Time for a new thread! Lots to catch up on here......
A couple of weeks ago my PMA was WAY low. I was feeling frustrated and discarded. So I made my way to the personals. Found a guy that was interesting and we IM'd for a little bit. We had arranged to meet for drinks the next day. While is was chatting with him, it felt good to have someone interested in me. That quickly faded and all I could think of was XH. I was so not ready and doing that for all the wrong reasons. I cancelled our drink get together.
You will also remember that I have been letting XH come to me, letting him initiate contact. Well he had been calling frequently and paging me. Last Friday night he calls and says that he feels like I have changed over the past few weeks and I am more distant. I explain that I felt like he needed space to work things out and not have any pressure. That if he wanted to talk he would call. I think he really liked that.
On Tues of this week we are talking and he asked me if I have been asked out on a date and I tell him yes. There is a guy that I work with that is also S and moving toward D. I have gotten him on this site and he frequently asks advice. He asked me to go have drinks one night. I think of him as nothing more than friends. XH sees it as someone who is making the move on me. That we are consoling each other. It makes me feel good that this person likes the advice I give and he admits he has made many steps in his own growth because of my encouragement.
At that point I did not tell XH about the personals. I think I told him about the guy at work as it would appear safer. That is not being honest on my part. I have told XH that I am about honesty.
Later that night I call XH back and tell him that because I am wanting to be honest, I need to tell him the rest of the story. I felt like just because he didn't specifically ask "hey have you been to on line personals?" that I needed to tell him. I told him about that. He was appreciative that I told him.
The next morning we talked for about an hour and a half. He says that he gets these "feelings" when something is not right with me. That is why he called to say that he felt like I was changing. Remember that I told him that it was to give him space and work things out. Now he finds out that I am talking R's with a guy at work and was on personals. In his mind I was not giving him space, but rather doing what I really wanted to do. That I lied to him.
He said that he has had these feelings several times throughout our M. Therefore he feels that I have cheated on him. I explained to him that I have never slept with anyone else. This is a real issue for him/us. He feels like it must be resolved. But to resolve it in him mind means me admitting that I did something. I cannot do that. I have even told him that I could not make something up.
He told me that he has the FEELING that we will not make it. I told him that was too bad since the future is a CHOICE, not a feeling. Then I got a little angry and said F*ck his feelings that we had the power to make it anything we wanted. That we just need to pull our head out of our @ss and get it together.
We were both crying and it was quite emotional. XH even said that if we were working with a C that they would say that we made progress.
Then he said, Hey why don't you come up today? We were wanting to spend the weekend together, but our youngest S decided to go up there. S travels a lot and this will be the only time for a while that he could go. So I took Wed, Thur and Fri off and caught a plane to Seattle.
So Wed we hung out at his brand new house while a guy hooked up all the audio visual equipment. As soon as that guy left we promptly broke in the living room!
XH had to work in a town that was about 2 hours away so we drove there and stayed in a hotel. We had a nice dinner on the way. XH was a little distant. More hot sex in the hotel and wonderful sleep all night snuggled close.
The next day he has to work. I am hanging out at the hotel. So I look through his bag and yes, find condoms. In my finest NON DB voice I call and say, well we have been talking a lot about me and what I have been doing when is the last time you've slept with someone else? He obviously is NOT happy, but tells me Feb. with the OW. That after I told him that now that we were D that things changed. I was not going to feel like a one night stand and that if he wanted to be with me then I needed to know that he wasn't doing me one day and someone else the next. NOW he feels like he has been maintaining that, but I haven't even been keeping MY own rule. (personal guy) Everything about this conversation was SO wrong. Wrong time, wrong way, wrong tone. At one point he even said, you call me first thing in the morning, not to tell me you are thinking about last night, or missing me or anything happy, you call me with this $h!t..So readers and lurkers, add this to your DO NOT DO list.
We do not call or anything the rest of the day. He comes home and we go out to dinner. We gave each other a big hug and kiss as soon as we saw each other. No real mention of it at dinner. We talked a little bit about what attracted us to the personal people we choose (OW was from personals).
More AWSOME ML . SO connected.
