Hello everyone - I had to create a new login name because I forgot my old one. Oh well. Anyway, I am very familiar with DB, and have (I think) successfully applied it to my marriage, but I'm having problems with my emotions, and that is where I need help.
My sitch: H and I have been married 24 years, 3 kids. H was always the giver - he is an introverted guy, and never liked being around a lot of people. This caused problems for me, as I'm an extrovert, so I started creating a life with my friends - this wasn't a problem to H, but being treated like a doormat was. After 18 years, he dropped the bomb and said he didn't love me anymore, couldn't handle being controlled and neglected. This was devastating to me, because I love this kind, decent man so much, and I really had to do a self-evaluation of why I treated him the way I did. Basically, over the last 5 years, we have been holding the marriage together by a thread - culminating in him moving out last November for 4 months. There has been no one else.
During the period he was moved out, he was a changed man - he was here all the time, became much more loving and more enjoyable to be around. We really began to heal. Although he didn't tell me he loved me, I was beginning to feel it and heal from the juge rejection that I had felt before.
In March, he moved back home. I was so scared everything would fall to pieces again. And over the last 2 months I have had a very difficult time, because I seem to get it into my head that we should be spending every moment together "healing", and I find myself incredibly oversensitive to everything he does and says. It's very hard on him - I have told him how sensitive I am, and hes understanding of that. He has told me he wants to be here and make the marriage work, which is what I want to hear, but I can't seem to stop my emotions from working overtime, questioning every little thing he does and says.
We had a talk last night after another of my emotional breakdowns - and he reassured me that he does want to be home. These emotional breakdowns on my part are very wearing on him, yet I can't seem to stop them! There are also 2 other issues which contribute to my insecurities about him wanting the marriage - his sex drive has dropped - we used to have sex about twice a week, not it's once a week. I get so uptight about this, but he says it's just because he's getting older (he's 45), and his job is so stressful (which it is), but I take it personally. I wish I didn't, but I need some support in this - what to do? I don't want to push him into having sex more often, because I feel that's not fair to him. The other issue is when this all started 5 years ago, we started sleeping in different rooms. We still are, because we now find it incredibly difficult after 5 years to sleep together (due to snoring and noisy moving about on both our parts). For some reason I think this is a really bad thing - that couples should sleep together - he feels it doesn't mean anything - we can still have a loving relationship and get a good night's sleep. Please comment.
The final issue is that I feel he should be suggesting things for him and I to do alone, so we can have quality time together to get closer. He says that he's never been that way, and that we do spend time together (which is true - I guess I'm trying to make it more romantic or something).
I guess the bottom line is I keep thinking he "should" be acting a certain way, otherwise the marriage won't survive, and when those "shoulds" don't happen, I get terribly scared, which feeds into my alread reduced self-confidence. How do I just enjoy the fact that we are back together, that he does want the marriage, without having so many expectations?
Sorry for the long post! And thank you in advance.
It's just wonderful that you and your H are recovering a loving R. You both seem to have a willing attitude and the desire to please each other. Way to go!
I have also recovered a loving R with my H -- though we are still separated. We're healing our rift -- long story, lots to forgive (porn, o-chick, drain-the-savings).
That is just so you know "I been there" and really do relate to having EMOTIONAL BREAKDOWNS.
I had them all over the place.
Now that we're talking again, my H revealed that he left home cuz he couldn't take constant upset. I never gave him any recovery time between bouts.
So my DB-ing has involved learning to check my sour or sad feelings at the door. Don't spill on him.
Or to at least reduce the frequency and intensity of the bouts. Give him some breathing room.
Be softer, kinder, easier-going. Trust that he wants you to feel good. Show him you can.
This works like magic for me.
Get over it as best and fast as U can. Use whatever helps ya, honey.
Some bibliotherapy I use: DB, DR Mars/Venus Five Love Languages "Feeling Good" by Dr. David Burns
Snodderly has a thread with more recommendations.
After crying and letting it all hang out, look into his eyes and say you love him cuz ... of his wiry eyebrows (or something). Thank him for holding on.
U betcha he'll be grateful and relieved.
It sounds like your H cares very much. Maybe U aren't getting the EXACT words you'd like to hear. But listen and watch for other actions -- isn't he trying to tell you IN HIS WAY what he feels?
Tips I need to remember, too:
Let em have their POV (though U think it's wrong or odd) Deep breath and duct tape (when U want to scold) Don't hasten to conclusion (maybe he's planning your surprise party, maybe he's givin U what he'd wanna have) Benefit of the doubt (apply this to sep beds issue, maybe it's not an issue after all?) Cheerlead a lot (That's what YOU'D want, right?) Lighten up on him especially when he screws up. He's likely to be quietly grateful and relieved.
