Valentines day massacre

[outtaluck]

Thanks LN...you're right, crazy is the word :-)

So I didn't sign this stupid letter....tell ya what I did. I wrote my own letter saying I was 100% committed to making this marraige work, to meeting every one of her needs, and to making her happier than she's ever been before, no matter what it takes" and I signed that... I got a laugh out of her at least. BUT, it did open up a sort of a dialog, so I don't think it was a mistake...maybe this letter of hers was her way of getting to talk?? Who knows.. but we did talk about alot of things...and at one point she said she would want to see one day if I really meant what I wrote.. So, yeah, I don't THINK I made anything worse by writing the letter...and instead of going out she did come home and cook for us...didn't hide in the other room as usual...stayed with me, but didn't say much.

She kept looking at me as if I was going to say something....and I wish I had the magic words to say....but I'm kinda afraid to say anything, y'know?

So anyway, back to being the ghost today....

In the name of GAL...I got a car :-) Its a POS, cost $50.00 but its a baby step... got the insurance today...got to get it registered next. W actually helped me get the car...so that was nice of her.

I finally got in touch with my friend...well, not exactly, but his wife...she's a really cool person, easy to talk to, so I told her my tale of woe. I'd rather they hear it from me anyway and it seemed like W was going to tell them. She said she'd make sure my buddy calls me today so I can tell him too... not looking forward to it but I think its time...

Went to the casino Sat...with my parents...was cool, but not the experience I expected....got to go back with some friends I think... I do know that living with these people will drive me insane....I've got to find better solution.

Odd how you see things differently now...I kept noticing all these happy couples...felt really lonely...missing her...wishing she was there with me, even as just a friend...

Pathetic I know... I do have more moments of strength though...not a whole lot more, but more....and I keep it together a whole lot better when I'm around her.. I still don't feel like doing any of the things I used to do all that much....feel like I need something totally new to get this out of my mind. Don't know what yet...but I'm searchin'

[*KS*Chick*]

So....I'm slow, migraine-al, tired (migraine meds) and haven't read through all five pages.

I'll focus on you. From your last post, you sound good. You sound like you know what to do -- now it's just a waiting game, which is the sucky part.

[LoginName]

OL,
Hope things aren't too crazy now. I still warn you not to think to hard on what she is doing/thinking/feeling etc. Detach. Work on yourself. Please yourself (not in a selfish, mean way, but try to do what YOU want and think is best. Try not to do something because it MAY affect her or change her).

at one point she said she would want to see one day if I really meant what I wrote..

My W has said similar things to me too. It looks like your letter worked, but see my first paragraph. Don't forget that it takes 2 to make a M work and 2 to mess it up. It's good to realize the mistakes you've made and change them the best you can. Don't do it expecting that she will suddenly see the light and be madly in love with you. It won't happen. It won't. It's hard to accept, but true.

Given time, a lot more time than you'd like, she may fall in love with you again, a little bit. Then maybe a little more.

You can't force it, control it, or hurry it. Work on yourself. Who are you? Who do you want to be? Not for her,for yourself.

Since your kids are older, how does this affect them? Are they doing OK? I ask because if you and your W can be friends and work together for the kids benefit, I think that is best for them. You wrote

W actually helped me get the car...so that was nice of her

so maybe you two can work together. That's a good sign. (Warning! it's not a sign that she wants you or loves you.)

Can you really get a car for $50? I need to get my S a car. $50 bucks would be great.

I hope your friend helps you and supports you on this. Friends are tricky. Even if they have your best interest at heart, they may not give the best advice. I say that because some of the mistakes I've made have been due to listening to my mom and my friend. They've planted ideas or feelings that have caused me to do the wrong things (not their fault of course. I didn't have to act on those ideas). So how is your buddy?

Dude, I hear you about parents. My dad died a few years ago, but I still have my mom to deal with. She is great in many ways. I know she loves me and supports me, but she is really hard for me to be around for long periods of time (more than 4 hours). She drives me nuts. When I got out of the Navy, my family moved in with my folks for a bit while I looked for a house and job. I took the first job and house I could find to get us out of there! I feel your pain.

...I kept noticing all these happy couples...felt really lonely...missing her

I can tell you true that it does get easier. You learn to make yourself happy more. You still miss her (god, how I miss her, even with her in the house), but the pain becomes less sharp. Those happy couples, love songs, movies, etc., start to lose their sting after a while.

