Have you had a good night's sleep yet? Life always looks a good deal more managable when you see it through the lense of a good 8 to 12 hours of sleep.
So what happened at Easter? Did he come and ask you to go to family easter? Nice work. Although, he is so in denial isn't he? Poor lamb - he just doesn't know what he's doing and rather than really looking at what's going on around him, he's just got his head in the sand, doing whatever he can so as not to make waves.
I wonder if you are 'enabling' his denial? This is just something that I'm throwing out there, I don't know if you are or not, but I wonder about how he's able to just go to his family's place and you'll play along with him that nothing's wrong and he gets off scott free, then assauges his guilt by doing jobs around the house - but then goes off to OWs or where ever anyway? Do you know what I mean?
Good work on not interrogating him. I know that the 'perfect' DBer is supposed to be made of stone, and not ask any questions, but I think you did pretty well for the 'human' version.
I suspect he was so amiable to agreeing that you guys would be OK because you have been doing so well at DBing. He's not scared of you, he has felt that you've been making yourself less available to him and it's working. Remember when he said he didn't want to work on your marriage, was after you had been really into him and clingy and stuff - but he's said that he'll work on it, after you've been applying the DB principles. More proof that he's not made of stone, and perhaps not overtly, but intuitively he's noticing what's going on.
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At any rate, it bothered me a bit both that I felt like she was kind of pushing me to say I don't really want to be with him (she said "he IS a cheater - think about that").
She's not earning her fee unless she's making you uncomfortable and bothered. Her job is to ask you the hard questions. You don't have to like them, but you do have to explore them.
Keep at it Miss 2940831. You are doing well.
V
Never make someone a priority, who makes you an option.
I would like to add to something though...something for Tam to make as a goal...
Again, she said that when H left he went to OW's...assuming is not good...also, even if he did we might be assuming again to feel they are having sex every night...every other night...or maybe at all???...really no one knows...but more importantly right now Tam...for your own sake...you need to stop thinking about him and "her" together...this will create stress for you and cause you either to meltdown or do something that you WILL regret so much...
I do agree that you sound much better...and hey, 12 hours sleep in the last 3 days is actually better then I was getting...eventually the sleep will come...I know it did for me...and I think I am still catching up on it....
Take care and post details soon...I promise no scathing criticism...just gentle prodding if needed...
Alrighty...much better, my friend, but stop all of the analyzing of him...you aren't inside his head. YOU don't know what he is thinking.
Take it all with a grain of salt...
NOW...NO MORE R/M QUESTIONS NO MORE HUGS NO MORE AFFIRMATIONS
LEAVE ALL OUTSIDE OF BUSINESS TALK - OUT OF CONVERSATIONS
In the future - just take his answers as they are given...do not ask for clarification, rephrase, as you do...you still persist in talking too much...MEN CAN'T STAND CHATTY WOMEN... learn this please...don't be a little jumpy puppy waiting for your next little head pat, okay?
You had some good positives...now don't set it back by being pushy or too anxious...wait it out.
Again, thank you guys for your never-ending support. It means so much to me. I can't say that enough.
I got more sleep last night but have hit an exhaustion wall today. I am so incredibly tired that I can't even see straight. So I've come home early in hopes I can get to bed early tonight and hopefully get to sleep and get a decent night's sleep. We'll see.....
So still more details to follow, but regarding Easter, I did NOT call H regarding going to Easter. I worked hard to stick with my plan of not contacting him about it if HE did not bring it up. So he called Saturday afternoon (again, imagine that, him putting something off until the last minute...). He asked if I wanted to go to Easter or not. I asked him what HE wanted me to do, and he said he would like for me to go. I asked if it would be awkward for him, and he said it would be more awkward for him to explain why I was not there... So I agreed to go.
Then, after I got off the phone, I was sick the rest of the day knowing that I should have just told him I wasn't going to go. Why should I make it EASIER and less awkward for HIM? As I've said, he made this bed - he needs to deal with the fallout from it, not me. So the whole rest of the night I struggled with it, wanting to call him to tell him I'd changed my mind and then not being able to/wanting to muster up the strength to do it... On top of that, Saturday was the day that I was so exhausted that I was just on an emotional roller coaster, which wasn't helping matters any....
