I just wanted to make a comment because I see a LOT of posts that invalidate the very real feelings people can have for the OM or OW. Yes, even in cyber relaionships, feelings are often "real." Posts that say "they are in la la land" or "he says he loves her, but he knows nothing about real love." Who does? Love is a poorly understood concept in general, and married people have no patent on it.
I think that in order to win the spouse back and make it LAST, it is VERY important to try to imagine the kind of love that often exists in an affair. Because this type of idealized, passionate, heady, often very emotionally intimate love is a human need for most people, and sorely lacking in a lot of marriages.
"Affair love" or ANY new love for that matter, is high in UNCONDITIONAL POSITIVE REGARD. Not many marriages are "mutual admiration societies," and they should be! They should be more like affairs! It's a beautiful thing! Some marriages were never sufficiently like that even in the beginning, for a multitude of reasons, so it's hard to "get back" to where something never was in the first place...
So when a spouse says "I have more passion/natural chemistry with the OM or OW," that feels painful to the spouse, because they feel there's nothing they can do about that. But really, is that true? I'm not so sure. I think passion is mostly about being overwhelmed with your own good feelings, and that can be a CHOICE in a marriage, to a great extent. And it's CONTAGIOUS. Of course some of that "passionate" affair feeling is fueled by the illicit nature of it, and even that spirit of "illicitness" (naughtiness) is an important human need! It's the cornerstone of "eroticism" and marrieds need to find a way to put naughtiness into the marriage, safely. There are books on how to do that.
H's and W's need to re-enchant themselves with their mates... not carry on about what a jerk the OM or OW is. They are doing something right, if they have your H or W in their arms!
Sure, affair love is not usually as "deep and meaningful" as the more gounded attachment that develops in a long marriage, but just because it may be different than that does not mean it is any less IMPORTANT! And, it probably has just as much potential to be deep and meaningful in time! Some people do leave their mates for the OM or OW and are happy with them in lasting relationships, so it's only the AFFAIR that is "illigitimate" NOT always the feelings! Cheating spouses who want to return home often downplay feelings for the OM or OW but this is often just a way to "re-frame" their feelings in a way that causes less internal conflict for them and their mates.
I think if H's and W's stop "dissing" (disrespecting) the stuff that affairs are made of, and start trying to figure out how to put those critically important things back into the marriage, it would be a more mature way to look at it. Just some food for thought.
After posting my own story, I then read this post. This is exactly what my wife is wanting. She desires someone who is focused only on her. She wants a great romance again.
Being married for so long, I feel in our own situation, love and sex became expected and neither of us worked on it. Now she has someone showing her interest even though I am deeply in love with her yet.
I wish I had viewed this website before it was too late. I yearn to have an affair with my wife but may never get to again.
For anyone still in a working marriage, take these messages to heart and make your marriage a priority. The hurt and work you have to do if you don't is beyond compare.
Annalise, What are you doing to promote the "mutual admiration society" in your own marriage?
Because, from what I read from your other posts, you are admiring the OM and then sitting back and expecting your H to "win you back". (a vague statement if I ever heard one)
Marriages take TWO to break down and TWO to repair. Philosophizing on what it takes to make a great marriage will only get you so far...the rest must be done in conjunction with your H.
Just some thoughts for you.
Btw, I agree with what you are saying--I just think that most people here already are aware of the realities of what you write. AND they are aware that it takes TWO to get in the situation in the first place, which I don't see you writing about as of yet.
I felt the need to respond to this post. I agree that the feelings about OP should not be discounted as fake or unreal. They are real and are usually the result of something missing in the marriage. However when we refer to our spouses being in la la land it is because there is more to a relationship than the initial attraction and feel good emotions that the affair has. In my case, all my H and OW do is go out for dinner, and drinks and fool around. Their relationship does not have to deal with the stress of everyday life such as bills, dealing with kids, the everyday chores at home etc... The new relationship is exciting but it is ALL FUN. If all my H and I did was drink and party we would be the happiest couple in the world. But that is not REAL life. As for the physical part, my H and I have a great sex life and still do. His is more of an emotional affair and we have both identified what was lacking in our R, unfortunately he has turned to someone else to get it. I do not discount his emotional attachment to OW, but I know that it will probably not be as attractive to him once the stress of REAL life enters into it.
I do agree that marriages need to be more like 'affairs' and people tend to become complacent and don't put forth the effort needed to keep each other happy as they were in the beginning.
Your post is very touching. It may not be too late! Why don't you tell your wife you yearn to have an affair with her! I do not know if saying that sentiment right now would be in keeping with or against the DB rules for whatever stage of the process you are curently in, but I think it's an incredible sentiment should be said at some point. Good Luck!
I have read a few of your posts on the boards. So what is missing in your marriage that is making you have an online affair?
Is it communication? Does this person just seem to "understand" you? Would you drop everything you have in your current R just to go and find out if he is "the one?" That would be scary, huh?
If you answered yes to the above, then go and do it and find out what the guy is like in real life. I am not discounting your feelings, I am saying that when you have to deal with this person day to day, he might not be even close to what you think he is.
