RE what to say to your H about moving. First off, unless you say something insane or truly cruel, don't worry too much about getting each sentence correctly as if that will make all the diff to your H.
Why not say the truth? He wants space and you need space, in order to get more work done. Period. If he pushes it, which I seriously doubt, you can simply ask him to have some empathy and think really hard why it might be a tad uncomfortable for you. You know, uncomfortable to be around someone who might want to work on the M, or might want to sleep with OW again, or whatever. Give him space and GET some space for yourself. You really do need it. Good luck, and btw, my sister (the one who die NOT handle the divorce well) has not admitted to me or our other sisters, insight into her role in the demise of her first marriage. Maybe she has some and they make her ashamed, she did gain a lot of weight. But my point is, b/c she was so afraid to really do the soul searching needed to see her role in the divorce, she continues the same behaviors. It's different now b/c her 2nd H is so sick. (her H#2 has a Brain tumor--which confirms to my sister how the universe is against her, but I digress)) But the point remains, many of the same behaviors she exhibited in her first M, she is repeating now. So I guess what I'm saying is if you really don't see how you contributed to at least SOME of what's going on, then your sitch is probably hopeless. I mean, if you were perfect, there is nothing you can do or change...Hey, the reality is the only thing you DO have control over, is you. It helps if you see those things b/c you can work on them, and you'll be a better woman no matter what happens. good luck, j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I called H on the way to the party tonight and gave him the address and directions in case he ended up coming. Then he called me back to ask me a business question. Then he called me again when I got to the party and asked me about the new property he talked to me about yesterday again. He was going to call the owner again and wanted to get my input first. We talked for probably 15 minutes about it. I just kept up my side of the conversation as if nothing has changed for now. We'll see if anything comes of it. He said he'd talk to me later when we got off the phone. Then he did not show up at the party. It was for the best, I know, and I had a really great time. At the same time, I would be lying if I said I hadn't wished he would be there. I know it wouldn't have been a good thing for him to be. I just miss him; that's all. I miss spending casual time with him rather than just the business stuff all the time. Anyway, like I said, I still had a nice time. It was great to see my friends and just hang out.
25, you're right about it being important for me to see my role in what happened/is happening in our M. I do see some things, but just not all of them yet I guess. I certainly am by no means saying I am perfect. I talked about how I know our romance/sex life was paltry and that I know I have gotten a bit more conservative since we first met. Those are the two biggies that H has told me. And what Lin said about controlling our conversations and always needing to be right makes sense to me, too. I know I need to work on my communication skills. It's just hard, because we communicate just fine regarding business issues, but as soon as it turns to anything personal, H just shuts down completely... I am the same person, whether it's business or personal, and I don't feel like I "shift gears" and talk/act differently whether it's business or personal, but for some reason whatever I say and do just doesn't work for us to discuss personal matters. I know that is a big one for H for me to work on. He needs to work on it, too. Besides those main issues, I honestly am still doing some soul searching to learn what else I am supposed to be learning from all of this. It's not that I feel like I'm perfect; I know I'm far from that. I just am having some difficulties with seeing all that I am to be learning right now. AND I'm eager to just get on with this, so that's making it even more frustrating. Until I truly see for myself what all I need to work on, I can't really work on it...
Well, must get some rest before tomorrow. It is going to be a hard day. The nice thing is that I know H will be racing so I won't have to worry about him popping in at the office hopefully. He didn't say anything to me today about racing tomorrow, and his mom didn't call me yet either. I have a feeling she still may call tomorrow. I have a rough few days ahead of me, and I will make it.
I will just play it by ear as far as the conversation with H about the move. Who knows, he may not even ask me about it at all! I have an idea of what to say, so we'll just see what comes out of my mouth when the time comes and what feels right. I just hope I'm doing the right thing and that I'm not pushing him away from me in a bad way...
It's just hard, because we communicate just fine regarding business issues, but as soon as it turns to anything personal, H just shuts down completely... I am the same person, whether it's business or personal, and I don't feel like I "shift gears" and talk/act differently whether it's business or personal, .... I know that is a big one for H for me to work on. He needs to work on it, too. Besides those main issues, I honestly am still doing some soul searching to learn what else I am supposed to be learning from all of this. It's not that I feel like I'm perfect; I know I'm far from that. I just am having some difficulties with seeing all that I am to be learning right now. AND I'm eager to just get on with this, so that's making it even more frustrating. ..
Hey strong girl
Just 3 comments
1. I guess it's no coincidence that business is going well and relationship is in the toilet given those communictaion issues.
2. Has H always had a different communication style when it came to Rs?
3. The answers (or perhaps the questions) will come to you when you are ready to understand them. Be patient and loving with yourself.