One more thing: lingerie.
Doll up and appeal to his masculine virility. Lipstick, lace & heels.
Bridgette - thank you for your response to my post. I'm going to print the post out and re-read it every day - you've given me some great advice. Some of it I know already, but just can't seem to do, and some is making me think harder.
I'm wondering if my expectations are too high. I seem to keep going around and around the same thing - is it me or is it him? Should he do this because we're married, should I not expect this because we're married? Do you understand what I mean? For instance, H loves bike riding - he loves to go solo. I like bike riding too - and would occassionaly like to go with him. When I ask him, he usually groans, but will then relent. This upsets me greatly, because I am so sensitive to rejection - I take it so personally, and it usually ends up on a bad note. Obviously he doesn't want to go with me. I guess I'm asking should I just accept this as part of my H's personality - or should I expect that he should want to be with me? I obviously tend to think about things like this too much. Any thoughts? Advice? I find I constantly go back and forth over things, wondering if his actions secretly mean he's thinking of leaving again, or is discontent. Discussing these things with H is painful, mostly for him.
Hi Maggie, I break into emotional outbursts on a regular basis too.
What are yours about? What are you saying to him? What are you saying to yourself that is causing you to get upset? How does he handle it? What does he tell you will help him feel more lovingly toward you?
I wonder the same things about my expectations-are they too high? Do I deserve this? Why isn't he doing XYZ? The truth of the matter is that the less expectations you have, the more relaxed h will feel around you and prob. do the things that you want him to do.
And, being demanding or disappointed about what he does or doesn't do will cause him to feel like you don't accept him for who he is and that is a biggie for men. And, they don't want to be controlled. OK, I DO know some men that don't mind being controlled...Do you wish you had one of them? NO! Then you would have no respect for him.
Has he told you what might help him to feel more amorous? My h has told me time and again that the crying turns him off. My C said that everytime I cry, it's like pouring water on the logs in a fire, dampening it. Gotta let the logs dry out.
I think about this stuff too much too. What can you do for you? Do you have a girlfriend you can bike ride with? You must remove the victim-if he doesn't want to go with you, you go anyway!
Also, I think it would help if you quit bringing up your insecurities with him. As you said, this will tire him. I know b/c I am there. H has become so drained that he really doesn't have much left to give. Now I have to live w/o anything (WOA, ILY's, etc.) b/c he doesn't feel ready to open up again. Please try to avoid this, b/c it is painful and then you REALLY do have something to worry about.
Do you think your thoughts are irrational? I'd like to talk to you more. I'm in Piecing-Seeking the Truth
Quote: We still are, because we now find it incredibly difficult after 5 years to sleep together (due to snoring and noisy moving about on both our parts). For some reason I think this is a really bad thing - that couples should sleep together - he feels it doesn't mean anything - we can still have a loving relationship and get a good night's sleep. Please comment.
This caught my attention as a now retired co-worker of mine and her H slept in separate beds. He really had a problem with it at first, but eventually it worked really well and they do and always have gotten along wonderfully. They had their intimate time after work rather before they went to sleep. He snored big time and she wanted to sleep. I also think this is more common than we hear or like to think.
The bike riding issue. I'm a walker and like to walk alone as it's my time to think and reflect on things. And I really need this time to myself so if anyone wanted to walk with me more than a few times or make it their excercise time, I'd be groaning too. So maybe don't think it personally, it might be when your H does his thinking.
Quote: so I started creating a life with my friends - this wasn't a problem to H
and then you say
Quote: couldn't handle being controlled and neglected
So if he didn't mind you having a live with your friends, why do you think he felt neglected? What do you think him made him feel controlled?
Maybe you should really think about your "shoulds" and your "expectations" as they don't sound like they are you H's "shoulds" and "expectations"
I used to be the queen of emotional breakdowns or going "physco" as my H called it, but I've pretty much tamed those and I feel so much better. It took so much of my energy and usually the thing I was freak'n out about worked itself out in the end. So it ended up being a waste of time. I think it was more me trying to control my H and getting very frustrated when he wouldn't do what I wanted him to do or be how I wanted him to be. The key was accepting my H exactly as he was and dropping the expectations.
Hang in there. That your H came back is wonderful!
I promised myself that I would be completely honest with myself and others about my thoughts and feelings on this forum, so here is what is going on in my head! I sometimes find when I write things down that I read them and then go "I sound so immature, or selfish" so here goes - this is how I feel:
To answer your questions - my emotional outbursts usually have to do with how I feel H should act towards me, if he indeed does want our marriage healed and reconcilation. Sex is a big issue - ironically, he was always the chaser, and I the avoides in the first years. When things started to go south between us, I began to pursue him, and our sex life was great. It was the only good emotional involvement we had for a while - what I don't understand is now that things are better for us otherwise, H's sex drive seems to have dropped. I get really hurt by this, and that hurt will swirl around in my head and I'll start to imagine other hurts until I'm in such a state that I can't see us being married to each other.