What is it that made you get married to your husband? Ever think that maybe you two could go to counseling or follow the DB procedures and make your relationship great?
It seems to me that you are on cruise control for a long time. S_ _T or get off the pot. Find out what you are missing one way or the other.
I would be willing to bet that if you left for the other, you would want to come back sometime down the line. Think about it, you have a guy who is patiently waiting for you, but you blame him for enabling you to keep up what you are doing. Take some personal responsiblity here. Maybe YOU are what is really dragging the R down and don't want to face that.
You obviously don't have the life experience to see that people like your H don't come along very often, and are willing to wait for the one they love, no matter how much pain and suffering they are going through. In his way, he IS fighting for you, not enabling you. Think about how you would react if he gave you an ultimatum to quit? Do you really think you would just do that and not have any negative feelings towards him?
I greatly admire your husband. I did the opposite of him, and now I am single. Glad of it, though I didn't know it at the time. Quite the opposite, I was in great pain.
I agree with Sinjin. What would you do Annelise if your H had an affair on you because you seem to be unavailable to him? And fooling around, driving yourself crazy with a fantasy? Have you ever thought about it how much he hurts?
Yes, I am curently "admiring the OM" as you say. That's an understatement. I kind of worship OM. And since this IS a forum for infidelity issues, I assume I'm not alone.
Since you ask, I worked hard for thirteen years to promote "the mutual admiration society" concept in my marriage. It was a concept my husband agreed with in theory, but found difficult in practice, as he tends to be on the critical and analytical side (he's a psychotherapist).
My husband and I have REMAINED BEST FRIENDS even though our marriage is currently in it's first major crisis due to my affair. We are still living together and still enjoy eachother's company and support one another. My affair was precipitated by his cyber activities, and by other marital contentions, and it is something that we see as OUR problem, not just "my bad."
I never keep secrets from my H about anything whatsoever, so I conducted my affair openly, from the get go. Ever since it began one year ago, we have been working on a resolution to the crisis, as a TEAM. As of right now, we are leaning slightly toward reconciliation, which is what brings me here.
My story is a lot longer than this, of course, and you mention that I have not written about it even though I've been here for only less than half a day! I'll post my full story when I'm darn good and ready, thanks, or maybe not at all. Is posting one's whole story before making comments some kind of mandatory rule I don't know about?
No, I am not EXPECTING my H to "win me back"... I just said that manifesting "win back" behaviors would have been more EFFECTIVE with me than simply being patient. I'm entitled to say how I feel anout my own marital situation, I would hope! I was not at all "vague" about what "winning back" meant to me... I was very specific about it (verbalized conviction about the viability of our marriage, for instance).
I agree that marriage takes two to break down and two to repair! Nothing in my posts even remotely suggests otherwise. It is awfully presumptuous of you to imply that I don't realize my own fault in the matter, or that H and I are not already working in "conjunction," when you don't even know me, or him, or anything about my situation.
Trust me, in the midst of this very difficult and gut wrenching crisis, we are working more in "conjunction" than most couples could even begin to imagine on a GOOD day!
I TOTALLY agree with you that philosophizing about what a good marriage is only gets you so far, but THAT IS WHERE I AM AT. I am not yet to the stage of APPLYING my insights to my marriage, as you suggest I should, for the very sensible reason that I am not yet decided to attempt to reconcile! I think it would be kinda nuts to begin that delicate process while I am still in contact with OM, don't you? Unless H and I wanted an open marriage, which we do not.
You need to respect that that not everyone here has reached a firm decision to "work on their marriage."
WOW, you people jump to a lot of conclusions and so far are a very judgemental lot!
For starters, I am not having an "online affair" and don't know where you got that idea. I have met with my OM in person, perhaps eight or nine times... in addition, we have had phone/email contact, and to top it off, he is an old flame of sorts, from 13 years ago. I looked him up (openly, with my husband's knowledge) when I declared an informal marital separation last year.
What was "missing" in my marriage? Uh, I think I'll PASS on spilling my guts to quite that extent, to a stranger who is being semi-hostile, but thanks all the same.
Looks like I hit a NERVE. I'm sorry your wife left. Truly. But is being judgemental toward women you don't even know really helping you out with your resentment about that?
You are somehow implying that I am "scared" to leave my marriage for OM?! Not at ALL. I pleaded with OM to consider leaving his wife!(no kids in either marriage). It was not for lack of guts that I did not "make good" on my feelings for OM, it was for lack of OPPORTUNITY.
Of COURSE I realize that OM would not be a picnic to live with. He is AMAZING, but also has MANY flaws, JUST LIKE HUBBY IS AMAZING, WITH MANY FLAWS! I know that! Do all of you automatically assume that newcomers are DUMB?????
Listen, you obviously have NO IDEA or any REAL interest in why I would have chosen OM over hubby, and I am not in the least inclined to explain it to you. Suffice to say I am 40 years old, this is my second marriage, I have two grown children, and am a professional person who is not at all "immature" or "impulsive."