So I obviously never called him, AND on top of that, I had the NERVE to tell him that if he wanted to come and stay the night at our house to leave in the morning he could... (he said he was going down south to a poker game with the guys on Saturday night, and the Easter get-together was all the way down south (Ow's house is way further north than our house), so that is what brought it up. He said he might just stay at his friend's house down south and go to Easter from there and see me there. Anyway, that's when I said that. WTH was I thinking???? I wanted to take the words back as soon as I said them... I am just so desperate to be with him right now that my judgment gets clouded in the heat of the moment often times. However, at least I am finally RECOGNIZING the errors in my ways. Hopefully that is the first step in making positive changes.
So he did not come home that night and came home about an hour before we were supposed to leave on Easter morning. He didn't use his clicker to open the garage door and manually opened it. (WTH?) I don't know if he didn't want to alert me that he was home or what... Anyway, he just came in the door and sat on the couch downstairs - did not come up to let me know he was home. I went down to say hello and then got ready to go.
So that's it up until we left to go to the Easter get-together, and then you know the rest from there. So at least I did not call him to ask him about Easter, but I still should have told him that I wasn't going and should NEVER, EVER have said he could come home that night... Ugh... Baby steps...
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You had some good positives...now don't set it back by being pushy or too anxious...wait it out.
Yeah, a little too late for that unfortunately.... Ugh... So today I was bad once again... I was doing okay this morning, and then H came to the office for a while, and my desperation set in again. So I went down and asked him for a hug and then asked him if he is coming home soon (which I've already ASKED him...) He said he is working on it (excuses). I told him I miss him and he said "I know." And I told him I wanted to be a good wife. Anyway, I hugged him for a while, and he said I was trapping him in his office (he was getting ready to leave). So we moved to the hallway where the door is to leave, and he gave me one more hug.
So, big backslide today, and I know that, and I'm furious at myself... I didn't talk to him again until just a while ago. He called to ask me to get him the number and/or to call the dentist to schedule an appointment for him, as he broke his tooth at dinner tonight.
Virginia, I AM enabling him to continue this behavior and not face the music. While I'm sure this isn't a cakewalk for him, I'm not forcing him out of his comfort zone and making him deal with not having me around. That is not good. I'm also being too nice and clingy again over the last couple of days. Again, both not attractive to him I'm sure and also not pushing him away to make him curious and want me more. Again, I RECOGNIZE this and just need to work on not acting in the heat of the moment and doing/saying things I'm going to regret.
It's becoming increasingly evident to me that I need to move my office back home until this is resolved. When I'm home, I don't feel the need to snoop around his office and feel a sense of "peace" - kind of like when I was in Vegas. I don't worry so much about him and what he is doing/going/etc.
I need to figure out how to backpedal a little bit and make him think that I'm just not going to be the supportive wife standing my his side and waiting while he continues to sleep with another woman. Probably moving my office would be a really good and big step towards that, but now that what's been said has been said and he knows that I want him back still, I'm not sure what dialog I should use when/if he asks me about why I've moved my office. Realistically, as you know, I am so far behind right now that I'm not sure when I'll have the time to pack everything and get it organized to move, so it's not like it will be in the near future, but I hope to do it as soon as I can. It will be really inconvenient as far as being a lot farther away from places I need to go during the day, but it's worth it at this point...
I'm angry at myself and angry at him at the same time. I just know that, like everything else with this, he's going to put off doing anything about this with her until he's forced into it with some sort of deadline. At this point, there is no pending trip or whatnot to give him a deadline, and I'm not going to give him a deadline/ultimatum at this point, so I'm not sure what the best solution is. As Virginia said, he just doesn't want to rock the boat right now. So he'll probably stay with OW until he's "forced" to face doing something different. How I bring that about without putting out an ultimatum I'm not sure... AND I want him to come home only when he's ready and not force him to, as Lin pointed out...
AND I know I still have so much work to do on ME.... I'm starting to slowly at least grasp the concept of the things I do wrong and the changes I need to make but know I have so far to go. I don't know if it's possible to keep working on this if he comes home soon or not... It's just hard to say right now... And, even though he said he's working on it, he said that for 2 months or so before he came home for our first trip, so by him working on it, that probably means he thinks about it for 30 seconds a day or whatnot...
Anyway, gotta run for now and see if I can get some rest tonight and try to get a lot of work done tomorrow on a fresh mind. Let me know your thoughts as you have time, and I still want to respond to your other posts at some point... Bear with me... And know that I'm at least reconizing more rapidly the negative things I'm doing. I need to put more distance between us again and make him wonder/worry. Maybe another trip is in order without him, but I need to get a lot of work done before I would feel good about going away again... We'll see. Hopefully I'll have a fresh mind tomorrow and be able to think more clearly about all of this.