I do recognize that I am very insecure because of his rejection and moving out, and it's done a huge number on my self-esteem. I'm having difficulty rebuilding my self-esteem with this perceived sexual rejection. Intellectually I understand the best thing to do is to just leave him alone, accept what I have, and things will most likely improve, but in reality this is very hard and I guess I'm asking for help in this.
I've also found I've turned into the green-eyed monster with him - although there is no one else, I am jealous of any other women he talks to or mentions about work. I hate this about myself!! He has given me no reason to not trust him, but I seem to have convinced myself he would love to be with someone else. This also comes from insecurities I feel when we first saw a counselor, who asked him what he wanted from our marriage - he said "to be able to love someone", and at that time, he didn't mean me. I guess I hold on to things he has said, and don't or won't believe things have changed. Last fall when he came to me and said he wanted to separate for a time was so devastating, even though I know believe it did a lot of good for both of us. I'm just so scared he'll do it again!
H does not handle my outbursts well. He feels controlled, frustrated and demeaned. My outbursts are not short - I tend to go into a rant, that goes round and round about my feelings, how hurt I am, how his actions or inactions have hurt me. H is a typical man in many ways - avoid conflict at all costs - so it is difficult to have a conversation with him about our R, especially because I am not very reasonable.
H has told me what helps him - and that is acceptance of who he is - no demands, no controlling. He is not the type of person who will take advantage of me - but a very kind and decent man. This is why I have stayed and persevered. He says that when he comes back from his solo bike trips, he feels very loving to me and good about us. So you ask why the heck do I try and disrupt that???? I don't know - some kind of insanity I guess.
H doesn't seem to WANT to be more amorous, so no, he hasn't told me what will help. He has said he will try and initiate more often, but really doesn't. Karen, I'm sure my H is like yours - crying and outbursts dump cold water all over them. But as I said before - when my mind starts down that road, I can't seem to stop it.
Your comment about stopping bringing up my insecurities is right on the button - I'm sure this drives him nuts, and is a strong bear repellent .
Hi Cathy
I do think I am making much more out of the sleeping apart thing then I should. The latest upset I had over this was caused by something I read in a book - in the book, there was a couple who were married 20 years and slept together "naked and like spoons" every night - how real is that??? I know this, but seem to be affected by things I see on tv, or hear my co-workers say at work - someone says "Oh, Tim had to get up in the night to let the puppy out", this kind of thing upsets me because I wouldn't even know my H is up because he's in a different room! I know this sounds very immature, but as I said, I'm being honest. I seem to get a standard of how something should be, and get upset if my life doesn't follow it.
Something else I've noticed about myself - for years everyone said I had the best husband, the best marriage - and it bugs me that I don't have that anymore (or perceive I have it). I don't like others having something better then me (again, I'm being honest). Yikes, I'm scaring myself with the thoughts that are coming out.
I had to really think about your comment regarding my H not minding me having my own life - H did mind me having a lot of outside activities and friends - but it was because he felt he then couldn't, because someone needed to be there for the kids. We have discussed this, and it still confuses me (right now, I had to squash the urge to go running to H and discuss this with him - now you see why I have a problem - he just now returned from an all day bike ride and is in a great and loving mood - and I want to discuss our R with him!! The poor guy. Fortunately, I stopped myself I think H felt he was left at home all the time, plus I was not into sex very much, so I think that's where the neglect came in. He felt controlled because he felt he didn't have a choice in either being able to do what he wanted, or in being able to have sex. BUT, he didn't voice this to me, that is why I felt this wasn't a problem, although now I see it definitely was.
My "shoulds" and "expectations" are definitely not my H's, this I completely understand. What I want to know is not how to make H want to do what I want him to do, but rather how I can stop the thought processes that lead me down the should and expectation paths.
Hi Maggie, How are you doing? sorry I haven't written back to you sooner. And now I've got to run for a bday party.
Sounds like we think A LOT alike!! Yes, it sux! I HATE more than anything to feel jealous. I asked one of my friends how she doesnt' get j. Her h makes a lot of comments about other women...I know I would freak. She said that she too hates feeling that way and she just DECIDED NOT to feel that way! WoW ! I'd like to do that.
I think H felt he was left at home all the time, plus I was not into sex very much, so I think that's where the neglect came in. He felt controlled because he felt he didn't have a choice in either being able to do what he wanted, or in being able to have sex. BUT, he didn't voice this to me, that is why I felt this wasn't a problem, although now I see it definitely was.