You know I've been thinking a lot about the things ImLin has been saying about you know what to do, so why don't you just do it?
I was trying to fit that analogy to my life, because I've been the same in so many things - like I know that if I ramped up my training I'd have the body of Elle McPherson (and I WANT that body, I think everything in my life would be perfect if I had that body), or if I networked more I'd have better business connections and my career would be better, or if I spent just 1/2 - 1 hour a day on housework, my home would be immaculate and I'd be really happy with that - but I don't. I sleep for an extra half hour and go for a walk rather than working out, or I turn down invitations to work things because I can't be bothered (and I don't look like Elle McPherson, so I don't feel like there's much to endear me to the waiting network) and I blob in front of the TV when I get home, instead of cleaning the shower screen!!! You know?
So I thought about what my ever-patient therapist would say about it and I know she'd say it was because I subconsiously think I don't deserve to look like Elle, have a great career or a clean house. She's say that there is a little girl inside of me that thinks all of that is too much hard work for a woman who is unlikely to ever amount to much anyway. She'd say it's time I thought about it with a grown-up rational brain and make decisions for myself based on doing things that I conciously want to empower myself with, rather than letting that little girl, who just reacts because she doesn't know any better, sabotage my life by encouraging me to take the 'easy' way out of everything.
I don't know what I think, but I'm going to keep thinking about it. Thanks Lin for raising this.
V
Last edited by Walkingback; 04/15/0712:25 PM.
V
Never make someone a priority, who makes you an option.
Well, like you I am not much on house cleaning and never have been but I do much better when I feel better....I have never had the body of Elle McPherson and not so sure that is what I want but I would like to be more fit and to that end I have been really working on that for the past several years...due to work accidents I have had a few set backs but I have now joined Jazzersize and it is auto deducted from my account....since I am a real bargain person there is no way I am going to let that money stream out without me getting my money's worth from it!!!...so to that end I am off of my but and have recently discovered (painfully so) that I do have inner-thighs!!!!...When I feel good my friendships are good...when I feel good my socializing is really good...
What I think is instead of an inner-child sabotaging my efforts for me it is usually DEPRESSION....I think that is why PMA is so very important...it is more motivating to me personally when I feel good because then I can honestly evaluate the situation...my mother could always tell when I was feeling down because my house would reflect it...I was doing good...then H came home and that stress led me down the path of not feeling so good about me and worrying more about him....now my house is a mess and I am more depressed and H is being butt-head...I hope that by pushing myself to Jazzersize I will begin to pull myself up...there are great financial stresses for me....H claim/has health issues....I also see him slipping into his sick depression again and have a plan to put a stop to it...this time I am much stronger and will not be taken down with the ship...
V and everyone else...we do have the power in us...if we look honestly...
And Tam...I will point out what was a control tactic you used last night...you probably didn't see it or you might have even convinced yourself that it was the "right" thing to do...when you called H to give him directions that was a round about way of finding out...ASKING....yet AGAIN if he was going to the party...now can you see how you like to control things???...Then you added in your posting how you miss him....you miss the socializing away from business with him....this is where you are creating in yourself a "NEED" for him....I want you to think about what you "miss"...because you may find out it is NOT WHAT YOU HAVE EVEN IF HE SPENDS TIME WITH YOU!!!...and then you keep bringing up his racing, how he hasn't called, how his mom hasn't called...I am going to predict that before the day is done you will call one of them or create a "need" to call H about business...this is how you control...you may not always be an agressive controler...but passively you can control and you DO...in business this can be a good thing...in a R/M it usually spells disaster...no one wants to feel like the minute another states their idea/feeling/plan that you no longer have a voice...oh sure, you let him talk...and you may not even get forceful...but you can question and question....reword and reword...until he just figures in his mind "Ok, you win, I agree."....and then you are happy and he is miserable...now in business with others this works really good for advancing the business...I know...I could do great things in business while using that same stratedgy at home ended me up with a very broken marriage and me oblivious to the whole mess until H had an OW and walked out the door in the middle of the night...not even wanting to face his children with his decision...not wanting to face anyone because "I (that's me) would be right" no one had seen anything but a happy couple, a doting wife, a loving husband, and three really well adjusted happy kids!!!...He must be crazy!!!...well in many ways he was/is...but I contributed in part to driving him there...and it is upto me to make changes that will improve me...thus improving the R/M and hopefully this will bring him back to sanity!!!
