New To SSM

[COG]

Nopkins,

Hey there you, it has been awhile. Great to hear form you!

Are you two back to living together?

Yep, we finally got it together last year. It's been about 14 months now. Everything is just grand except.......That's why I'm here in SSM. How about an update on your sitch?

Love,

COG

[NOPkins]

Hi, COG.

My situation has been normalized for a couple of years now, thanks for asking.

Since you have come over to the SSM forum, I was wondering what we could do for you. My understanding is that your wife has to "feel in love" before she will consider a deeper relationship with you.

The problem there is her misunderstanding of love. I work, even when I don't "feel" like it. Love is a lot like that. The feelings go and come, the decision to act is just that, a decision, feelings or no.

I understand that you are going to stay with your wife no matter what, but you will have to breach her entitlement and self deception at some point in time before you are going to reach her regarding the sexual issues.

Has she read Michele's SSM, or is she willing to read anything at all regarding relationships? Is she willing at all to work on the relationship?

All the best,
-NOPkins-

[COG]

Nopkins,

Since you have come over to the SSM forum, I was wondering what we could do for you.

Well I'm just not sure. If you can help me get one step closer to a regular sexual R with W, then that would be a big help.

The problem there is her misunderstanding of love. I work, even when I don't "feel" like it. Love is a lot like that. The feelings go and come, the decision to act is just that, a decision, feelings or no.

Well I know that, YOU know that, and Jesus said that, but my W is adamate about having the feelings. She's VERY closed minded about the "love is an action not a feeling philosophy." I quit trying to change her mind a LONG time ago.
It's funny because she trains like crazy for her competitions, whether she "feels" like it or not. She cleans house whether she "feels" like it or not. But if I point those things out to her she just goes into the dark zone. The door closes really fast.

Has she read Michele's SSM, or is she willing to read anything at all regarding relationships?

Nope! I gave her a copy of "Mars and Venus in the Bedroom" a few months back and asked her just to read the first Chapter. It ain't happening.

Is she willing at all to work on the relationship?

No. She's just surviving. She's got her life, her friends, her kid's, and she's not willing to work on ANYTHING and I mean ANYTHING that has to do with sex.

If I dwell on it I get pretty frustrated. I mean how many married women out there would just die to have their H's set up weekends away, couples retreats, C sessions, read R book's, and books to improve their sex lives. She's as stubborn as ten friggin mules. It's the way she was raised. Her mom bury's everything, won't talk about things, just puts on a happy face and ignores the problems. Her Dad is defensive about things, he's always got to be right, can never just admit he does'nt know it all.

I'm all into self improvement, she's not. The biggest step is in admitting one's weaknesses, and that's just too hard for some people.

So right now I'm holding out for a lightning bolt or something, cause I'm all out of ideas.

but you will have to breach her entitlement and self deception at some point in time before you are going to reach her regarding the sexual issues.

What do you mean by "her entitlement and self deception"?

Love,

COG

[NOPkins]

Hi, COG.

Quote:
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No. She's just surviving. She's got her life, her friends, her kid's, and she's not willing to work on ANYTHING and I mean ANYTHING that has to do with sex.
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Therein lies the rub. So the question becomes one of; what are you willing to do to unbalance the relationship?

I also understand that you feel that if you push in any way, that she is ready to walk.

Quote:
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What do you mean by "her entitlement and self deception"?
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The very fact that she maintains her position regarding "feelings" in your relationship indicates that she feels perfectly entitled to her opinion. That in and of itself, having an opinion, is not a bad thing, but since her opinion of feelings is generally in direct opposition to most commonly held psychological norms, one could call that self deception.

If you are going to affect your wife's attitude toward your relationship, then you are going to have to unbalance it somewhat. Since discussions haven't accomplished much, that leaves only more extreme measures.

If you take more extreme measures, then your wife walks. If I tell you how to manipulate her, then you and I break the rules.

That leaves one option, and that is to find or make a soft spot in her heart toward you. Somewhere that she can be reached. Do you think you know of a soft spot with her regarding you, or possibly toward you regarding the children?

-NOPkins-

[COG]

Nopkins,

I also understand that you feel that if you push in any way, that she is ready to walk.

No I don't think that way completely. I believe that if I give ultimatums, I'm sunk. But I'm not afraid to push a little. But it just seems that the less I push, the more comfortable she is. So I'm inclined to think in opposites.

That in and of itself, having an opinion, is not a bad thing, but since her opinion of feelings is generally in direct opposition to most commonly held psychological norms, one could call that self deception.

That's definately one of her weaknesses. Once her opinion is formed, Hillary Clinton could'nt get her to change her mind. Whether it's about another person, or an issue or a personal value. Does'nt matter, she was raised that to change your mind or consider you may be wrong about something, just was'nt done, major taboo. In her family that would be worse than death.

When our kid's were young her mom told me to never change my mind once I told the kid's something. Don't ever give in. So, she comes from a long line of prideful people who have great difficulty accepting the fact that they might be wrong. And even if it's big and bold and right in their face, they'll find a way to push the blame onto somebody else. They just won't even consider anything else but what's in their heads.

Now, that said, I still love them all to pieces. But it's a hard thing to deal with so we've got to be creative if we're gonna make any headway.

