Thanks for the explanations of the books; even though we may not feel we need help in those areas now, I think it's still a good idea to be prepared and maybe *crosses fingers* avoid those sits all together.
BTW...totally off subject, but H and I ML last night...without having intercourse. It was the first time I'd allowed him to give me OS in a loooooong time. I'm talkin MONTHS. Then I gave him some manual help. Afterwards, he told me how much he enjoyed pleasing me, and how hurt it made him feel that I never allowed him to do so. I knew he really missed it, and it's not that I don't enjoy it or that he isn't goooooooooood at it, I just feel akward when he's down there and I'm up here and I can't hold him or kiss him. Does that make sense? Either way, we both feel extremely close today and that would be worth *enduring* OS from him anytime.
><> Hope everyone's enjoying this spectacular weekend!!
says in his book that for many women (and I'm one of them) affection is the main event whereas for most men sex is the main event. That's not to say that women don't need or want sex, and that men don't want affection, it's just we're different.
....I recall reading an author somewhere who compared many men to lamps (on and off switch) and many women to irons (need time to warm up) when it comes to sex. That's a pretty accurate description of my marriage; but when my husband is regularly very affectionate, I feel as though I'm an iron that's turned on to "low heat" most of the time, and it takes much less time and effort to turn the heat up than starting from cold.
....men use love to get sex, and women use sex to get love.
Hey Mich, Dr. Harley has some really good stuff along with the other books. But I'm a little bothered by the quotes above.
I know there's "some" truth in these generalizations about various sexes, but other than providing superficial "understanding", they seem to demotivate people from really examining themselves and trying to change...belittling human will.
Mich, you are an exception here as an LD who was very influenced by SSM. You were a perfect candidate for it. Some of us here are having a hell of a time because our LD partners have lost more than their desire, they've lost the motivation to "invest" energy back into the relationship.
Fuzzy and hubby should always look at various ways to strengthen things. I bet fuzzy and husband, with their age have an excellent opportunity to avert huge "course corrections" like we are going through. I would just recommend that when they get into concepts that generalize, they they be very careful to not use it as a hammer to "validate a position" or a reason not to change. Heck, my first instinct with SSM was to get my W to "just do it" but when she "just didn't" (btw...it was her idea to become more physical too), we unveiled some serious, yet subtle problems in our R that would prevent ideas in SSM, and Dr. Harley from ever working.
Just my 2 cents. Be cool. Mich, I congratulate you on how motivated you are being...you have a lucky husband.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
My H is very uncomfortable with me going solo so I do it privately. Usually I go to bed a little before him and am done by the time he comes to bed. It's funny, I was the one who went to Catholic school for 12 years and he's the one with the Mast. hangup.
Is he uncomfortable with you doing it by yourself or just at all? I mean, what does he do when you invite him to watch or join in? For me, (R3, M1) I almost never MB. In the beginning of the R, I did it in front of him (while he was driving, if you can imagine that!) only once or twice. Since then, I have felt way too self-concious to even think about doing it in front of him. It's funny to me how I could do it in the front seat of a moving vehicle only three months into our R, but now, 3 yrs later, I can't even think about it.
I too "take care of myself," usually in the shower or the bathroom (has anyone else noticed if you order even ONE thing from Victoria's Secret catalog, they will send you like TWO A WEEK for the NEXT FIVE YEARS??)... or, even in bed at night while the LD/ND wife sleeps next to me. I even do it at work.
I'm sure she's noticed the stains, but I guess I really don't care, and part of me WANTS her to know what I've had to do since she won't even try to make me happy. All I've really HAD the past few years IS my rich fantasy life, and I've learned to enjoy it and even get into it.
You're making me cry...I can't imagine being the reason my H had those feelings. I feel so sorry for you, I wish I could shake your W and make her realize how much she's hurting you.
But...if she does know what you're doing, it doesn't help motivate her to change. I feel like I keep saying the same thing over and over, but I've been on her end of things. If she knows you're doing it, she probably feels like it's easier to let you do it than to try and change. She's probably thinking, 'Why should I put effort into changing when he isn't putting effort into changing?' From my experience, my first reaction to my H taking care of himself was hurt, but that quickly turned to anger and resentment. I know this isn't a helpful attitude, but it's a natural one, and one she probably doesn't know how to change. It took a lot for me to finally confront my H about it and tell him how it made me feel.
And yeah, VS will send you stuff for the rest of your life. My H doesn't seem to mind, either.
><> If he was using the VS that I'm in, I probably wouldn't mind so much.
Thanks for the nice note. Although I STILL won't make love to my wife tonite, it does somehow make me feel just a LITTLE bit better.
I know what you're saying, but the truth is that I HAVE always been the one to try to change things. I buy books (Mars & Venus, 5 LLs, SSM), I vow to come home 30-45 minutes earlier from work just so we can spend some time together, I am supportive of her college work, I help with the dishes and the kids, etc. I would send the roses, I would make the custom CD of all of "our songs" from over the years, I would tell HER how wonderful she looked that day or evening, even tho the compliment was never returned.
After 15 years of this, I guess I've finally just kinda said "F&$k it." It hurts to be this cold, but it hurts a helluva lot LESS than pathetically wanting her every day, and being the "sap."
Chocolateeyes, it sounds like you've tried a LOT of things, and nothing has worked. I think you also realize that the status quo doesn't work, either. What have you got to lose by trying one more thing? Just make sure you try something different. If you've been reading the posts of a few of us the past few days on the subject of Passionate Marriage (they're in a FEW threads, so look around), you might be wondering what all the fuss is about. This, I can promise you, is TOTALLY new. Just get the book and read it. Read it from beginning to end. See if it doesn't give you some new tools and a new outlook to try. As AtlantaDave said, I promise you none of us have any affiliation with the author or publisher - we just know we're onto something MUCH more promising than The Five Love Languages or songs or poetry or flowers...
I will; thanks. I have been following your enthusiasm recently; I guess I'm just jaded by previous threads that started out so hopeful, and by the time I'd click over to Page 4, it was right back to where it used to be.
Somewhere I noticed it changing, It was there behind your eyes I don’t know when it happened, But in the darkness I’d cry
For what used to be Just how it used to be So loving and tender I knew it’s where you wanted to be Hell, we didn’t know anything But one thing we knew Was just you and me Oh baby can I take you back Gotta get us back To where we used to be
FF, How come you once used to do it in front of him but then got self-conscious later? I would have thought once your R was that open you couldn't go backwards.
I've just made a wierd break-through in our R today. Last night after my ND GF went to sleep, I MBed but I forgot this morning that I had left my gel lubricant on the floor beside the bed. I was already working on the computer at home when she made up the bed and discovered it and said "what's this?". Calmly, I said "that's for tossing off" and carried on working. So when then said "so when did you toss off?", I replied "last night after you slept". We have never discussed this subject and in the past, I would have been severely embarrased as no-one has ever caught me 'red-handed', so to speak. However, I felt liberated that I had been so open with her but quietly wondered what she thought about it.
Now all day she has been very nice to me. Not in a sexual way at all but she brought me tea and snacks while I worked at my PC and generally spoke to me quite sweetly all day. What do you think of this? I wonder whether a little bit of jealousy might sometimes help (even if the other woman is "Handrietta"!) ?
I feel great today, like some kind of burden has been lifted from me as I imagine a gay person might feel when they come out. I'm a masturbator!!!
