Quote: Yikes! This would not work. Not an area she would want to talk about or discuss. Surely this is part of our problem, but I really don't know how to surmount it. And even if it WAS the case, what then? She is very protective and defensive and I know what subjects are taboo. What can I say?
If you can't even talk about it, you'll never get anywhere. Maybe a C is what you two need. I found it easier to talk in front of a C and say things to my W I couldn't bring myself to say. Once I got into the habit of doing it, it became somewhat easier, but I still sometimes (most of the time) fear confronting her with sex-related issues. Just have to bite the bullet and do it. It's part of regaining my self-confidence. Sounds like you may need to work on that, too. What's she going to do, divorce you for wanting to talk about it? I doubt she would. You have to trust that she loves you enough to get past the anger that she feels that you are bringing up a sensitive subject, and will eventually be okay with talking about it with you.
Mojo, I wasn't promiscuous in high school either but, boy, I wanted to be. I wanted sex and I didn't do a very good job of hiding that fact. I did hold out until college but I was always amazed at the "stories" that circulated about me, none of which were true. Seems that if you are a girl who does not put on the (mostly fake) act of hating sex, then you get a reputation.
Bolete, here is my opinion on promiscuity. I do not believe for ONE MINUTE that the majority of promiscuous young girls are that way because they love sex. In fact, I would say that they are like that because they hate themselves. Their low self esteem causes them to seek out validation and "love" with their bodies. They feel wanted and desired. Either that, or they have been abused. It is far too much of a leap to say that being promiscuous in hs is a sign of a future HD woman!
I think the big difference is that...while I always DID say the usual "we've gotta stop" as a young teen, I never wanted to! Ever.
But I do believe that people are born with their sex drives. I am sure that I have always been HD. I don't ever remember a time when I wasn't. Although Cathy's story is scaring the crud outta me. What a nightmare! To escape a sexless marriage and then be completely overwhelmed by a new lover. Ugh! Reminds me of that saying, Be careful what you wish for..
Quote: Bolete, here is my opinion on promiscuity. I do not believe for ONE MINUTE that the majority of promiscuous young girls are that way because they love sex. In fact, I would say that they are like that because they hate themselves. Their low self esteem causes them to seek out validation and "love" with their bodies. They feel wanted and desired.
Honeypot, you have hit the nail directly on the head. I had my share of partners during late high school/college for that exact reason. I felt like sex was the only thing I had to offer and if I didn't offer it, I wouldn't get what I so desperately wanted, which was a true relationship. Of course, once the guys got what they wanted, that was the end of their contact with me.
Luckily, I had some good friends during my junior and senior years who finally knocked some sense into me.
When I was in high school, I knew the strength of my desires, and stayed away from girls because I didn't think I had enough self control to handle it.
I was also pretty scared of rejection, and tended to avoid girls for that reason as well.
I guess that's why I wonder if Anne-Marie's behavior really suggests that she would be LD in marriage. I'm certainly HD by any measure I can think of, but my history looks more like Anne-Marie's than like NoMojoBlue's or CattleKid's.
Quote: Bolete, here is my opinion on promiscuity. I do not believe for ONE MINUTE that the majority of promiscuous young girls are that way because they love sex. In fact, I would say that they are like that because they hate themselves. Their low self esteem causes them to seek out validation and "love" with their bodies. They feel wanted and desired. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
OH, COM'ON, GUYS!!!!! PLEEEEESE!!!!! What an incredible amount of assumptions you're making!!!!!! HD gals - gather 'round!!! make yourselves known!!!!
I was 10, 12, 14, 16, 19, 21, 26, 32, 38, 43, 45.... and every age and year in-between and I KNEW what God had blessed/cursed me with!!!!
I always loved and appreciated my body - but so many guys were so critical!!! A bit of a skin-fold here, a not-so-perfect hair day there, maybe an extra 5 pounds, or a bit too boney and skinny.... never did I find someone who accepted me as I am, until now - later in mid-life!!! But I believed all the others - at least for a while. It's so difficult to say "you're wrong! I'm OK!!!"
But back to the quote, and what you guys were saying....
I first had sex at 15, with a man who was 30, someone I'd know for many years - I knew exactly what I was doing, and I was on a mission to lose my virginity before I was 16 (had something to do with the mucical 'Hair' and the song about the "..16 year old virgin" !!!) He was married, we told his wife and she was fine with it - even joined us in bed!! (OK, it was the free-love 70's) It was great - exciting, educational, erotic - but I wasn't 'in-love' with him, and after a while, had no real reason to stick around.... no problem, we remained friends. Not that it was a necessity for me to be 'in-love' with someone.... I had other boyfriends throughout highschool - a bit of sex here and there - but none of them really knew how to deal with me. My long-term boyfriend was lots of fun, and we did everything 'but' - by his parameteres as a good Catholic - and we were together until college. In college, I met the man that I ended up in marriage with (see below), but saw a few other people as well. It was a time of confusion and searching for self-identification, which is perhaps why I went into the marriage that I did.....
