I think that it is important to validate his feelings but you should be careful to NOT accept all of the blame. The more blame person A accepts the less blame person B will assume. In other words validate without saying, It is all my fault. Please forgive me.
Quote: He is now expressing anger and resentment that has been burning up inside him for years - is it good that he is bringing it out in the open? Is this part of the healing process? Or does repeatedly expressing it keep it in the foreground? I know it is something that he has to deal with but what actions can I do on my part to help him get past it?
At least in my sitch, she burned off a lot of anger the first couple of months, while I was DB'ing. She eventually got it out, and we rarely fight (once every couple of weeks now). It seems to be part of the healing process that they need to get the hurt out.
You seem to be doing pretty well hanging onto the DB methods and following them (with a couple of backslides,but we're only human; it gets easier to not backslide as time goes on).
Bill.
"you are who you chose to be" - Iron Giant
Link To CURRENT Sitch
Hi LoveForever, I'm trying to figure out the same thing. Your sitch and mine are very similar. My H is acting this way as well...his attitude toward me lately has been more annoyed than over the last few weeks. It started this weekend and especially on Mother's Day. He had a little angry streak going...was asking me what I would do if he was out of the picture forever, how I would raise our son, what kind of person I'd want him to be, what I'd do to make sure that happened, etc. Then he told me he didn't know if I could be the kind of wife he always thought he would have. I asked him to explain exactly what that wife would do, and he said she would cook, clean, take care of his kid, and make him feel loved when he came home every night. He didn't want to have chores to do when he came home...wanted it all handled for him so he could just sit and relax. WTF??? Ya, wouldn't we all like that. BTW, I do all those things now, so I'm not sure to what level I'm supposed to take it so I'm meeting his expecations.
Anyway, I think their moods fluctuate as much as ours. It just depends on the day, the quality/quantity of interaction with the OW, the level of guilt they are feeling, their own self-confidence at any particular moment, etc. I've tried not to let myself get too upset when he talks to me like that (although it's hard). I just think to myself that the tides will turn again in a few days (hopefully) and he'll swing the other way. It's an emotional rollercoaster...there are days when I swear I'm done with this and am ready to file, then a few hours later I've calmed down and get my next wave of patience and I think I can hold out for a while longer.
Sounds like you're doing the right things. Keep up the good work.
validate his complaints, but don't take blame. Next time he says somethig let him know that you hear and understand him. If It is something that might come up in the furture let him know that you see your part in it and that is something with you that you have to work on.
We each have our own little part in what happens in life. I belive we can Acknowlage it but at the same time not take the blame for what is wroung. And as long as we acknowladge our part and work on that we are moving in the wright diction.
Quote: Anyway, I think their moods fluctuate as much as ours.
I have a coworker who swares up and down that men PMS just like wemon. She has gone to the point of keeping traks of her and her H moods swings and they both know when it is time to let things just roll. She has suggest for me to do it. (But H never talks enough for me to try)
And maybe he had a bad time with OW, and taking out on you. That is really something noone knows. Just like when a bad day makes you cranky How would he know if you snapped. I think that every one had a habit of every now and then letting outside things effect R. I know that is one of my faults. And form what I have absevre others to.
Just try to go with the flow. In DR it talks aobut there will be good days and bad days. Sometimes it will be good weeks vs. bad weeks. We are on one hell of a roller coaster trying not to get thrown off. Just keep a good grip.
LF, you don't know me, but I'm an "oldtimer" in Piecing. There's a couple of things I want to relay to you right now that I hope will help. I know you're reacting all over the place, but you need to play real smart right now to save your marraige. Don't let him push your buttons. The OW is desperately trying to hang onto him and he's trying to extricate himself. Be an attractive alternative to the BS she is pulling! You KNOW this man. You know what made him fall in love with you in the first place and he needs to be reminded of those qualities.
His anger and blame is caused by a couple of things. First, don't let his dragging out a garbage bag full of complaints about every little thing he's ever been peeved about in your marraige. Listen and validate (you might pick up some usefull information about his needs) but don't accept blame in your own mind.
In order to have an A in the first place, most people have to start rewriting the history of their marraige in a negative way. It's a way to rationalize what they are doing that is a violation of themselves, their marraige, their family, their morals and values, and their love for their spouse! It's a handy little mental magic trick...but it doesn't take long after a decision to reconcile for them to realize they were demonizing their LBS in order to justify having an A.
You're H is probably also feeling guilty and ashamed and projecting it onto you because he's in fight or flight mode right now.
It's all very typical "A" behavior, so try not to take 90% of the negative things he says to heart right now.
If you want to save your M, you have to play smart and stratagize like you are a General at war right now! Use the DBing principals like your handbook.
