Looking backward but only to look forward SIX

[sage]

OK, I'm back for a super quickie First off, Betsey, thank you for your thoughtful post! I cannot do it justice at the moment but you certainly hit the nail on the head again and again. The short version is that I AM working on my resentment and scorekeeping as I know that is definitely the way to alleviate some of the issues. Also, as you mentioned WOA go far with h so I have kicked those up quite a few notches.

Things are much better. Some of it is that Charlotte isn't sick or teething in a particularly painful way and some of it is definitely what we've been doing at home...keeping up (religiously) with date night and as I mentioned above, giving out WOA. Even h has been great about that...the other day he even diagramed how complicated my days are (with the work/daycare/etc deal).

Also, Oldtimer...thank you so much for helping me to focus ...oops...dd is awake..I'll keep you in suspense!

Sage

[oldtimer]

... feeling the suspense...

[Underdog]

Yeah, me too! Inquiring minds want to know... ;-)

Betsey

[sage]

OK, I'm back...sorry for the total MIA act. What I was going to say was that the idea to simplify dinner time really resonated with me...not so much in regards to what I'm making for DD but that I was trying to pull her dinner together, her meals for the next day, wind down from my day, and listen to h wind down from his day all at the same time. I really wish that he would hold off from telling me the details of his day until she's fed and settled playing but how do you tell the guy who used to never talk to just hold off talking for a while????

Anyway, I'm back today in total acceptance of the fact that I NEED to be DB'ing every day and that I NEED at least one visit to this site every day to make that happen. I guess I require the journalling to keep my goals in the forefront because it is NOT working just freestyle. I thought we were doing better and I suppose in some ways we are but in someways I feel like we have gone WAY back in the time machine and I do not like it.

We've continued with our date nights and that has been going really well. I think it's a definite positive for us. But, honestly, it hasn't been enough. We're still at odds about many things...much of them centered around DD, how much energy and attention she takes (and presumably how much energy and attention that takes away from him). He doesn't seem to GET that if he would just help out more at home that I would have more energy for him...I know, I know, it's the same old refrain and I swear I am trying to keep my wits about me but trying to tend to her, work full time, and keep him happy is leaving me with nothing in the tank. I'm hoping it's that I'm expending my energy in the wrong places and that if I can refocus, well, things will get better.

I've also been panicking lately a little about some of h's "friends" at work...not in the same "oh, Sage is jealous" way but in the sense of, is there really, truly some hint of something, if not actually going on, maybe being "flirted" with (pun sort of intended)? Maybe someone who's just a wee bit too friendly and chatty and "oh, give a call when you can"? I briefly reverted to some bad behaviors and as expected they sent me back to THAT place of feeling like crap, despairing, even crying like crazy in the bathroom at work yesterday. I cannot, cannot, cannot, will not, deal with all of that again.

So, I swear, I don't even know where to start. I posted goals last time I was here, right, a million years ago? Oh, I just looked at them and I don't think they're what I need to be focusing on...I need to be focusing on getting h more attention and bandwidth from me, relaxing my standards a bit about getting things done (ok, so that sort of resonates with the goals of late).

1. Figure out very specific ways to give h attention: he mentioned that he loves getting text messages from me so do that! LISTEN completely when he's talking. Consider saying "Let's talk about this after DD is settled so I can really pay attention to what you are saying" and then show him that agreeing to that pays dividends. Remember items that he mentions and ask about them.

2. Get back into the mindset that not everything has to be done now. There are certain Must do's and certain can be done later. STOP acting as though everything is a crisis. Wait a beat before jumping in and doing something. Let him get the chance to accomplish something and then praise lavishly.

3. He said the other day that it's "my way or the highway" with DD. BACK OFF when he is with her. Give them more time alone (even though he will balk at this). Figure out some specific tasks that HE does related to her instead of doing them all yourself.

Ok, gotta run. BBL. Sage

[RedHeadWife]

Adding a child/children to an M is very difficult. You are very lucky though that you have the knowledge from DB so that you don't allow the stress, etc. that is added when you add a child to the mix to ruin your M. I didn't read your entire thread, but I did get there was an A, but not sure the details of it and I can understand how the anger will come back toward H for that during very stressful times when you feel like you are shouldering everything. Unfortunately for me, I am now here because we ended up having 3 boys in the span of 7 yrs. We got pregnant immediately after we got married w/ our first. I didn't have the knowledge to make sure I kept my H and our M on the front burner during the raising of the boys (we're still raising - oldest is 7, youngest just turned 1), however, I believe a lot of my H's "gripes" are validated, however, I always thought I was doing what I was supposed to be doing -- raising our children, but making sure that the H is still taken care of is also part of our job as W.

Doesn't necessarily sound fair, I thought H should be taking care of me, but he thought he was doing that, but since I wasn't taking care of him, that was the downfall of our M. Vicious cycle, but like I said, at least you know what needs to be done for your H and your M and that's the first step. Doing it is not always easy and it does seem like the W has to do a lot of the "work," however, I guess we are the superglue of the entire family in a way.

Anyway, you sound like you are doing great w/ knowing what you need to do, but it's not always that easy so it's nice that you have here to vent!

[amd]

Wow, Sage, your plate is really full!

I think those 3 goals sound great. You already have an idea of what to do to get there. It also sounds like they will play into each other, i.e. giving him more time alone with DD will help you not jump in so much, or spending time together with a glass of wine after she's down and listening will give you the opportunity to praise him, etc.