You aren't pathectic. You're doing well. You're strong. I gotta tell you though -- if you asked your W how your doing, you would probably be surprised that she thinks your still a basket case. I thought I was doing so well keeping my emotions under control and such, and my W gave me a grade of D. (I thought I was a B+!) I guess that's better than an F, but it made me see that I wasn't doing as well as I thought I was. It doesn't matter though. It doesn't matter what she thinks or her opinion. You know you're being strong (we know it too )

I'm being a little negative today I think, and it's because I want you to really try to focus on yourself and detach. I think it's important to stop trying to please her, win her back, change her. You can't. She's on a journey and she's on it by herself. You've got to start your journey.

It's important to do this, and it's hard. You'll slip many times, and that's OK. Just keep yourself pointed in the right direction. You are important. You matter. You are worthy. Her actions don't affect that, they don't.

wishing you the best, OL.

[outtaluck]

Well, my friend never called...talked to his wife and she said he feels like he doesn't know what to say. I can understand...before all this happened to me I would just dole out the better fish in the sea line...your better off without them kind of advice. If nothing else, this experience has taught me compassion like I've never had.

Had another good talk with his wife...she really is a good ear. She gets alot of grief from people because at first impression she can come off as an airhead...but she's a really smart, deep woman. I'm lucky to have her as a friend. She said that our sitch is making them remember to not take each other for granted. So...if my pain can help someone...I don't know...helps a little, in a wierd way.. y'know?


Yeah, I was really lucky to get that car for $50. Friend of mine's wife left him (I can't get away from this stuff!!! )and he can't drive...it was sitting in the condo lot without a plate...so before the cops tagged it he figured he'd let me have it. Odd thing...the first car I bought with my W only cost me $50. I've come full circle and haven't gotten anywhere....

The kids are really kind of quiet around me...I fear she may be badmouthing me or something....I don't want to get into defending myself against her with my own kids. Even though they're older, it still can't be good for them. I won't play the kids in the middle game. They are smart kids...and they know me...no matter what she says the truth will come out in the end. I'm trying to take the high road here.... After I'm gone they'll be no one else to blame.

I don't take anything she does anymore as a sign of hope....All I see anymore is just this vacant look in her eyes...breaks my heart...but I know she's not there. We went shopping yesterday and stopped for a bite at a sandwich shop....which for her to spend that much time with me lately is unusual...she must have been really hungry. I kept trying to have some kind of conversation...not R stuff...just trivial stuff...and she just kind of sits there with that lost look. I've had better conversation in bars with falling down drunks... Just sucks is all I'm sayin'

I'd agree with the basket case analogy....I'm sure she does think I am....I think I am...I mean, I'm doing better in some areas...considering, but that happy confident guy that was here just a mere couple of months ago is a vauge memory.... I miss him as well as her.

How do you get over blaming yourself?...seems to be my problem lately. I look at her vacant look...and it just seems that I caused that... Its like if your kids were depressed you might feel like a bad parent... Thats how I feel regarding her. I know intellectually that its probably not me... but she's in pain and it hurts me so much to see it....let alone any thoughts that I contributed to her pain whatsoever...

I know there's better days ahead...with or without her...I've still got my goals and I'll reach them regardless. Its a long climb up that mountain...and if I have to do it with pain in my heart and tears in my eyes...I will get to the top...if only to see whats on the other side :-)

Thanks LN...your advice is always right on. I feel like I'm whining alot when I post, and I've never been like that...its good to get this junk out of my head and get some feedback. I do take it all to heart and I really appreciate your comments.

[Alaska]

Hi, another heartbroken newbie here :-)

First I want to thank God for this forum...it has literally saved my life. I was in such a bad state before I found this place and the DB books.

My story starts on our 20th anniversary...Valentines day of all days. I guess the day was too much for my wife and she couldn't keep up the "act" anymore and told me that I wasn't a good husband or father...that she loved me, but not like a husband...more like a friend. Well...it didn't really hit me...I thought we'd have to work some stuff out but I didn't think it would ever get to the point of breaking up. It hurt me so bad to know that she was so unhappy...I really felt like I was the worst husband ever. Still, we exchanged presents...I got a pair of gummy handcuffs (wtf??) and I gave her a pot of roses...that ironically died after two days...its still there...dead and all...and I still water it..like our dead relationship. It was the first major snow storm that day and we never put snow tires on the car. The car had a heck of a time getting around and couldn't even get off our street. I pushed that car four blocks to the main road so that we wouldn't miss our Valentine dinner. For some reason that dinner meant so much more to me that day. And things were pleasant...I swear I saw that same ol' twinkle in her eye.
SO you know what I did right? Thats right...Pour on the I love you's and smother her to heck...ugh, bad move I know. It progressed from lets be friends and still have sex...to I want you out so I can clear my head. I'm not out yet, have to the end of April...less she changes her mind again.