None of us are perfect....but Tam...I have never seen anyone who continues to do what doesn't work...oh sure, you get the hug, you hear what want him to say (sometimes)...but ALL of this is TEMPORARY and will not bring to being the happy person you want to be...that will not happen until you STOP the control issues, STOP the neediness, take possession of yourself, ACCEPT and ACKNOWLEDGE your part in all of this...it might not be anymore then what you have stated above....it could be as simple as that...so instead of continuing to "learn" more about what you need to do....just start focusing on what you KNOW you need to do and maybe that is it...or maybe you find out the rest later when you can handle it...when you are READY to work on them!!!
Good luck, and btw, my sister (the one who die NOT handle the divorce well) has not admitted to me or our other sisters, insight into her role in the demise of her first marriage. Maybe she has some and they make her ashamed, she did gain a lot of weight. But my point is, b/c she was so afraid to really do the soul searching needed to see her role in the divorce, she continues the same behaviors. It's different now b/c her 2nd H is so sick. (her H#2 has a Brain tumor--which confirms to my sister how the universe is against her, but I digress)) But the point remains, many of the same behaviors she exhibited in her first M, she is repeating now. So I guess what I'm saying is if you really don't see how you contributed to at least SOME of what's going on, then your sitch is probably hopeless. I mean, if you were perfect, there is nothing you can do or change...Hey, the reality is the only thing you DO have control over, is you. It helps if you see those things b/c you can work on them, and you'll be a better woman no matter what happens. good luck, j-
This is very very very true. I have spent the last two days digesting all the things I have read in books, posts and online resources. I am thinking about the diferences between men and women, and I have thought A LOT about my contribution to my marriage. I am being honest with myself. The two fights I had this week with my husband are my fault. I kept pushing and questioning him until he said some mean things. He knows that if says something really mean I will back off, He is right I did.
When my husband told me months ago he was tired of me and needed a break, I should have left him alone right then, but no, I gave him a few days then bothered him again, gave a few days irritated him some more, instead of just giving him his space and waiting for him to come to me.
I let the little paranoid voice inside of me tell me what to think instead of listening to the divine inner voice. The paranoid voice kept telling the divine inner voice to shut up. Now I am finally finding the strength the shut up and hopefully kill off that paranoid voice.
I finally understand that when you really really love someone you do not try to change them. My husband has always been a man who likes to spend time with fellow male friends. Sometimes they get carried away. It never bothered me when we were close and all into eachother. It gave me the space I needed and when we were together again it was magical. Now that we are not as close it bothers me and causes unneeded stress even though it is what he has always done. I need to let him be himself. He has given up a lot over the years, but I have been to selfish and have had pitty parties for myself that I never realized the sacrifices he made.
That little girl that Walkingback mentioned is the little girl who needs to grow up within me as well. I need to stop acting immature and grow up. This whole time my H has been telling me he needs space. I listened for a second then went right back and did what I always do. He knew I would do it too. I did not give his feelings the respect they deserved. He has told me for years sometimes I need to just be left alone. Now I think he just got fed up and with all the other stress in his life and past feeling resurfacing he is tired of me. I hope that now that I have been awakened that its not too late.
It does me so much good to read what you guys post that I seem to comeback to earth and don't think I m going crazy. Today has been tough. If you have a chance please read my post YOYO husband. I could use some advice. Sorry about hijacking here.
2940 Today I fell back just like you have. I called my H and told him what I had heard that his ow was telling people and her family that it was alright to date my H because he had filed divorce papers and that I wouldn't sign because of investment reasons and that I was a horrible B*$#h. I had a quite a long phone conversation with him.
Ok my point is we all fall back. It is so hard to detach all the time. I like you just want a little bit of hope and when I hear a kind word I think I have made progress but sometimes it is just a word nothing else. I know he just says them.. What have you guys said Don't believe anything they say. They are just saying it.
I see how important that it is for you to move your office. It is that detachment from seeing him everyday. When you see him you are always looking for just a tiny bit of hope from a hug , conversation,a look, a compliment. I know I do the same thing and you know deep down I know that it won't be there and if it is he means it different than what I want to believe. You and I also have to realize it and move ahead. It just is extremely hard easier said than done. I wish we could just split for a while and still have the business sucess that we have but in real life that doesn't happen.
I would just tell him that you need the space to clear your mind and get things thought out in your mind and you need the space to get your work done for a while. I bet he needs it too. Just like my H just said he wishes he could just take a job and leave and get away from it all.
It is so much easier to tell you then to follow thru myself. Knowing it is what we all need to do.
Good Luck Monday and keep your head up and stay as positive and confident as you can. Later you can let it out. I will be thinking about you and hoping things will go well. Alitte prayer will help too.