...Good Lord, girlfriend - are the Heavens opening up????????
P R O G R E S S .................................
You know what to do.................DETACH . DETACH . DETACH.... MOVE THE OFFICE HOME.....GET ANGRY WITH HIM........YOU ARE SO WILLING TO PLEASE, FOR ANY LITTLE CRUMB...YOU CAN'T FORCE HIM TO DO ANYTHING...HE HAS TO SEE YOU LOSE INTEREST IN HIM BEFORE HE WILL TURN TOWARDS YOU...you are too eager waiting for him... he knows this...turn away from him - he will follow...trust me.
Get some sleep...you're thinking more clearly, now...no Xanax!!! luv ya...
Yeah...today was a big no no...please get ahold of yourself and quit asking him if he is working on coming home and hugging him...you WILL send him running and then you WILL crumble like a cookie in the desert!!!...there won't be enough Xanax to get you through that!!!
Your right...you should have declined Easter invite...he should have to explain things...You know that...so I don't know how to help you anymore with that...
***** he's going to put off doing anything about this with her until he's forced into it with some sort of deadline.*****
WRONG!!!!...He is not going to do anything till he is SURE OF YOU!!!!....you can't force him to make a decision to RETURN...but you sure as heck can reinforce his decisions to STAY where he is with OW!!!
And again...you make me so nervous talking about wanting him to come home...I was so sure the time was right for me...I now see that in Feb...when H quit his job...things changed with him again...I feel used, abused (emotionally), deprived, not cherished, not cared for....believe me....it is better to be alone!...I can see H didn't have time to really finish fixing his own messes before I opened the door and welcomed him home...
PLEASE DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE I HAVE....I terrifies me that I have come this far and now wonder if I am going to loose it all....Tam...I don't think you could survive this all again...so please...I am literally begging you to DETACH, TAKE CARE OF YOU, FOCUS ON GETTING YOURSELF WELL GROUNDED, AND MAKE SURE HE IS WELL GROUNDED BEFORE HE COMES HOME!!!!...It is better to put him off then to throw open the door, your arms, your heart, your bed....I am eating my own words now....and believe me it makes me sick...and I am putting my children through it with me again!!!!
Tam...honestly...If you start down that path....I will have to detach from your posts...you see my sensitivity allows me to feel what others do...and right now....I couldn't carry that pain....so PLEASE...prepare yourself to be strong!!!!
Please read the thread between me and "Always" (or is it "Always14" ??) about taking a H back BEFORE they are ready to come back. If nothing has changed and it is fear/discomfort/guilt that drives them home (or forces them back) then YOU WILL HAVE WON THE BATTLE BUT LOST THE WAR!! Think about that.
Stop hoping for the crumbs 1210 is referring to, and thinking that's enough for a life long marriage. My aunt's H left her decades ago and for a long time she was crushed. He left her for OW and married the OW (after the OW's h died by suicide....uncle felt OW "needed" him more than aunt did, and left aunt with their 2 kids, so he could raise OW's "fatherless" kids....) ??!! ANYHOW....
Years passed and OW calls my aunt to ask her, where uncle is, as in, was uncle WITH aunt again?!!?? ( i.e., (STILL A CHEATING HUSBAND 8 YEARS LATER WITH 'LOVE OF HIS LIFE' WIFE #2)) My aunt told me it was at that moment she suddenly had a huge weight lifted off her shoulders. She realized that if she had stayed with uncle, she would STILL be up at night every time he "worked late" and she'd still have that stomach ache hurting her in the gut every time he acted the least bit "distant/cold/tired," etc....She was FREE!! What a relief and what a favor uncle had done AUNT... Yes, she remarried (27 years now )and is happy, btw. POINT is that by taking a man back IF he is not ready to come back and without any change on both your parts, you are fooling yourself. It won't work in the long run and you know what? LIFE IS SHORT, and it's too short to be in a crappy scary marriage asking "is he gonna leave me today or tomorrow or in 5 years...", ????? OUCH!!! Enough.
You know the one thing worse than being alone now??? is having him come back and then finding yourself is IN THIS EXACT POSITION 5 - 10 years from now, instead of 1) fixing the real problems and having a good marriage or 2) ending it and moving on in your life with the possibility of meeting a good guy or 3) moving on and discovering things about yourself you'd never have discovered if you were still in a BAD M, or 4) BEST CASE-- a combination of the above.