I post in the MLC because thats now what I think is going on. She started going out drinking with friends and would say that they have so much but she has crap. Their husbands give them everything... Well I would but I'm not financially able to...she always seemed so satisfied before. She said she gave me hints...but what the heck is a hint gonna do for me....come out and tell me you're not happy and I'll do everything I can to make things right. Not now when you feel "dead" inside.

I don't know...I'm so confused..I do know she has another guy. Don't know if its physical (she swears no) but they talk for hours on the phone...and what I overhear makes me sick. I know he's an older guy and I sort of suspect he's married or somehow involved. It hurts to hear her sound so happy and giggly talking to him. Its a good thing I don't know who he is cause I'm afraid of what I might do. ( and I know...its not worth it...but still)

Anyway...I think I'm rambling on too much. My head isn't really working right now, but thanks for listening.

With all due respect.if she is playing teenager on the phone with another GUY, why are YOU leaving?? Kick HER ass out. Stand up, man!

[Alaska]

OH wow!! Ok, I knew about the mood changes...really...but damn!

So, Fri she gets her hair done to go out on the town. I say nice things, how pretty she looks, etc. She wasn't going with OM so I was supportive and told her have a great time. She comes home and the car has problems..running rough....that means we can't take D to college tour. She gets car fixed...simple spark plug problem...but now has no plans and its just us in the house....but we were getting along really well. Until...

She said...so did I look good last night...I said she did indeed...through in some well meant compliments...then I said it...As the words came out I knew it would be bad....couldn't bring em back....I said she looked really good...the only thing that would have made her look better was her ring...owww...

She said now you're starting to bug me...I

YOU are bugging HER because you asked your WIFE to wear her wedding rings?? Of course, you're bugging her, because you are showing how DESPERATELY you need HER. You DO NOT. Are you married or not?? If so, rings on.....if not, her ass out the door.

[/quote]So yeah, the naked stuff and the massages...I've been letting them give me hope.[/quote]

Why are you still massaging HER. Is she returning the favour??


[/quote]It's like the closer we get the farther she runs the next day[/quote] Exactly. And the MORE you distance yourself, the closer she will (may) run!

[/quote]It's like I saw her for the stranger she is for the first time....anything I'm clinging to is just a memory....nothing more...[/quote]

Then it's time for you to make her sh8t or get off the pot.........you ARE my wife, or you are NOT.


[/quote]Still massaged her last night...she couldn't sleep [/quote]

MAN, she's got it good!! Ignore you all day, then have you kiss her ass to rub her back at night!! No wonder she hasn't left........yet.

[/quote]Enough philisophical rambling from me..[/quote]

I agree. Time to look at this for what it IS and make a decision.

[outtaluck]

Thanks Alaska,

I have to be the one to leave as we rent house from her grandmother...so family is sticking together.

I would have left, but I really have no place to go...money is a big issue as we've always been living week to week and I put all I had into the household. Right now I have no job...just been laid off....and although I just bought a junk car, its still not registered yet. She has given me till the end of the month to go... I'm taking advantage so I can search online for jobs and to sell stuff...also do not want to live with parents....looking desperately for other options.

It seems so long ago that I was massaging her...but those have stopped. She doesn't even sleep in the same room any more. She does a good job of avoiding me when she is home...which is less and less.

I know what it is...and its nothing good. Once I am out I don't imagine looking back. Meanwhile I'm just trying to deal with the pain and still keep moving forward somehow....

[LoginName]

OL,
You asked how to get over feeling it's your fault. One way is anger. You can get angry over what she has done and is doing to you. Anger can be a helpful emotion. It's dangerous, but it can be healing too.

My advise: feel some anger, but not around her. Take it someplace else, express it to friends, write about it here or in a journal. Punch inanimate things (I've beaten the crap out of the roof of my car, until my hand started hurting too much. Pillows might be a better idea ;)).

I think the following applies to all of us. We need to take responsibility for what our part in this mess is. We need to examine ourselves and our actions and own what we did wrong. Then we need to resolve to be better and correct those flaws. We don't need to beat ourselves up over it and martyr ourselves - that's not healthy or productive. We need to ask forgiveness of our spouse, then move on. One way I remember reading about this makes sense to me; put all the things you've done wrong mentally into a box. Present the box to the person you've wronged (this can be purely in your own mind, or by talking to her, a letter, whatever). Ask for forgiveness, then mentally walk away from it. You've done all that you can. Now they get to decide if they will forgive you or not. If they don't, that might be sad, but not that important. You need to forgive yourself and move on. Learning from your mistakes, but not fixating or beating yourself up over them.