On our way back to the airport on Fri he took me to the space needle. The day was crystal clear and the view was spectacular. It was a lot of fun. Then he took me to lunch at this place on the water overlooking the yacht club. We talked quite a bit about us. He told me that he feels like there are two sides to me, one that is very conservative and the other that is wild. That I keep the wild side suppressed. Maybe he is afraid that someday that side will just take over and I'll be gone? He said that he felt like he never measured up. That he would not have been my first choice. He also said that he felt like he never measured up in school or sports or his job. I asked if he thought his dad was ever proud of him and he said no. He didn't think his dad ever felt proud of him, even just to be his son, not even for accomplishments. I told him that when he talks about me and gives me his opinion of me that it makes me feel like a bad person. That I am not a good person or worthy. He said that is not how he means it to be. I told him that it was just a feeling that I get. that it was my issue. I was sharing that feeling with him and he understood. Later in the conversation I was telling him how I felt loved by my parents as long as I was doing good. Good in school, lots of friends, good in sports ect. As we were talking I understood why I feel "bad" when he was giving his opinion of me. It ties back to my parents. It really was a great conversation. He said that he really wants to be my knight in shining armor, but always holds back. Part of him wants a solid R, and part of him doesn't. He understands that much of his trust issues come from his actions rather than mine. And that all his life he knows he could do better, and then feels frustrated when he didn't make the team or the R fails. Like he has it in him, just not sure how to get it out and DO IT.
After that we walked on the pier held hands and talked about which boats we liked. There were a bunch of the most beautiful jelly fish floating in the water under the pier. They looked like big yellow flowers.
He dropped me off at the airport and at the curb gave me the BIGGEST kiss and hug. The kind you see in the movies! Way cool.
My flight was delayed by2 hours. He paged me to make sure I got home. Then he called the house, but someone had my cordless phone from my room. Oldest S answered it. H paged me that he didn't think I was home, since I didn't answer.....
I'm sure there are more thoughts I will have on the past week. I am off to the gym.
Hello all~ Just filling in some more details and raising some questions......
At one point during our conversation on Fri, XH said that he always felt like I always thought that the grass was greener on the other side. I asked him if it was and he said NO! Not even close. I told him that I would take his word on it.
During another conversation I was asking him how long it took him to get home from work. He said about 1/2 hour. I said that that was good, allows time to decompress. He said, yeah, but it really doesn't matter because it is just him at home anyway. Then he said, well you never know what will happen in the future. Maybe there will be someone there, someday.
After he picked me up at the airport, I was kissing his neck as we drove, and I could tell he liked it. I pointed to his crotch and asked what that was, in a joking, sexy voice. He said his stupid, brainless wonder. Sounded a little guilty???
He told me many times that I was the most amazingly sexy person.
At one point in a conversation he told me that there were things that he has done that he has not told me, as he knows they would hurt me. He feels like he doesn't want to tell me because its like little kids who trade a hot wheel for a hot wheel. If he tells me, he would be giving a hot wheel but not getting one back.
One night we were driving around looking for a place to eat and we saw a building of a major company that I used to work for. He said hey, you could get a job there!
When we were talking on the phone before I went up there, he said that he wouldn't be on the phone with me if there weren't any feelings for me. That there is something there.
So as I sit here this morning still pondering the events of the last week. I think WHAT THE HE!!.....
Why would he care if I was distant if he didn't care? Why would he care if I started dating if he didn't care? Why would he still find me extremely attractive if he didn't care? Why does this seem so close, yet so far? Why can't he let go of the past? He KNOWS that he hasn't done things well, yet doesn't want to take the steps to change it?
I am so frustrated. DAMN the past. It is ruining the present and future.
Where the heck are we in this process? Is he getting closer? Is the fog starting to clear?
What do you think is going through his mind?
And the big question is what do I do now??? I was in a dark mode and he was coming closer to me. He was calling and paging. But he obviously noticed. Are we moving into a different stage? If I continue to be dark will he think that I am continuing to be on personals? Do I tell him that I have shut down my profile and deleted all info?
Do I begin to reach out to him?
Thank you in advance for any and all comments! This BB is such a lifesaver!
More Journaling~ XH just called. Asked me how my birthday was. (it was yesterday, turned 40) I told him that Sat a GF and I went to get our hair cut. That it looks really cute! then both of us and oldest S and his fiance went out to dinner. The dinner ended up being comped as my GF's BIL works for the company. Since that didn't cost any of us anything, we went to a local bar for a drink. Even the kids said nothing much going on there, so we were home by 11:00p
Yesterday I went to the gym, did laundry then oldest S and fiance took me to dinner.
I asked about his fathers day as our youngest S was visiting him. He was not real talkative, just short one word answers.
I told XH that when I was in the airport in Seattle I bought a book and a book mark that had a picture of Mt. Rainier on it. That when I see it I think of him. He said he didn't know that that was a good thing. I asked why. LONG pause and he said that he didn't think that I thought good thoughts of him. My first reaction and what I said, was I don't think bad thoughts of you. Then I said, ya know, sometimes I do. But I am working to stop that. That I REALLY don't want to let the past dictate the present situation. He made a comment that it is hard to change the way a person is. I said I agree, but it depends on the motivation to do so. Mine is that I want to leave the past there. I really want to start with a clean slate and that means starting with my mind and thoughts. He said hummmmm
I thanked him again for the nice time. He said that he felt like we took steps backward.