Oh, the other worse thing than being alone.....is wishing you were..... Regardless of who did what to whom, lose the scorecard and realize that the reality is, To reconcile you both have to recognize and want to rectify whatever roles you have in the problems of the M, AND you both have to forgive each other. I am not sure, but for me the forgiving part is taking longer than I thought AND is harder than the first part. You are still in the obsessing first part asking WHY? Why? why???????? There is no "why" for now, it just is. Cope with what you have and move forward or you will be STUCK in marital limbo until your h gets so sick of it and smothered by your needs, HE"LL bolt out the door.
Sorry to "yell" but I am in a hurry at the moment. You need to read and listen to what we are all saying. You can get yourself through this, but it really is something that ONLY YOU can do. Yes with God's help, ours, the counselors --and the xanax if the alternative is grovelling or doing something crazier.... BUT it is ultimately you that has to decide how you want your life to go. Be the author of your life, Tam. Stop letting this confused man write the novel of your life. Be done with this chapter and start writing the book of your life the way YOU want it to go. How will the next chapter be for you? What will Tam do?? Find out in the next chapter.... TAM is writing it!! j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Please listen to what everyone here is saying. My H and I are piecing and I am sooooo grateful to get Lin's perspective on not taking them back to soon. My H has been in the apt for seven weeks now and at first I could not wait for him to come home for good. Now I am starting to go through a lot of the feelings I repressed while being the good DB'er for him. I finally can be truly angry at him and sad in front of him - he is taking all my emotions and accepting them since he was not availble to do this until now. I am now questioning him on why he wants me - if it's just b/c the Ow let go first then I do not want him. I know I love him tons and want to be with him - but it cannot be one sided or it will not work. I am at the point where he needs to help me see where he is at and why he wants to be together again. I cannot have him back unless he can show me why he wants to be back. This last month has been good and bad - very bittersweet - I could just sweep everything under the rug but I do not want to end up here again in five years.
You are getting tons of good advice and yet you stick your head in the ground on most of it. I feel you are stalling the office move b/c you just cannot let go. What you fail to realize you cannot move forward until you truly let go - and actions speak louder than words. It's hard to fool this group - we have all BEEN THERE and we are only trying to help save you any unnecessary pain but sometimes we can only grow by going through the pain. Only you can change this by changing YOU-- NOT H, NOT OW only YOU!!!
Belive me the Piecing part isn't any easier - there are still as many doubts on our success...
Take care and try to really understand what we are all saying - I know it's so damn hard but at this point what is your alternative????
Me41 H44 * M16 yrs * D13 S10 8/06 H wants a D * 1/07 OW Truth 2/07 Searated * 7/07 H moved home First Thread Surviving Separation Now Piecing
You know, you are just killing any chance you have here. Asking him for a hug? Asking him when he's coming home? WTF? He TOLD you that you were "trapping him in his office" and you stayed there? I cringed when I read your post.
Do you not think we ALL wanted to do that? That it's EASY to do what we're telling you? IT'S NOT EASY. IT'S THE MOST FCUKING DIFFICULT THING IN THE WHOLE WORLD. For ALL of us who love our spouses. NOT just you. I promise you that. There are days I do not want to get out of bed, and my H is home. There just isn't enough Xanax in the world to make it all go away, honey.
But you HAVE to reign it in. HAVE to.
How appealing is a person who hovers? Who is all in your business? Who keeps trying to see where you are emotionally? Who is trying to SMOTHER you b/c they can't handle things without you? If you were dating a guy like you acted in your last post, you would quit answering the phone when he called.
Girl, I have been that person with my H. I understand what it feels like to be so emotionally desperate. I DO.
You can get all the great advice that these people are spending dispensing, but it's ultimately your CHOICE to ignore it.
This board is full of hurting, sharing, caring people, who come out of their own pain and try to help others. They are spending time with you; precious time reading and responding to each post. Please respect them, and yourself, by LISTENING and ACTING on what they are TELLING YOU.
I've been on this board for almost a year now (sigh) and I am no poster child for how to act, I assure you. Everybody struggles emotionally at times, but there is a fundamental difference between those who 'get it' and those who understand yet don't apply it. Not all of those who 'get it' save their M's, but they are so much happier in the end either way. At this point, you have nothing to lose by changing your behavior. Please do it.
Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Is 43:18-19
If it seems slow in coming, wait. It's on its way. It will come right on time. Hab 2:3
