I'm 24 and will have been married for 8 months on Friday. My h and I have been together for 9 years. About two years ago I found out he had been looking at porn on the internet, which to me is infidelity. It came out in our discussions that he felt like he had missed out on a big part of life by not having sex with lots of grls when he was younger (although he did have a "relationship" with another girl during a brief breakup). He said he loved me and wanted to marry me, but wished that we had met each other later in life. He said he would never acually cheat on me, but that he was really interested in having sex with other women, that he always would be, and that I would never find a man who wasn't. We reconciled, he promised he was done with the porn, but refused to budge on (to me, at least) this larger issue of wanting to sow oats. So we got married. This morning I was doing a virus scan on the computer, and noticed as it was flipping through the files that there were cookies for all these websites in a folder: asianmatchmaker.com, penthouse, etc. There was a huge range of dates, so he has obviously never stopped looking, and has been lying to me for years. So I confronted him about it, and he says it's a compulsion, he can't help it, he wants to stay married, so on. But he still feels the same way about other women and regrets not getting more action. I peronally am not interested in being married to someone who says he will always want to be with other people. How do you guys see this? Am I a prude? Is his "philosophical infidelity" something I should be concerned about? Personally, I feel like this prolonged dishonesty is reason enough not to want to be married anymore. I can't see how I will ever be able to trust him again. What do you think?
It isn't something I really like to know that ex-b looks at, but honestly...most guys I know look at porn on the internet. That doesn't make it necessarily right - but it is very normal. I don't consider it infidelity (now if he was trying to hook up with someone, that is totally different).
I'm 24 and will have been married for 8 months on Friday. My h and I have been together for 9 years. About two years ago I found out he had been looking at porn on the internet, which to me is infidelity.
Hi rache,
I'm sorry for the pain and confusion you are going through. I think I understand a great deal of what you feel, having gone through similar things myself. This post may seem a bit abrupt, maybe even insensivite, but I'm past sugarcoating these days. Please take anything that helps from it and disregard the rest. I am just going to write what I think. I am not going to go back and revise to make it more tentative, or more about me so I don't sound like a know it all, or more sensitive, or whatever. So, please just remember I am not judging you. The words below are my advice coming from my position, my advice may or may not be good advice for you. Of that, I am in no position to tell.
A bit of background, I'm getting divorced after a 16 year marriage. I got married at 24. Early on, I discovered H had made a phone sex call. He dismissed it as experimenting, I did too. Many years later, I discovered a long standing phone sex/internet porn addiction. He swore off it, it came back, I could never get past it or forgive him.
Men looking at porn is not infidelity. Men are visual creatures. Do you enjoy torrid romances or erotic stories? Women are more aural creatures. Men looking at pornography do not emotionally invest in the women. If it makes you feel insecure, that is something within YOU. He is not doing anything to YOU by looking at porn. If you keep yourself in the place of the victim, your marriage has little chance of surviving.
It came out in our discussions that he felt like he had missed out on a big part of life by not having sex with lots of grls when he was younger (although he did have a "relationship" with another girl during a brief breakup). He said he loved me and wanted to marry me, but wished that we had met each other later in life. He said he would never acually cheat on me, but that he was really interested in having sex with other women, that he always would be, and that I would never find a man who wasn't.
All men fantasize about having sex with other women. All women probably fantasize about having sex with other men. The great thing is that he can be direct and communicate this to you. He has shared a regret, but does not say that he would change things. YOU are worth it to him. That is a wonderful thing. Rather than be hurt by this, you might try to view it as an opportunity to discuss how to avoid infidelity, how to be sure you meet each others needs and communicate when urges arise to keep your marriage strong. Your husband took a big emotional risk by telling you this stuff. He is invested in your relationship. Value that.