Thanks for you advice and encouragement guys, this board is the only thing that keeps me from going to the sluts house and strangling her.
I didn't call him all day at work yesterday, he called me just as he left for no particular reason. I had a doctors appoinment and got home about 1 hour later than usual. When I got home he was all worried about where I was, he had forgotton about the doctor. Anyways he asked me to hug with him on the couch and he kept kissing me. I told him that I had a bad day with the traffic and I had a headache.
He tried to take care of me and make me feel better. Then he started with the R talk. He asked me if I get mad at him when he goes with OW. I said no, that I get sad and jealous. He hugged me and said that OW is jealous of me too. I said she has no right to be jealous, that I am his wife. He said 'but we are separated now'. I said so what?
The affair started 3 months ago, we have only been separated for 1 month. She told you that she didn't care if you were married or not, she doesn't care about what she is doing to me or our child or our home etc... I said why would he want to be with someone who places so little value on marriage? He put his fingers to my lips and said shhh, he said that I shouldn't speculate about her, that this situation is all his fault not OW, that he told her he wasn't happy at home, I said it doesn't matter, she knew you were married.
He asked me if I thought OW loved him, I said I think she believes that. He asked if I thought that he loved OW? I said I think you believe that you do, but that the two of you don't really know each other in the real world. He said what did I mean by that? That they know each other well. I got mad and told him that if he is so sure about it then go and be with her. (dumb response on my part, I explained myself better in an email I sent today, you'll see it later in the post....)
Anyways he asked why I still ML with him, knowing about OW? I said why do you still ML with me when you say you would rather be with her? He said he guesses we are both the same, (not sure what that meant) I asked him if he is happier with her? He said yes. I asked him if he thinks he will be happy without me? He said he doesn't know, that right now he is spoiled because I am still here. And then he said even though we are separated he is still 'here' too.
He said he does love me, (He always says he loves me, but not in love) I didn't question which kind of 'love' he meant. Anyways we went outside and sat on the stairs and looked at the stars together. I told him that he shouldn't leave OW for me, that he needs to do it for himself, if that is what he decides. He got angry and asked me how come I am so brave now? That I have been telling him to leave her all this time! I said that wasn't true, that I only said that when I first found out (before I knew about DB). I told him that I understand that if he leaves her, it doesn't mean that he will come back to me.
He sat on the stairs and asked me to sit in front of him, then he put his arms around me and we talked and joked around. It was really nice. Then we went inside and ML.
After he told me that whenever we ML, he feels bad after.
I said why? He said he feels bad for me. I told him not to feel bad, that if I feel uncomfortable with ML I will tell him. I don't know why he feels this way? Is it really guilt for me - feeling sorry for me? Or is it feeling sorry for himself for what he will be losing? Does ML with me make him realize that maybe he is still in love with me and can't be totally in love with OW? I think it confuses him.
Anyways I sent him this email today, I know it isn't good to talk about his R with OW, but he asked me last night and I didn't really have a chance to think of a response. By the way even though we had a wonderful night, he is going out with OW tonight.....
"I was thinking about what you were asking me yesterday, and as usual my brain wasn't functioning properly and I couldn't
express my feelings. You asked me if I thought that the two of you were in love with each other. I told you that I understand that you both believe that. I know that you are happier when you are with her, I know you are attracted to her, and I know you care about her.
But I know why the grass looks greener over there. Right now all you guys do is eat, drink and party. If that is all we did, we would be the happiest couple on the planet. But that is not reality. You guys don't have to deal with the stress of everyday life. What is the biggest decision you have to deal with? Which restaurant to go to? You don't have to worry about money, raising a child, taking care of a home, dealing with family stress etc.... Right now, you both see each other at your best, of course it seems wonderful. What do you have to argue about?
I am taking on half the stress of real life from you and you know it. Without me you will have to deal with all the problems on your own, without my support. How well do you think your new found love will hold up against the pressure of everyday life?
You told me that right now you are spoiled because you have both of us, but how long will this go on? Eventually you will have to decide which life you want. I don't know if you will choose to try work on building a new relationship with me or if you will stay with her. Either way you need to think about what you are losing. Remember I told you that the longer you stay with her the harder it will be to break up with her, at least she doesn't work with you any longer so you won't have any reason to be in contact with her. You think that we are 'torturing' each other by staying in the same house. Don't kid yourself, it won't be any easier if we part. Divorce is not the easy way out, it is very painful and effects the entire family.
I am going to continue to respect your wishes, and leave you alone. You need to figure out what you should do."
This may set me back, but it needed to be said. I will continue to avoid talking about OW and R unless he brings it up....