(BTW, intellectually I did quite well throughout school - started college courses in high school at 15, etc.)
Well, the rest of my life history would take up a whole other forum.... let it just speak for itself that I ended up marrying a very LD man at 23 (oh, such Catholic guilt - and having to follow the example of my parents good marriage!!!)... divorce after 10 years, followed by another relationship where, yes, he 'masked' being HD for a time, but when it really came down to it, he was much more LD than I was (maybe he's in the "norm" of the bell curve???? - once every week or two???? could that be the norm???) and our relationship is a textbook example of SSM, only with me in the HD role. He also traveled extensively (years in total out of our marriage), and didn't want to be intimate much even when he was around. It took me more than a decade to come to terms with it, and eventually I made the decision to file for divorce..... being in my mid-40's, I still have so much life ahead of me.... I couldn't face living it in the way I was.
Now I am with a man who is truly HD, and the joy in our lives is exquisite!!! Loving, nurturing, enjoying every aspect.... uninhibited, juicy, wild, imaginative, sensitive, incredibly intimate, he is my other half.... our sex is mind-blowing, like nothing I've ever experienced before, and as frequent as we both want it..... once, twice, ten times a day sometimes. We experiment with countless aspects of lovemaking and sexuality, from toys to latex to erotic writings to ancient tantric techniques, and everything inbetween. We communicate on every level, so closely, respectfully, and as individuals who are with each other by choice. It is a gift from God, and I give thanks each day, each moment, that he and I are in each others lives. Yes, we both have lives where we work, and I have a young (elementary age) son, who lives with me full time (his dad, my second husband, now lives out of state) - but our intimate lives are incredibly valuable to us, and we make and take the time to nurture our sexuality, and give voice and body to our love. It is our wellspring of energy, our touchstone, our celebration of ourselves together and as individuals. We nourish it.
So, once again, back to your original quote - I knew I was HD my entire life.... but I didn't know quite what to do with it and how to handle it. Unfortunately, neither did 90% of the men I was with. So much suffering, so much self doubt - I read it all again in every persons story here is this SSM forum - such pain in all your lives.
Being with another who is HD, and accepts himself for it - and takes joy in me being HD!! ..... it is beyond description... it is heaven given to us here on earth.
To all of you HD's, all I can say is - you can't deny your nature. Probably it has been with you, been a part of you your whole life. I had to let go of my LD relationship - I know he will find someone who can appreciate him just as he is. But it was such a struggle between us, neither of us was happy. Now we both have a chance to find our mates, our matches....
.... which leads me to a question: are there LD/LD's out there who are happy in their lives and relationships??? I'll have to seach around on this site to see...
I wish you all love, sex, and fufillment in your lives,
Lucy, I'm really happy that you are so happy but if everything is so great, then what are you doing on this site besides telling a bunch of people to give up on their marriages?
I think it's is a very rare occurrence to have a match like yours "happen" and I'm only countering to explain that it's not as simple as divorcing your partner, then finding an HD partner and then living happily ever after. I have to draw attention to the fact that you got lucky and it's given you the ability to reverse-engineer your situation into something that seems "simple" because in your sitch, it was. It would be like me winning $1M on a slot machine and telling everyone to quit their jobs, cash out their 401Ks and go to Vegas because it was so easy..."I just dropped a dollar in a slot machine and won $1M dollars."
Don't get me wrong about your lifestyle, I would love it if my W were into it. But I think we are all trying to exhaust every last possibility before we do something that drastic and lazy.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
I'm just lurking (my sitch is over in the "Newcomer's Forum",) but I wanted to add a couple of things.
I think you can be LD or HD depending on your partner/circumstances.
There have been times I have been either LD or HD. If my partner is easy-going, patient (it takes me a long time to climax, and I am very sensitive to my partner getting tired/annoyed/etc. Also, it seems that some men are used to the "porn" orgasm--instant, no real communication necessary, etc)
I had a significant relationship in my early 20's that was very HD--very creative boyfriend, patient, paid attention to what turned me on, etc.
Next significant R was quite LD for us both--I had been hurt by the first R, and he had a bad back. It didn't really matter that we didn't ML all that much, and the R ended for other reasons.
Then came my H, who started out HD and was very creative in bed, but lacked patience. Then he had some physical problems that made him self-conscious. Our sex life was never what I wanted it to be (1 or 2x a month) from pretty much the time we married, but because he lacked patience, I didn't really fret about it--I love this man and that made up for it. It wasn't a big deal to me really.
Right before our marital problems caused him to drop the IDLY bomb, we went to one of those "sex stores" together, and got some toys, and things have never been the same! Since it takes me quite a while to climax, I use the new vibrator, and he doesn't get tired. We have watched some decent movies, where there is actually someone willing to communicate with their partner, and it has obviously affected him. We have both started exploring sides of ourselves that we never have. I kind of knew that he COULD be HD, and I felt like I COULD be HD with the right person, and now, he IS the right person, if that makes sense!