We reconciled, he promised he was done with the porn, but refused to budge on (to me, at least) this larger issue of wanting to sow oats. So we got married. This morning I was doing a virus scan on the computer, and noticed as it was flipping through the files that there were cookies for all these websites in a folder: asianmatchmaker.com, penthouse, etc. There was a huge range of dates, so he has obviously never stopped looking, and has been lying to me for years. So I confronted him about it, and he says it's a compulsion, he can't help it, he wants to stay married, so on. But he still feels the same way about other women and regrets not getting more action.
Repeat comment above. Quit feeling hurt. Appreciate his honesty. Figure out a solution. And quit worrying about the porn, watch it with him even. Give him permission to enjoy it.... If it is an addiction for him, that is his problem which you can't fix. You can only either accept it or not. But, don't hold it over his head. Stay or go.
I peronally am not interested in being married to someone who says he will always want to be with other people. How do you guys see this? Am I a prude? Is his "philosophical infidelity" something I should be concerned about? Personally, I feel like this prolonged dishonesty is reason enough not to want to be married anymore. I can't see how I will ever be able to trust him again. What do you think?
Your standards are your standards. You have every reason to demand a partner who you trust and respect. If you are unwilling to try to trust and respect your husband, then leave. If you are willing to try, then look for solutions. Do something now, whatever you do. The seeds of resentment and distrust will only grow overtime and undermine every part of your marriage if you do not.
In the meantime, I'd suggest you seriously ask yourself why his viewing porn is a problem for YOU. How much is it about how you think you are SUPPOSED to react? How much is it about what you think he'll think about you if you don't have a problem with it? How much is it your own insecurity? How much is it about your own unhappiness with your partner and you looking for something to blame it on?
There is so much behind what I have said, and I don't have the time or energy to post it. I very very rarely post anymore. I know you hurt, I know you feel your world spinning away. Now is a real opportunity to get your own world under your own feet and see where the marriage falls. I wish you the best.
Just one other note - if you go by the Biblical verses about lust in the heart, etc. being infidelity (I don't have the verses in front of me), then yeah - maybe it is. However, so is just looking at another woman. And all men do that.
It bothers me more when someone hides what they are doing. I'd rather that stuff be shared with me. Not that I'd sit and look at it much, but sometimes a video or whatever can put a little spice in your sex life.
If you are looking for a guy who doesn't look at porn, you will be hard pressed to find one. I am sure there are a handful who don't, but even those guys I know who don't believe in looking...well, they look too. Or have. They are ashamed about it, but that doesn't mean they don't surf to some of those sites - porn is so available now. Heck, I've been curious.
So don't be so hard on him. If he's seeking another woman, that is a major problem. If he's just looking - I'd not say it is.
I am in complete agreement with Acorn. In my Opinion, and in my eyes, it is no way infidelity.. and for some people on here i'm sure they are wishing that the SO or H or W even were only looking at porn online... I would read through some of the stories.. and then grab your H and be thankful that you have him.. You are probably not going to be able to see it this way... I have an online addiction.. and i often actually talk to men, and recently started talking to a man who i would consider that i had an emotional affair with... this has hurt my H... my point is if you dont like porn, then dont look at it... but that is one of those things that men do... woman too for that matter... Hugs to you, and good luck.. but most of the time if a man says he doesnt like porn.... he's lying...
I'm going to present a slightly different view. Everyone so far has given you good advice. Men are visually oriented, however, acceptance is a key.
I was married to someone who very likely became a sex addict. Has been involved with an internet porn queen (literally calls herself a paypal whore), produces porn, and they're relationship is far from healthy. They cheat on each other, set up threesomes and swaps for each other... not really a great relationship. She kicks him out, he bounces around, he finds someone to "care" for him for a bit, she gets needy and calls, he's back there. Strange. I got roped into a few of their cycles. Philosophically, I have no reason to be against porn... free speech, first amendment, and believe in "community standards". However, behaviors can become addictive--"compulsive." It can be an escape or a fantasy. Gambling can be addictive.
Why do you feel he lied? Sure, we all fantasize. Women have beefcake calendars. Lying can be a form of self-protection when we feel intimidated.
