CL, if you read this before the party: Remember that you are a kind, wise man with a variety of interests, a good listener, and enthusiastic dancer!!!!! Believe that you will have fun at the party!!! I look forward to hearing all about it. I hope you will have so much fun that you will be the last person to leave!!!
I continue to be amazed at your ability to pull a positive outlook from what looks just flat-out disrespectful and mean on her part.
I do think you need more boundaries in place that demand respect, but I honestly don't know what you can do with a, really at the core, disrespectful W.
Only YOU can decide when you are ready to draw the line in the sand of Come With Me, or Don't.
Your W infuriates me (as do most WAS) and I am biased toward all of us getting what we deserve in a committed M. So I tend to get a little uppity and irritated.
Believing, Welcome to my thread. It's been a tough day for me. I haven't DB very well, and have been irritable with my W. It's hard to stay on track daily. I think I've needed the time to process the various comments and support I've been receiving.
I'm not sure I have a positive outlook on my M--perhaps a realistic one. At this time my W has clearly left the M. I've been demoted to friend and roommate status.
If there were a boundary I could set that would change things for the better, I would do it. I'm not sure the focus should be on controlling her sleeping elsewhere behavior. She would feel captive and unhappy in the home. What's needed is a change in perspective, that her social life doesn't have all the answers, and her M has positives worth holding onto.
I understand yours and others anger towards my W. I'm so focused on DB, that I don't realize how disrespectful she is. However, if my focus becomes how poorly she is treating me, and how do I set limits with it, I stop practicing the essential skills of DB--detachment, acceptance, maintaining positive connections. I thought the purpose of practicing detachment was to no longer be affected by the other person's behavior?
I'm not ready to charge into an ultimatum. That would make this an adverserial situation. If D is the direction we end up going, than I want it to be a mutual process, where both parties get as many of their needs met as possible. She gets her single life; I get to keep a lifestyle that I want.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
I agree that your W is being disrespectful of you, the M, and herself, but she obviously doesn't see it that way. From my perspective, I think she sees it as her asserting her independence.
Being, It sounds like you and others are expressing anger perhaps I should be feeling. I think I have waves of anger/resentment that she doesn't get to see. I think my GAL activities serve as a balm, and have a calming effect. Isn't that in your signature line, about friends as the balm to the pains of love?
I was reading on the internet that treating the spouse differently in public is a typical sign of infidelity. It certainly makes sense. Her wanting to downplay the M in our dance community has been going on even before the sleeping elsewhere behavior occurred.
As far as persevering, I think DB should get easier, because of increased acceptance, realistic expectations, increased distance from the R, greater investment into self and GAL, and no longer fearing a D, and life without your W.
The next bump in the road is the difficult discussions regarding the decision to D or Piece. I'll have to plan for these.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Matilda, I've been conflicted all day about going to this party. I don't want to be in the same room with my W, at a social function. I'm being a "scaredy-cat."
This is one of those patterns I need to break (my 180). I need to get used to being independent in the community. I will be part of the dance community in the future still M, or D.
I think I'll plan on staying an hour, and reevaluating. I think as long as I respect my W's distance, I should be OK. It's clear she wants us to be known as "casual live-in something or other." My guess is people can "smell" that something isn't quite right with us, but respect our privacy.
This is my community too. I need to cultivate my connections in the dance community, regardless of the state of my M. I need to honor my RSVP. It would be an opportunity lost if I failed to go.
Thanks again for the pep talk. I was starting to talk myself out of going.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Matilda, I just got back from the party. It was a great time! I ended up staying about two hours (my average). I like to leave when I've reached a saturation point, and I know I would just be going thru the motions.
I was sorely needed as there were more ladies than men. I was kept busy.
I'm trying to work on what my dance teacher advised--to be more relaxed and not think so much about getting the patterns right. I think the ladies appreciate a more relaxed simple dance, to a stiff complicated one.
My W was friendly to me, and said hello to me. She also asked me to dance! Our dance together is a reminder of what we're supposed to be striving for with DB--relaxed, pleasant encounters with our WAS. This is what they're looking for in their lives (among other things). The more we can duplicate those types of encounters, the more the LBS can "stay in the game."