Well after spending all night with his slut, my H called me in the morning, said he got really drunk last night and doesn't feel good, he was going to call in sick. I said okay, was nice and didn't question him. I assumed he would come home and sleep. I just found out that he hasn't come home yet. I called the OW work and found out that she is not in either! HE IS MISSING WORK TO BE WITH THAT LITTLE SLUT!! This is unacceptable!! not only has he wasted thousands of dollars being with her, now he is missing work too!! I am FURIOUS!! How the hell am I supposed to be nice and friendly towards him when he is being totally irresponsible!! I am not going to let him drag me down financially with him. The only way he is able to afford our current lifestyle is because I foot half the household expenses, without me, H, his mom, brother and our custodial son would have to move to an appartment, there is no way he can afford the house on his own, let alone the car and insurance etc... WHY THE HELL SHOULD I CONTINUE TO PAY FOR HIM TO BE WITH HER??? I have told him this many times before as I see the money being wasted away on her. (dinner and drinks etc....)
This is the last straw, I know that it will go against DB prinicples but I cannot be a doormat while he uses me for my money. I know that if I saw him right now I would probably slap him in the face, but I am hoping my anger subsides by the time I see him in a few hours.
What do I say to him? How can I continue to be friendly and inviting towards him (which he reciprocates) if he is not being accoutable for his actions?
They are affecting our son, and our living situation.
I think I will tell him he needs to get a part time job to payback all the money he has wasted (he actually suggested this before but I said no). Also, I don't want to spend time with him right now, let alone ML or cuddle, which I know he will want to do tonight. Should I go out and come home late? Should I let him see how angry I am at his irresponsibility? Should I ignore him? I don't want to push him towards her, but at the same time I can't let him get away with this.....Should I threaten legal action (seeing a lawyer). At this moment I don't know if I want to spend the rest of my life with someone who is so F&(&(ed up.
honey, you do what you feel is right. And if it is having a negtive afect on son. A child comes before any adult.
But rember to try to stay clam. Right now is a time for a lot of soul seaching on your part. You might need to detach take a step back for a couple of days. At least until your angery is a little less sreave.
I am not saying don't feel what emoutins you have but don't let the emotions rule you. And ask your self what are my goals now. And is this helping or hurting.
Before you blow your top to H. Make sure S is at a friends for the night. S dosn't not need to be witness to an very emiontionly scane. And if possiable, try to vent her so you would say od do something you might regreet later.
thanks for the advice kitkat, you are helping me stay focused.
When I got home I told him that I can't believe that he called in sick to be with her. He replied that he called in sick because he was hungover. I said yes, because you were OUT DRINKING WITH HER!! I asked why he said he didn't want our son to know that he is out all night, but then continues to do it? I told him that a judge wouldn't think he was a responsible parent considering that he goes out drinking all night 3 times a week. (we have custody issues with his biological parents - they would love to know what he is doing...) Anyways, it was hard to stay mad cause he kept agreeing with me, (it's like he was d'bing!) he said he won't go out late on the weeknights or on the weekends we have our son at home. I said okay, but you have said this before. He kept hugging and kissing me. He also said I was the love of his life (WTF). Then he said how beautiful I look now, that he can't believe all the changes I made now that we are 'finishing'. (I almost cried at that).
I told him that I have to go to the store. He didn't want me to leave, he said he doesn't want me to be angry at him. I told him that if he acts responsibly then I won't be mad. He kept asking me if I had a date? I said what if I do? He then said with who? I said I am not telling him anything cause he doesn't tell me what he is doing. He asked me if I had kissed anyone else? I said none of your business. He then said that if I wanted to date someone it was fine cause we were separated. But he wouldn't drop it. Kept asking me. Finally I said that he is assuming I am going out on a romantic date with a guy, when really I am just going with my female friend. Then he kept asking why I let him assume that I was dating. I said because you keep asking me. He told me that I don't need to tell him anything, but if I sleep with someone to let him know????
(I think that if I cheat on him, it will give him justifcation to leave me completely- he still doesn't understand why I still love him after he has betrayed me).
Anyways he kept hugging and kissing me, his cell phone rang, I said oh, that must be your bitch. I tried to grab the phone and he took it and put it on the shelf. He asked me if I wanted to talk to OW? I said I had a few things to say to her, but that I didn't need to, she would get what she deserved eventually. He said what did I mean by that? Did I think that the two of them wouldn't work out? I replied that I had already told him he doesn't have a future with her, but that he needed to figure that out for himself - it wasn't my problem. He got mad and asked me if I thought he was going to break up with her soon and then come back to me? I said no, that I don't know what's going to happen. But I said that if their relationship didn't work out, it didn't mean ours would instead.
I know that this was very bad d'bing. I am going to back off again. I told him that I wasn't going to fight over this with him anymore UNLESS he starts being irresponsible again.