He is fearing something. Might be the loss of "opportunity" with other women or may be the weight of a commitment to a marraige.
What you wish to accept is up to you. However, your H is right in one area: you won't find anyone who won't at least fantasize about other women unless they have no sex drive. Acting that out is another problem. Physical attraction is a component that brings us together. But there is more to it afterwards that keeps us together.
Trust is a very personal matter. Trust can be built here by remaining open and receptive to what he is saying. How are other areas of your R? Do you feel able to openly communicate about this issue, if in fact he may be lying out of fear?
On a side note, when I began to notice a real slide in our sex life is about the time I began to discover my ex's problems... depression, involvement in porn, psycho OW (really!). If it's just he's enjoying porn now, without any other problems... depression, inability to communicate, arguments... I don't see any "infidelity."
Too... take a look at the nature of the porn he's looking at. Playboy--tame, almost nothing. But if it's becoming increasingly more risque over time or he becomes more obsessed with it, there is a serious issue. I'm not really a big porn fan. More interested in the real thing if it comes to visual stimuli. But, take another look before you believe you are unable to trust him or that a philosophical infidelity is reason to not be married. Keep posting, let us know what happens.
I'm not an expert in this area, but thought I would add a thought or two.
- I agree that your husband's problem is not on the same scale as actual infidelity with another person. Trust me, I am the victim of my WAW's infidelity (she is divorcing me to live with her affair boy) and it's like comparing a bullet to a atomic bomb in my mind.
- However, with that said, I think it's still something to address. The reason I say this is reading I have done and posts I have seen -- that when a spouse uses another source (books, magazines, web sites, videos, etc) without the other spouse, I can see how some damage is done. It may be subtle or not even recognized but I can now see how it could be done.
- For example, if your husband is using other sources to deal with his sex drive, the use of these will actually somewhat reduce his sex drive for you. The Marriage Builders web site talks about this. For example, think of sex drive as steam pressure that builds up. If he's "releasing steam" without you, there's some less pressure for him to have sex with you. This can be bad, if he leaves you wanting more, and he's expending this "extra" drive on something else. If he's using up his sex "pressure" without you, and you want more, engage him to have sex with you more often.
- Note I do not consider it acceptable in ANY way for the spouse to expend this drive with ANY other person, whether remote (via a camera), chat, email, etc. However, if he's expending this sex drive with no other person involved it might be more of a gray area.
- Oddly, there is a case I've heard of where expending a spouse's extra drive or pressure in this way might be helpful. If you were an army wife, and your husband was away for months at a time, and the only way you could deal with your sex drive was through one of these other non-person methods, it might be a way to productively "let off steam" since your husband was away for so long.
- However, these methods can also be dangerous if they lead to the spouse getting involved in more and more extreme desires. Sex drive is a dangerous thing and tough to keep balanced. You might want to see a good professional's advice on this subject (Divorce Busting or Marriage Builders).
Just some thoughts. My world view has been shattered by my wife (who I trusted 100%) -- her affair & associated divorce really having me reassess all of my beliefs. It's a personal 9-11 that has me rethinking a lot in its wake...
It gives me a whole new understanding of the old school days concept of "man's inhumanity to man". I've been told an affair to a close relationship is the worst thing that can happen to a person inside, outside of wartime, and I can believe it. I've been through some amazingly dangerous but heroic situations in life, and nothing compares to the damage and suffering I feel now.
So, yes do learn more about how your husband's habits should be handled -- but do so with patience, knowledge and guidance. Best wishes.
I've had a glimpse into the very dark underbelly of what this situation can do and how it can hurt. I honestly feel as if my ex has no emotional capability beyond connecting with someone on a very superficial level because of this. Hence, from some things I've seen over time, I do believe he may be using drugs to avoid the pain even further.