I had several nice conversations. The one was with a lady who has a creative writing degree. I shared with her my experiences at my writer's group. She seemed impressed with my goal of writing a short story. She said that I could "pick her brain" anytime.
A classmate also confided in me about a tough class she had today. She was critiqued pretty tough by the teacher. I was able to empathize, as I had a similar experience recently.
Another classmate got me out on the dance floor to dance merengue, which I'm usually shy about dancing.
There were definitely some positives tonight. I'm getting more comfortable as a dancer, and getting relaxed so that the lady has a good experience. My W and I had a positive experience together. My W got to see me mixing and connecting to people. I had one meaningful conversation with a fellow writer, and moved our relationship forward.
I felt the fear, went to the party anyway, and increased my confidence, sense of connection, and personal power.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
I have been reading and keeping up on your party. Way to go GUY!!! I am so glad you had fun. I bet your w noticed too. Good Job.. You have just made the steps that you needed.
Friends, I continue to enjoy my GAL activities (salsa dancing, writing group, dance lessons, developing fiction writing skills). They allow me to engage in positive activites so I don't dwell on my situation. They are also an investment in my personal growth, and a means to connect with others.
I'm working on being more fluid and expressive with dancing. This has bee consistent feedback that I've been receiving from the teachers. Being shy and inhibited have been a problem over the years. I decided to return to a Salsa 1 beginner class. This class starts with the basic step. I learned what I have to do! The teacher says that we have to keep moving at all times, otherwise it looks like you're marching vs. dancing.
I like being part of a studio, and developing relationships with the same classmates, and teacher. The teachers get to know what your weaknesses are, and can correct them pretty quickly.
I'm starting to establish myself in my own right in the dance community. I used to hover around my W, and dance a little with others. I would consider my skill level now to be in the top 1/3 of male amateur salsa dancers in our community. I've come a long way in two years. I was so intimidated when I first started.
I've started reading a book on infidelity written by a psychologist who specializes in treating couples. He believes that most marriages can survive an A. I'm trying, as we all are, to get some perspective on this. I've reached a point in my detachment that I'm now able to read a book on this topic.
My W made an interesting comment yesterday. She came home highly frustrated about her job. She's been procrastinating about finding a new one. She came home and did a whirlwind of cleaning. The house looks great!
She said that she has one piece of her life that she feels like she has control of now (the clean house). Does that provide a window into her head or what! She must feel really out-of-control with her life!
She wants to quit smoking, get a new job, be perfect for the dance competition she agreed to enter this summer, and lose 10 pounds. She feels IMO that she doesn't have the power to make these things happen (and solve the problems in her M), so she looks for exits to make her feel better.
I was a good friend and gave her my advice on countering the patterns I know too well in her. She agreed and thanked me for the pep talk.
It's becoming very clear what her unresolved issues are, and her maladaptive ways of coping. It's going to be increasingly difficult for her to continue on without facing her problems, and learning some healthier coping skills.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
It's becoming very clear what her unresolved issues are, and her maladaptive ways of coping. It's going to be increasingly difficult for her to continue on without facing her problems, and learning some healthier coping skills.
CL
Are the unresolved issues as clear to your wife as they are to you? It sounds like she is accepting your advise which is good. I hope she won't resent you trying to fix things for her (giving her the message she can't do it by herself). Continue to be a good (and concerned) listener.
I thought it was interesting that you wrote in a previous note that she wants you to be more assertive about asking her to dance. That seems opposite of her behavior. However, maybe that would make her feel treasured. Hope you will try it on Friday!
My H would be thrilled if I did a whirlwind of cleaning....will have to get busy because he gets home tonight. I need control of part of my life, too! (BTW, thanks for your last post. It was helpful to get me directed toward a PMA. My thread locked; waiting to figure out where to start a new one).
Have I tried my best? Not yet. It's a work in progress, and I'm getting better at increasing my personal power.
CL
Hi CL - This is such a good outlook to have. Even now, 3 years into piecing, I find I need to remind myself that this is all still work in progress.
I'm glad you are going to the party. Keep the expectations low. You may want to play on a bit of mystery - suggest going in different cars because you have other plans after the party - see how W reacts. You may just be going for a drive, but hey, it counts as having plans