He is in such denial about her. I am getting really scared that he will just get closer and closer to her. I know that in the long run they will not work out because his family will not accept her, (they told me they want to kill her.) Also, my MIL and son will always live with my H. Can you imagine the stress of living with someone that despises you? There are other factors too, such as financial stress - he cannot come close to the lifestyle we have now on his salary (even if she adds hers).
The problem is that this could take years for him to figure out. We would have to divorce, sell the house etc... for him to fully realize what life without me means, and to see that once the partying is over, being with OW is not so good afterall.
I am scared that we will have to destroy everything we have worked so hard for and hurt so many people, just so he can see that I am not what makes him unhappy.
I am scared that once we actually take it to the next level (making separation official, tell our families/friends, work out financial details etc...) that too much damage will be done and we won't beable to get back together regardless.
I know I am getting ahead of myself, that I need to take it one day at a time.
How can I make him see what the reality of life without me is, without actually wrecking all that we have built together? His mom and our son will still stay in our house regardless of who leaves (she said she won't leave with him or live with her). These are the possible scenarios:
1. I know that if I make him leave our house, he won't last a week. He gets homesick all the time, even on our honeymoon, he missed his mom and our son so much. (but then he may resent me for making him leave)
2. I could leave for a week or so. I threatened this a few times and he always stops me, saying he would miss me too much, that he needs to be my friend and comfort me etc... (maybe he won't miss me too much cause then he will spend ALL his time with OW, justifying his happiness with her)
3. We chould continue living together as we do, but how do I act:
a) Do I detach and not spend much time with him, go out a lot and just act as though I am a border/roommate? (I am afraid if I do this he will get used to it and be happy that I am moving on and letting him off the 'guilt' hook. This will make the effects of an LRT harder won't it?)
OR
b) Do I continue to spend a lot of time with him, acting as a friend? continue to ML, take showers, kiss and be loving towards him without mentioning OW (acting as if). (If I do this, I am afraid nothing will change and we will be in limbo land forever)
I am glad that what little adivce I can come up with helps. But please don't but to much stock on what I say. All I can do is give you my take on things and hope it helps and not harms what you are doing.
As for letting H have it because of staying out all night drinking. I belive you are in the right. You have to but your son frist.
Quote: (I think that if I cheat on him, it will give him justifcation to leave me completely- he still doesn't understand why I still love him after he has betrayed me).
I think that is normal for the one who cheated to feel. I know my H has siad he would understand if I slept with someone else. And every now and then he asks me why do I keep trying to hold our M together. All I can tell him that I am following my heart, and not my head. My heart tells my to try to learn to get past this because I still love him. My head tells me to take him for everything he has, so the OW won't get anything.
Quote: He is in such denial about her. I am getting really scared that he will just get closer and closer to her.
This to is noraml (I think). When I strat to get really scared that H is geting closer to OW and farther away form me. I try to pull back. Do something nice for myslef that makes me feel better about me. And I come here and read others post. Try to think of something that might help someone esle and take my mind off of my problems. Somethimes I come across something here, that another went tru, that helps me.
Quote: I am scared that we will have to destroy everything we have worked so hard for and hurt so many people, just so he can see that I am not what makes him unhappy.
I am scared that once we actually take it to the next level (making separation official, tell our families/friends, work out financial details etc...) that too much damage will be done and we won't beable to get back together regardless.
I belive that is one of the reasons DR is written to help you work on yourslef. One of the main tings is to strat doing things for you. Make yourself stronger. So if it comes to that you will bend but not break.
Quote: 1. I know that if I make him leave our house, he won't last a week. He gets homesick all the time, even on our honeymoon, he missed his mom and our son so much. (but then he may resent me for making him leave)
2. I could leave for a week or so. I threatened this a few times and he always stops me, saying he would miss me too much, that he needs to be my friend and comfort me etc... (maybe he won't miss me too much cause then he will spend ALL his time with OW, justifying his happiness with her)
3. We chould continue living together as we do, but how do I act:
a) Do I detach and not spend much time with him, go out a lot and just act as though I am a border/roommate? (I am afraid if I do this he will get used to it and be happy that I am moving on and letting him off the 'guilt' hook. This will make the effects of an LRT harder won't it?)
OR
b) Do I continue to spend a lot of time with him, acting as a friend? continue to ML, take showers, kiss and be loving towards him without mentioning OW (acting as if). (If I do this, I am afraid nothing will change and we will be in limbo land forever)
I think that maybe you need to spend time with H. But set boundies, Maybe not as much ML or cuddling. Try to contect with out being physical
Try to be friends agien. Do things together, like watch movies, play card games. Find something other than son, OW, work, (life in genral to talk about). Try to think of things you would talk to a friend about and try and talk to H aobut theam. See how that works.
Even if you spend time with H. Also take a small break form H and do things for you. And I would leave, but that is just me.