He didn't elaborate too much. I told him that for me there were some not so good things. The phone call was just WRONG. But again for me there were some positives. That we had some good conversations and I learned some things.
Not much more.
I just find the comment about us taking steps backward interesting. Doesn't that imply that we were working on moving toward each other? I am really curious as to what he thinks about. He sounded very down.
One other thing I remember from our talk last week was that I told him that I still had pain to get over and that I stil have things about me that I am working on. And that no matter where it goes with us, those two things need to happen. That even with someone else those things would need to happen. I would prefer that they happen with someone that I have known for 30 years and already knows me and can really help me. and that I can do the same for him. He said he had never thought about it that way.
What really changed my situation around was taking all pressure off! And focusing on having fun with my h, being fun to be around. When h brought up things about the r I was vague, not too concerned. I believe the lack of pressure helped my h to really get to the bottom of what he was feeling as far as the r was concerned.
And that is your quandry....your h does not know but you do. You go with what you know, don't pressure him or have long deep discussions about what you think he may be thinking (you lose most guys after the first really deep sentences...they are more bent on action than discussion). Why not try more action oriented discussions? Like to get the 2 of you moving forward together what kinds of things would you like xh to do? Get him to focus on actions like that instead of discussion...seems too much thinking is getting him down. Have him do the FUN things your NEW r is all about...see if you can get him to focus on building a fun new r.
Your xh is sad cause he wants to be with you but is really scared to go down that road again. He doesn't want to hurt all over again. Though you maintain it won't happen again he doesn't believe you. Show him by your actions that you have changed.
Maybe he had the condoms cause he did believe you were with someone else and was pleasantly surprised when you didn't ask to use them with him??? In other words, he didn't have them to use with another girl, was only thinking of safe sex with you.
I had the same thing happen to me when I first moved in with my h last weekend...found condoms in his sock drawer! I understand your hurt.
Maybe the sexual rules should change now that you are d. No sex until marriage? Just a thought....
Hi All~ Thanks for the reply Cindy! So good to hear from you and you sound wonderful. Keep us updated!
Just pondering some things today.....
Previously I had been dark and XH noticed. However, now I feel that because of the recent turn of events...(Internet personals, guy at work) that may not be a good thing?
Maybe it is just me STILL wanting to control the situation and reach out to him?
COULD he be feeling like he wants to hear from me once in a while?
Do I tell him that I have shut down ALL internet profiles and blocked everything and am keeping the guy I work with on a work related only conversation? (which I have done) Actions speak louder than words, but that is not really an action he can experience, so is it appropriate to tell him?
I know if it was ME I would want to know that those things were broken off. Seaking of which....when do I get to know that things with OW have been broken off?
Spoke with XH on the phone on Monday, He felt like we had taken a huge step backwards after finding out about the Internet Personals and the guy at work who was having R troubles and I gave advice to.
Thurs night/Friday morning the following pager messages to each other.... W:Hope your week is going well and you made it safe to Oregon. Have a good meeting with you boss. XH: All is well. Thanks for picking up my parts. W: I didnt pick them up, just arranged to have them shipped XH: You still made it happen. Whats new with you? W: Making changes to supervisors at work, so everything is sirred up, 10 reviews to write and budget to work on. I shut down the internet profile and no more advice from me to coworker XH: what is internet profile W: Internet personals dating account XH: OH I think u should try it out. I'm deeply hurt that you make this agreement then scam me. I'm not feeling the game or miscommunication at all. W:I understand how you feel. Yes, I made a mistake. I reacted based on past hurt instead of current thoughts. I am sorry for that.
Then XH calls me at 1:00am this morning. He says he has just left a bunch of his coworkers at the bar. He can't stand to be there and that environment just makes him sick. (must not have been that bad if he went in the first place and then stayed till 1:00am)
He then went into this just rant. I can't even remember the specifics. But here are some highlight snipets: * That I make this agreement that if we are going to be together that it just needs to be me and now I broke that. (with the internet guy) * That I should hook up with T (name of internet guy) * That even though he has done things wrong, my intent was to F the internet guy and the guy at work. * That I should be treated for bipolar disorder * That I have done more to destroy our family/kids than anything * That when S asked his dad about cheating, XH could have told him all kinds of TRUTHS about me, but he didn't cause he is not like me to be sharing that type of information. * That its all his fault that he doesn't create the environment that we can communicate in. (said in a very sarcastic voice) * That he is done with this since I can't keep my commitments. (and he must be the expert on that subject; sorry that was a vent on my part) * That we make beautiful music together, but I am not able to uphold a committment. * That I should go be with T the track star. (this was information I shared with XH about the internet guy I chatted with.) * That if youngest S didn't have a girlfriend, S would come live with him. * That XH had to pay for S to come visit * That oldest S didn't call until 8:00pm to wish him happy fathers day. (even though S knew XH was playing Paintball and wouldn't have been able to to talk to him all day anyway) * That he should go to church on Sunday to ask for forgiveness because he won't get it any where else.