Gosh this is a good thread in so many ways. Like many of you, the house/yard work overwhelm me and I can only hire help rarely b/c H is delusional about what it would take to get the yard looking decent, or at least not the eyesore of the neighborhood. Some weird bug killed all 8 birch trees (birch beetle, to be exact and it was gross and freaked me out about eating the siding of the house, etc etc) and there is so much ivy and a hill, so I have A LOT of wood and yard crap to deal with and really these are small everyday life events. Our cars break down, the lamp breaks, etc. IF we can't cope with these things, we really are depressed. And some times I know I am. Of course I was NEVER a good housecleaner...
But here is the only point I have time to make right now. Last pregnancy I had, I got sick towards the end, and herniated a disk, so I was in a lot of pain, plus fat, plus moving from Texas to Alaska, which also meant leaving my job to be a sahm for the first time ever, etc.
One night in the 8th month or so, I was feeling very alone, as s3 was sleeping and H was on call working. I lay in bed looking out at the moon, which was full. I suddenly realized that somewhere out there others were also looking at the night sky, and surely another woman was seeing the moon. Surely some of those women were pregnant. And sad, or angry, or afraid. But unlike me, many of the women looking at that moon that night, were not lying in beds with mattressess, or debating whether to have an epidural, nor were they worried about a coming election. Some of those women were looking for shelter, even the primitive kind. Many were probably hungry. Some of them were hiding from dangerous people. Wondering if their H's would ever return, and if so, whether they'd still be healthy or even alive...
When you TRULY see yourself from the eyes of the rest of the world, it can help in a profound way. Don't think of it as a cliche, because that devalues it, and since it is a truth, think about it. Right now there are women who cannot vote in their country, or cannot drive a car even if the family owned one, women who cannot leave their homes without a male chaperone, women who have hidden from warring factions in their country, and literally having siblings who were hacked to death, (see Rwonda, Darfur, etc). I am healthy and free and despite some financial pressures I feel with my d18's college + s21's last year (should have planned better on the timing of the kids, but who the hell plans that well??) my financial concerns are, in the grand scheme of things, a joke. There is food in my refrigerator and there will be food next week as well. I put myself through college and law school as did all my 8 siblings. Not bragging, just saying it is achievable. If I had to, I'd get a degree online, no matter how long it took. When I was in the Army JAG Corps (the lawyer's branch and yes, I joined b/c H owed them service for his medical school) I served during the first Gulf War. I met women amputees, including some who had their hands cut off due to something a male relative (H's / father/brother) had done "wrong"....it was an experience that was pivotal for me.
SO, with all these factors in mind, I realize I am better off in nearly ALL ways, than 99% of the women on this planet...food, shelter, health, no one shooting at my family. It makes the pain of a troubled marriage pale in comparison to the "real world's problems."
The night of the "Full moon while pregnant" really was an epiphany for me. Cliche or not, remember that when you wonder how to say something to your confused and smothered H, or you parse his responses endlessly, and try to just back off and relax. Take a deep breath and be satisfied, for the moment. You DO have a life and you can and will be happy again, if you choose to be. It can happen regardless of your H's choices... j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I totally agree with what you are saying...there is always someone who has it far worse then we do...my moment really came when H had left and I was going to work in school transportation...I was working with special needs children...I saw their parents on a daily basis...it made me have compassion for them and also made me realize how fortunate I am that I have two adult daughters who willingly help support the family and one young son who is healthy and able to care for himself in so many ways...I don't have to change his diapers, worry if he will abused and not be able to tell me, worry that his medication changes might cause more health problems...and worry what will happen to him when I can no longer care for him...you see these are things that the parents I see deal with daily!!!...and they come out with a pleasant greeting, smiling, and ready to face another day of the same...their life is not easy but they make the best of what they have...they love their children the best they can...they accept the littlest responses from their children...they act like nothing is wrong!!!...I came to learn so much from them...yes, I still feel sorry for myself...but not for long...I do realize how fortunate I am and I am so greatful for the things I DO HAVE!
I think like you and your "full moon while pregnant" moment....I have had this and one other that ironically was during my last pregnancy...when we weren't so sure that our son was going to be born healthy, normal, or even alive!...Life can be a hard lesson...the sooner we "get it" the better off we will be!
You guys are remarkable with your insight on life. I so much appreciate what yo guys write. A BIG THANK YOU...Like you said there is always some one else who has it harder than us. I am very lucky when I think about it I have a loving family my own and my H family. My S'S are the anchor in my world and I am so apprecitative of them. I do miss not having siblings being an only child is hard and I believe it is harder as you get older because I could use a brother or sister either one sometimes to talk to. Even though I have great friends and I have this thread to read.
You guys just make one feel good even though I know how tough each of your lives are. You have such up attitudes.
You make one feel good about themselves. Thanks again.