Even through our troubles, our sex life has done nothing but get better, and more frequent. But, reason I'm here, he may not be in my life much longer.
If we went back to being LD, it wouldn't make me not want my husband back. Shoot--if we NEVER had sex, I would still want him...and if we patch this up and have it 2x a day, yippee!!
I think Laura has a great point that we change based upon our partner. I'm HD and love the entire "mind" aspect of sexuality and could see myself having a great time with an HD woman as long as other key components were solidly in place first like love, attraction and general compatibility.
I used to date an HD girl who had a compulsion to shop excessively and once I saw that she was "not in total control of herself", her sexuality seemed more "genetic" too...like it was more of a "need for her" than an "expression of love". I then started to feel like a living vibrator. The sex got mechanical despite the variety (and I mean variety). I probably seemed LD after a while because I became "pursued" and didn't really like being with her because her behavior in bed was a reflection of how she lived her life in an undesirable fashion. So here she is in a relationship with someone she feels very compatible with (me), who then appears to do a "bait and switch" and really isn't into the sex anymore. It's probably pretty tough to find total compatibility.
It think it's better to strive towards a lifestyle with a partner you really love and are compatible with. We immediately assume that they are just LD and won't change but I'm seeing a difference in my LDW. It's little things, but if I plotted them on a piece of graph paper, then I could see us having some really wild, great, experimental sex in about 2 years...maybe even revisiting some things that we "chickened out" of before.
Like an HDW, my W is very uninhibited but she simply doesn't feel like doing it as much and she doesn't have a very strong sense of adventure right now. But the differentiation process (read Passionate Marriage) I'm going through seems to be giving me a "voice" that she pays attention to and I no longer would have trouble asking for her to do things that I would enjoy. She seems to be more receptive to my requests because she finally sees them as my desires and not my needs. She also sees my sexuality as being based upon love and integrity rather than a seething neediness and this is helping her relax and enjoy it more. Don't get me wrong though...sex based on "love and integrity" has nothing to do with how it's expressed. This was the first big mistake I made when we got married. I thought that sex should be "loving" which in my mind translated to having the act appear "nice and peaceful" when in reality (PM goes into this), "loving" in our relationship meant that I should send the headboard through the wall. This is all changing now. Part of us seems to be embracing the life we had in the early years while another part of us seem to be growing to a new level of loving. PM is a must read for everyone here. Especially folks older than 35.
My point is that if you both strive for differentiation, then it shouldn't be too difficult to have a very creative and exciting sex life. Of course, the process of differentiation is easier said than done.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Quote: Don't get me wrong about your lifestyle, I would love it if my W were into it. But I think we are all trying to exhaust every last possibility before we do something that drastic and lazy.
Drastic and lazy??? Listen here, AtlDAve - you don't even know me, you know nothing about my situation other than what you may have read here. Who are you to pass such judgement?
My decision was made with years of anguish, counseling, and emotional pain. It has definately not made my life easier in terms of logistics, now being a single parent with a very demanding job. The drastic part of life is simply living it. Making decisions to give yourself possible happiness is extremely difficult. And no one in my life, except my mother when I was a child and didn't do the dinner dishes, ever called me lazy. I've accomplished incredible things in my life, including founding and running two successful companies.
Until you know more about another person, Dave, you should be careful with making such judgemental statements.... you don't have a clue, nor a right to say such things.
I continue to read the postings on this board and sometimes post myself - particularly in this forum - even though my marriage is no longer viable, because I feel that an infusion of hope, of joy, of potential happiness in life needs to be said here sometimes.
I am completely aware that I am lucky - blessed - by the relationship that I am in now. We are in harmony in all aspects of our life, and it gives me the freedom to be absolutely me.
I am not writing things to make you jealous, nor to tell you to leave your marriage. I am saying that there is potential in life, in yours, your spouses, your children, everyones.... that there is so much out there to experience and explore, on your own or with your partner. If you want to have a joyful, fulfilling sex life, then immerse yourself in the positive aspects of sex and lovemaking!! Read, educate yourself, share your thoughts, feelings, and emotions with your partner! If you want openness and good communications, begin by being open and communicating well!! In another area of this forum, I gave a list of books and also of websites on sexuality and positive relationships - look it up (do a search for ms_lucy). Rather than reflecting on what is wrong, accentuate on what is right, and build on that. Certainly, Michelle's SSM book is good and has some solid advice - but it is not the end-all-be-all.
And finally, if after 'leaving no stone unturned', you conclude that your current relationship will never hold for you the harmony, closeness, sexuality, companionship, or other qualities that you've determined are important and necessary for you to live your life going forward, then take the steps into the bold, new, frightening world of being alone. To me, my decision was made when I knew I would be happier alone than with my partner.
And live your life with hope, and joy, and PASSION in all aspects.... you never know who you will meet, and where you can go. Just be open and aware - of yourself, of others, and of the possibilites that your path in life offers.
PLEEEEESE!!!!! What an incredible amount of assumptions you're making!!!!!! HD gals - gather 'round!!! make yourselves known!!!! 