I am less upset about the conversation as I am with myself. I really don't handle these types of conversations well. I allow myself to get sucked in by the attacks. I really need to spend some time reflecting on this conversation. Where are the buttons that make me put up that defensive shield. I was like Xeana, I had my shield and sword. And I started swinging. At one point said F*ck you, you Sonofab!tch. Not my best DB skill.
I felt so discarded once again. XH is done??? WTF. Oh, you are now suddenly the model committment maker? I am to ASSume that because we are together that you are agreeing to my request of being the only one? Did I miss the conversation where you said that you feel the same way and am glad that I have brought this up? Did I miss where you have told me about your break up and feelings about OW? YOUR DONE???
He told me to go and F*ck who ever I wanted, and rattled off a list of people he thought were potential candidates. And that once I have experienced that and can tell if it is them or him that I want to give him a call and hung up.
I didn't cry or get upset after he called. I just put my hands together and prayed for him.
In catching up here, I get the sense that H is just overwhelmed with guilt and he can't face it. He's giving it his best effort to project his guilt onto everyone else and especially you to try to ease his burden. He doesn't believe he is worthy enough to be with you. He's trying to relieve his guilt by trying to make you as guilty in his mind as he thinks he is. Its not going to work, but it seems he is determined to try.
I don't know what to recommend other than try to regroup and standing firm in expressing having no true interest in an R with any other man ... which is hard to do but keep at it and I know at the same time we do get lonely for companionship at times when we need it.
Water, You posted an excellent post to Cathy. I, too, have gone dark... I no longer want to appear that I condone what H is doing, nor do I feel it is my job to facilitate his R with the kids.
How are you doing?
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Hi Water, How are you doing? Happy Belated Birthday.
This post is a heart-wrenching. Is there a way that you can kindly say when he is ranting like this that you are not willing to partake in a convo. of that nature/or while he is upset/or when he has this tone/etc. and to tell him to call you when he can speak rationally? Obviously, going down all these roads is only going to create negative consequences.
I don't know what he has conjured up about you or why. It sounds like he has been trying to set you up for failure. But, I know, that us giving you our opinion on him doesn't do much for YOU. I'm just concerned about you listening to stuff like that which is abusive and meant to hurt. You don't need to take it, gf.
You know you are a lovely, honest, committed person. If he can't see that right now, it's not really your prob. anymore. I don't know how you can help him-other than what you do-be there for him and validate his feelings. Did he ever get on med's? Please take care of yourself and don't let yourself get sucked in. I know it is easier said than done, but do it for you.
Hi Everyone~ Thanks for stopping by! I have been keeping up with your sit, although not posting much these days.
After last Friday's middle of the night phone call, he called me during the day on Sunday. He asked if he had called me Friday night. I guess it was a little foggy for him. He did remember some of the conversation, and the part of me calling him names. It wasn't a bad conversation and I think he understood some of my frustration.
He seems to be back into the "I've made such a mess of my life" mode. He is NOT a happy camper.
On Monday he called me to say that several upper management people were let go from his company, including his boss. The next day he was offered either a lesser position or a severance package. He called me to talk about it. It was really less about the immediate decision, but his life in general. He said that he is not really happy with what he is doing, but doesn't have the courage to change it. That he is a weak person. That he has created the situatiion that his life is in. He said that he is afraid and a coward. That he is looking for something that he will never find. We talked about how all the answers to his questions and feelings are inside of him. He doesn't know if he is strong enough to figure it out and that I deserve better. He said that whenever the chips are down, I'm the one he turns to. Hummmmm
He is really hurting and for the first time I didn't rush to try to fix it or make him feel better. I let him know that I am here if he needs anything, but left it at that. I didn't try to own the resposibility for him feeling bad.
Is that me dropping the rope???
He did text page me the next day to say thanks for all the support. We paged several times and he thanked me like three times.
Thursday I sent him a page saying I was sending him a smile and he smiled back. Other than that no contact.
Well that is really all there is to update. Thank you to all of you who check up on me! I keep everyone here in my prayers.