Also, work on forgiving her. Do this not for her, or because you're so saintly, but because you need to for you. Feel the anger, process your feelings, then forgive her. It doesn't matter if you tell her you forgive her, or if she believes you. Do it for youself.

Another way, and the way I'm looking at my sitch, is to think of this mess as something that happened. I didn't cause it, she didn't do it, it just happened. To maybe go over board here; my M was like a house my W and I built in New Orleans. It was a good house, but we didn't take care of it enough. Then Katrina hit. We didn't cause Katrina, it just happened. We can learn from Katrina and build a new house together in a different place, on higher ground, even build separate houses. We can rebuild right where we were and risk another Katrina. The point is, Katrina hit. No one person is to blame. We can learn from it and move on, or play a blame game or sit around and cry about it. (some crying is necessary, but so is moving on, if we want to be healthy and happy in the future).

Having said all that, nothing you did forced her to have an EA or PA. She chose to do that. She might have her reasons, but she is responsible for her actions just like you are for yours.

so take responsibility for your part in the path your M/R has taken. Realize it wasn't just you who made the mistakes. Get angry if you need to, but the faster you let it go the better. Then learn, change and grow.

I wish I could give great advise about where and how to live. I know if you are optimistic, you'll have a better chance of finding a job. I know it's hard to be optimistic. You're doing well though.

Alaska makes some good points, and I think you need to consider them. It's one path to take. If it's what you want to do, then do it. I recommend against it though. I recommend against ultimatums. You're here, so it seems you would like your M/R to work out. Ulitmatums don't help that process. If you've had enough (only you can say when that is, and I wouldn't blame you if you have had enough. If you decide you have had enough, wait 24 hours before acting on that feeling, OK?) then do what you have to do. Either way, you should follow the same game plan; detach, GAL, work on yourself, live your life. That's the cool part. This stuff works and is good advise for all outcomes, even if you and your W reconcile (although then you might not want to detach too much).

You're an interesting guy OL. Feel free to express yourself here, whine all you want, I'll listen to whatever you have to say nonjudgementally. I wish the best for you. Good luck.

[outtaluck]

Thanks again LN,

No, I don't think I'll be issuing any ultimatums at this time....as I know I would be the loser in that game. She has told me point blank that the marraige is dead and she's done... Soooo, that is what I would expect from any ultimatums.

She talks of this fantasy where were sitting around someplace, her and her new guy, me and my new girl, just having fun...better friends than husband and wife. I don't see it happening...

I don't know anymore.... She says that I'm being selfish, thinking only of myself...why should she stay in a miserable marraige just to make me happy...and, well....I don't have an answer for that....I just don't.

This is where those insecurities pop up. Blaming myself for all this....that the other guy really is a wonderful guy and maybe I should at least be grateful that she is happy with this guy....can't compete with him anyway at this point.

I tried the anger thing...got a punching bag in the celler that has gotten a heck of a workout lately... but I kinda end up angry at myself for F-ing this up.

So, I'm gonna try looking at this as something that just happened...see how that goes.

She still wants to be friends sometimes...talking with me like I was one of her girlfriends. Telling me about her "date" with OM where they went...how much $$ he spends on her...how they sometimes fight.... Funny...he makes jokes that she takes seriously and gets pissed....JUST LIKE ME. Ugh....its like trying to keep a smile on my face while the dog is biting my leg.

But.... I like that we have some kind of dialog... I try to just listen without commenting much....figuring if I can see what this guy is doing that I'm not might help me somehow. Its hard though...getting a play by play of how he's sweeping her off her feet... Its harder being strangers though. So, it might be best if I could just be her friend without me saying something stupid....

Sometimes I think this is another test....for her to see if I can rise up and be the better man that I say I can be...

Good news...car registered....the kid is back on the road...the job search goes into high gear tommorrow

[NewHorizons]

Outaluck,

My 2 cents:

"I don't want to hear about you and your adulterous lover and what you do when you should be home tending your husband and marriage. Now, do you have anything else you'd like to discuss?"

There is no need for you to be her "girlfriend" and listen as she dribbles on about her illicit activities. Detach when that happens and leave the room if necessary. You need to draw a small line here and make it stick. Anything else goes, but you don't need this cr@p.

Just me, your mileage may vary.

OTB