FYI, my husband is a psychotherapist and I am a psychology student and so I can ASSURE you that we have no aversion to counseling. We have been thru counseling TWICE in our 13 year marriage. YES, I read Michelle's DB book four years ago, and it was helpful, but I can't say I remember much of it now, so I am going to re-read it if I choose to attempt reconciliation. So far I am lot more impressed with MWD's book than I am with her chat forum.
Yes, I am on "cruise control" for a long time. That's the first intelligent thing you've said. Being in limbo does bother me, but so does the idea of forcing some decision that I know I will not really stick to unless my heart is fully IN that decision. My H respects this!... he is glad that I do not wish to come back and try again until I MEAN IT, so that there will be no backsliding into the affair, as there is in so many cases, even though few admit it.
I have been a loyal and extremely devoted wife for 13 years, and this is the only time in 40 years I have been indecisive about ONE SINGLE THING, much less my M. Unfortunately, life and feelings do not not always bend to our will on our preferred time-schedule, and that's how we aquire some soul, whether we want any or not!
Why do you think I "blame" my H for enabling me to keep up what I am doing? No, I was just pointing out that having patience with me has been wonderful, but also tends to support my indecision. For example, if he left, I might miss him and come to my senses quicker, who knows. Or I might be happy as a lark on my own, who knows! But it MIGHT break our stand-off.
JEEZE, I was only saying that patience is maybe not always the clear-cut positive thing to do. And you ASSUME from that, that I am "not taking personal responsibility?" How arrogant!
Rest assured, I know that my M is is gridlock because of MY indecision. I know that! But it takes TWO to tango! In fact, the whole CONCEPT of DB is that spouses can SWAY their wayward ones by doing or not doing certain things, right?...
Well, dude, I am just saying that I personally am not SWAYED or motivated by my H's tactic of patience without fighting. I don't mean fighting for ME...fighting for the M! Yes, I HEAR YOU that I should be fighting for the M too! YES! And I DID, on and off for years, but sometimes one person is not able to fight any longer, for whatever reasons, and the other must pick up the cause!...no, it's not fair, but life's not always fair.
You say my H is fighting "just by being here." Yes, that SHOULD be "good enough" to win me promptly back, I agree! But it's somehow not. GUESS I LOOSE MY BID FOR SAINTHOOD, then! Sorry, my feelings are my feelings.
I LOVE AND APPRECIATE that H is "patiently waiting" and it probably will pay off for us, but I am TELLING YOU that if at ANY time during this year he said "I want this marriage more than anything, Annalise, and I know we can make it work" I would probably not be in such ambivalence.
But even when my affair just started, he had no real conviction about our potential to start anew.
I have confronted him about that, and he says "Oh, it's not that I don't want you or the M back, I do, I'm just fed up with us like you are, and I don't want to "work on" it anymore, and I'm just not the type of guy who has all that much conviction or passion about ANYTHING... it's not just you and the marriage, that's just the way I am."
YES, I DO know that about him! It is ONE of the many maddening issues we have. That is a PERSONALITY issue, it will not change, and I am not absolutely positive that I want to live with that half-heartedness for the rest of my life, not to mention the other marital "issues" that we may or may not be able to resolve.
YES, that IS the man I married, and I knew we had some fundamental differences, but I did not guess they would be seem more distressing in time. Pessismism, for example... at one year it is charming! At five years it is only irksome! But living with pessimism for 13 years becomes more like a MENTAL HEALTH RISK.
My first (and hopefully last) divorce was A GOOD THING even though the marriage was not that bad. My kids and I both THRIVED, we were hardly "devastated" by it. I believe divorce always requires an adjustment period but it's NOT necessarily devasating. Being "devastated" is a CHOICE, like anything else.
I value my marriage greatly, but I do not feel that to "move on" would be a fate worse than death. Nor do I think a marriage is a "failure" just because it does not last forever. I admit I WOULD try with H for a one year period, if not for my feelings for OM, and since I cannot have OM, I should therefore give up OM and try with H. I know that! Even if I end up splitting from H, I know I must give up OM anyway!... since life as a mistress would not be my thing, I'm not that European.
However, knowing something and being able to find the emotional strength to do it are two different things. I love both men, and am IN love with both, but in love with OM *MORE*.
I KNOW that "people like my H don't come along very often" as you say. That is why I have stuck by him for 13 years, through this wonderful AND contentious marriage.
Yes, I agree with what you say! One point: It does seem to "make sense" that feelings for the OP are usually the result of something missing in the marriage, as you say.
However, a lot of good research on infidelity shows that it also happens in the very best of marriages where neither spouse reports any "unmet needs." And don't forget, "cheating" sometimes DOESN'T happen in marriages where their are TONS of unmet needs! So, I think it's safe to say that feelings for the OP are also because the spouse is just drawn to the specific qualities and characteristics of the OP, just as in "legit" R's. And that is how most straying spouses describe it.
I know for myself, that once my H stopped calling my feelings for OM "silly infatuation" and started acknowledging that the feelings might be less superficial than that, that vastly improved communications between me and H.