That leaves one option, and that is to find or make a soft spot in her heart toward you.

She'd be the first to admit I've already done that, and I continue doing that. It's not so soft when I'm making sexual advances, but when I allow her space, allow her to be who she is, accept her unconditionally, then she stays real soft.

Do you think you know of a soft spot with her regarding you, or possibly toward you regarding the children?

It's very important to her that we stay together as a family. She knows I'm a great dad, and we nurture each other's R with the kids. She's a great mom too. I'll admit though I think at least a small part of why she's still wants me around is so that another woman won't be able to have me. She knows how good I am, and doesn't want to give that up.

I initiate about 75% of the physical contact between us although she does'nt resist me unless it goes beyond just friendly touching. She'll initiate a goodnight or goodbye kiss or hug sometimes. I've told her how important it is for me that she would initiate some contact. A hand on the shoulder, some small token. She's done well for a day, but then it stops so I'm not going to ask anymore.

My current plan of attack is to do NOTHING. That's one thing I really have'nt tried for an extended period. I'm going to accept her, and my sitch just the way it is. I'm going to let go my selfishness, my neediness, my frustration, and find only the good in life. I'm not going to initiate or even mention anything sexual, but I will continue the friendly touching because she's OK with that. And in six months she'll be naked and begging me to have sex with her.

Either that or I might just grow big enough balls to say goodbye.

Have a great Easter!

COG

[Baltoman]

My current plan of attack is to do NOTHING. That's one thing I really have'nt tried for an extended period. I'm going to accept her, and my sitch just the way it is. I'm going to let go my selfishness, my neediness, my frustration, and find only the good in life. I'm not going to initiate or even mention anything sexual, but I will continue the friendly touching because she's OK with that. And in six months she'll be naked and begging me to have sex with her.

Either that or I might just grow big enough balls to say goodbye.

COG

If you can pull off that strategy for 6 months you will have the balls for anything. The ability to find the good in life and accept things as they are without getting resentful is a great strategy but it takes a LOT of strength and willpower to keep the positive outlook and to keep the resentment from creeping in. I know it is something that would help with me, but I cannot seem to pull it off for an extended period of time.

[frank_D]

You're still working on building attraction, right?

[NOPkins]

Hi, COG.

Quote:
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My current plan of attack is to do NOTHING.
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That plan is very likely to net you exactly what you invest in it - nothing.

If you are willing to push the envelope, I can help you with a plan. First, we will need to play "20 questions" so we can all get a picture of just where your relationship is.

If you don't want to push, then I doubt you are going to get very far. That is my honest opinion. I have read your posts.

Your call.

Quote:
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... but when I allow her space, allow her to be who she is, accept her unconditionally, then she stays real soft...
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Of course she does. Nothing is being demanded of her. That's not the "soft" I am looking far. I am talking about what melts her heart toward you. What makes her receptive toward you?

All the best,
-NOPkins-

[Heywyre]

COG - she knows you are a great dad (and a lot of other "great things" too from what you have told us) BUT, here is the kicker... is she just keeping you on the hook, so to speak, until the kids are gone? And then what? Will she say, "thanks for helping me bring the kids up, now I want my own life and it doesn't include you?

As much as your W and my H could have been from the same family, the one thing that is different is that we don't have any kids at home so it either survives between us, or it doesn't. At this point I can't tell (mainly because I am in a dark place right now and having a hard time pulling myself out - mainly due to my little "find" the other day, which you will be delighted to know, I have NOT said anything to him about but man, oh man, it's killing me)

[COG]

Well I think I probably shifted the balance today, did'nt last long "doing nothing". W and I were at a function this afternoon. She was touchy feely with anyone that came near her, except ME. Not in a sexual way mind you, just friendly, but it just made things clear to me.

So I came home with a piece of furniture that we'd discussed a couple of weeks ago, and she gives me a dirty look and the cold shoulder. So I was a little dumbfounded because we'd already discussed it, then I lost it. Said I was done with this, and left to take the chair back. She called me right away and said the chair was OK, bring it back, and I told her if she wanted it she could go get it herself.

Well I took awhile to calm down and then I called and asked her if she could talk. So we took a drive. I told her I was'nt done with our M, but I was done being [censored] on, and if this was the way it's going to be then I AM done with the M. I laid out a few times recently when she was rude. I told her that I admit I screwed up in the M, but I'd changed, made amends, and I'm DONE being [censored] on for it.

There were a few other things, basically it was no holds barred. I was calm, and I was honest. Well she apologized several times during the evening for being mean, and cold. She said she hates being that way to me, said it's not like her. I had one surprise. I said that I know exactly where I failed the M, that I'd taken steps to change, but that I was'nt sure if she knew where she failed. Her response was, "yes I do." She went on to say she put everything before me, and she was a poor communicator. The surprise is that after five years of trying to put this M together, that's the first time I've ever heard her say that she put everything before me. Well, alleleuia, it only took half a decade for her to admit that. Now you see what I have to deal with here.

I'm not making any predictions. I know she does'nt want a D, but she does'nt want to change either. If things don't change then I'll be leaving, I'm pretty sure about that. One thing is for sure, I'm not taking any more crap from her.

I'm doing fine, don't worry about me. I'm kickin ass and taken names. God's will be done.

Love,

COG