That said, Rache... we in this society often take a very Puritan-like attitude towards sex and nudity and then we do a double-take through avenues like MTV and HBO. We're very much polarized on these issues, and if your H was raised in a strict household, there could be guilt issues stemming from looking at porn too. I'm not sure what the "right" attitude to take is re porn. It did play a role in the destruction of my M, but I do think it was merely a symptom of another problem... the need for an escape or a fantasy during a midlife crisis.
Your H is connecting with you by being honest about the situation. Yes, we can become addicted to this stuff and this stuff can be very harmful. However, it's all in the attitude we take in how it affects our lives. SOS makes a good point in that it is expending his energy away from you.
Is there a way you can make him feel more comfortable and open up about this issue? His feeling bad about not having had more women while in his youth is bs... he's talking lust, you're talking love. Need to combine a little bit more of those two to make a good R really work well.
Only you know what's best for you in your own heart. But realize too that if you really want your M to work out, there seems to be a lot of opportunity!! My heart goes out to you... I have a daughter your age
I totally agree with Acorn's wise advice. Do try to get over it. I know it's hard. It took me awhile to get over it too. MEN AND WOMEN ARE DIFFERENT. My H likes porn, and it was an issue in our marriage. Then when I took up with OM and found out he loved porn, of course it was all of a sudden something I wanted to keep an open mind about and understand and accept, since OM can do no wrong. Crazy... and it just goes to show... your attitude about porn can change if you are motivated! Let all your good feelings toward H motivate you.
You are wise to be concerned about the dishonesty, however! Discuss with your H that honesty is required even when you are not making it easy for him to be honest. Discuss that it is required even when he is ashamed or fears making you angry, and that "not telling" you something he knows you would want to know, is the same as lying. Hold hands, look him in the eyes, and gain a renewed committment to full honesty. This is important to all M's but especially to yours, because you have a randy H on your hands. That's not bad!! I bet he's fun, c'mon admit it.
I highly recommend watching porn with your H, and try to enjoy it and really share his enthusiasm for it. You will LEARN about your H's sexuality this way, and that's critical, if you want him to remain monogamous. If you make him keep porn "to himself" so as not to offend you, you will be forfeiting the opportunity for maximal sexual intimacy, and that's not good. I am not at all concerned that he looks at porn, but I am concerned that it is something you don't feel inclined to SHARE sometimes.
Don't worry about H saying he will always want to be with other people. Most men feel that way, if they are honest. It is how they are set up, biologically. It has nothing to do with love. The important thing is, does he feel he can REMAIN monogamous? If yes, get off his back, already. Really, if you want him to be honest with you, try not to give him a hard time when he IS honest. If he worries that he will NOT be able to remain monogamous, don't flip out, just head to a marriage counselor, that is not an impossible problem to address.
Ask H if he is just LOOKING at porn, or is he having phone sex or cyber sex. I feel strongly that talking and interacting with live people is different than looking at pictures and videos. If you feel the same way, then you will want to clarify these boundaries with H. Don't assume he "knows" how you feel. Good Luck.
Lots of good points in the preceding posts, and minimally the point made by Annalise is something you should clarify
Quote: Ask H if he is just LOOKING at porn, or is he having phone sex or cyber sex. I feel strongly that talking and interacting with live people is different than looking at pictures and videos
Of course if you don't feel that looking is "less" than other interactions, then that's not going to reassure you.
As a male I can tell you that I look at porn, but would never think of cheating on my wife (I've even turned down, well ignored actually, a couple of unsolicted propositions in the 20+ years we've been married, but I digress). It's likely that your husband feels the same....and yes, my wife feels very much like you, but those are my and her issues, not yours.
One thing that might help, both with your concerns and his need for porn is to pick up a copy of "Passionate Marriage" by David Schnarch. If you and your husband can connect on all the various levels outlined in the book' "Eyes-Open Orgasm", "F###ing, Doing and Being Done", etc, then I can't imagine that he would seriously consider anything other than looking, and he might stop looking. I know I'd be estatic is my wife and I could connect as descibed in the book. More important you'll likely not be as concerned if he does continue to look.