I HATE hearing about this "friend." Can you tell us objectively how H reacts to her approaches? What does he get from her that he doesn't get from you? And is there a way to put sugar in her gas tank without getting caught?

[kml]

And is there a way to put sugar in her gas tank without getting caught? \:\)

LOL!!!!!

Ellie

[oldtimer]

((((Sage))))

Skip this message if you don't want to hear some very tough things. This isn't a 2x4, it is a 4x8.

Some things really seem blaringly obvious. Perhaps this is a bit of projection on my part because your H and my XH are so much alike, but this is how it sounds to me....

There is a big problem. You are sounding so alone in your M. Not surprising as you sound like the only adult in your M.

Why in the world are you doing all the parenting? Why in the world are their arguments about the baby's needs? A baby's needs aren't really very flexible -- constant attention, multiple feedings, frequent diaper changes, lots of love. What is to fight about??? Why are you the one to dole out special parenting tasks to H as ones you think he can be trusted with? Why is there ANYTHING he can't do himself with respect to the baby other than nurse her??? He is her father, isn't he? You reek of not trusting or respecting him as a father, and I can think of few things that would feel worse to a man than that.

Look, I KNOW your H is acting like a child. But, you are playing into the pattern by treating him like a child, accepting the parenting role by being both his and DDs mother, and accepting his childish behavior.

The thing is, neither of you will want the other as a marital PARTNER, nor as a LOVER, nor even as an INTIMATE FRIEND. Freud was WRONG. Adult males do not want to sleep with or marry their mothers. You are not feeling respect for H, and H is not feeling respect from you.

Your M is not going to be stable, vibrant, passionate, or happy until you break this dynamic. You think something is going on at the office in some way? Well, as well as anyone else here, you know you are very likely right. If you don't think it is an A, but something possibly headed that way, you are probably right. Truly, how many people have you seen here who are wrong about such things? Can you think of more than one case? Why would it be happening again? Because your H has lost his partner and lover and moved back in with his mother.

My guess is that his constant rant about you mothering too much is really about you mothering HIM too much.

Insist he step up to the plate, be a co-parent and your PARTNER, your EQUAL. Have you talked to him about your unhappiness? Have you worked TOGETHER to find a solution? Did you tell him about your meltdown? Or, are you still sole caretaker of the M as the only responsible adult in it? Have you said, "H, I am really scared about how things are going between us. Can we work together to get to a better place?"

Maybe some of the DB tools are for life. But, being the only one working on the M and not sharing your true thoughts and feelings for fear of being open with H are not things that should be going on years after reconcilliation.

You need to find ways to appreciate and respect H as a MAN and as a FATHER. If you can't, then your M isn't going to work.

This is hard to say, but I cringe when I read your thread lately. Things sound exactly like they would have been with my XH if we had reconciled and had a child. I am sooo grateful to have such a different life than that would have been. And, I don't think I would have ever gotten to a place where I really did respect XH as a man or a father.

But, there is an important difference in your case. I think you DID get to a place where you were in a real PARTNERSHIP with H, with passion and respect. So, I do think there is hope for your M. You simply must get back to that place.

BOTH you and H have slipped back into the pre-DB parent-child roles. It is not surprising -- you had to start parenting again and it spread to H. H probably was a little jealous of that kind of attention (or any attention) and slipped into a child role to get it. Ewwwwww.

Here's an idea... Leave him with the baby on Saturday for a few hours WITHOUT giving him instructions. Arrange for a babysitter Saturday night. Go buy some sexy lingerie while he is watching the baby, along with stuff for a romantic dinner. Take the baby to the baby sitter. Go home and cook dinner for H in your new purchases and treat him like a MAN and your LOVER. Talk dirty in his ear when you bend over temptingly to light the candles.

Of course, if he is guilt-ridden over his extra-curricular activities, whether they are mental fantasies, vague flirting, EA/PA, online crap, etc..., doing something like that will get you nothing but hostility.

Also, if the idea of doing something like that turns your stomach, then you REALLY need to get to a place where you can view your H as a real MAN. (I mention this because such a scenario would have turned my stomach with XH.)

I really really really wish you the best Sage. I hope you and H can get back to an M that is a real R between two passionate adults deeply committed to each other. But, while I can see pretty clearly what looks to be going wrong in your R because of my R with XH, I can't really tell you how to get to the place in which you love and respect H as a MAN and as a FATHER because I really don't think I could have done that with XH. And, your H reminds me too much of XH.

But, again, there is the important difference that YOUR H was able to step up to the plate and you two were able to find a great R as adults.

With respect to the A you are afraid of happening again, you say you "can't" you "won't" go through that again. Well, that is really not directly in your control.

Get back to a place where you are responsible for your own world and your own happiness. Get back to a place where you trust yourself enough with being OK that you can truly be emotionally vulnerable to H.

Hanging out in the safety net doesn't make for a good life. Time to climb the ladder and get back on that tightrope again. You will be OK.

[oldtimer]

P.S. Have you ever read "How to Conquer Your Critical Inner Voice?" If not, you may find it helpful.

[sage]

Oh, my, goodness...did I ever need that....I had never really seen that that is what H and I did successfully the first time around...broke free of "those" roles but you are absolutely right. Key is can we do this again? I would say yes.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I have an entirely new perspective on this right now.

I don't have time to do it justice right now but I will be back.

Sage

PS Just put the book on hold at the library.

PPS Waves to everyone that came by! All appreciated!