped me work through the questions of "How/why did she chose to do this?, is to understand her state of mind at the time. Quite frankly, I believe my W truely felt that the any of the answers to her happiness were no longer held in the marriage, even when she said she would work on M this time last year. She knew I would not be convinced of that to let her walk away, so to bring about a certain end (in her mind) to the marriage in my eyes as well as hers, so she preceeded to do what she did. It shocked the he$$ out of her to find out that I was still willing to continue to try to save the marriage.
When she was convinced in her mind that the marriage is REALLY over, then she no longer felt bound to the vows ... so in her actions as well as her beliefs, she truely became a WAW in order to convince me the marriage was over.
It's probably just my paranoia.