Stop spending thought and energy avoiding your husband, thinking negatively about sex, listing out all the ways he irritates you - in other words, whatever negative input you run through your head regarding your husband and sex needs to be expurgiated.
Start replacing those negative recurring thoughts with good thoughts about your husband.
Start listing out and thinking of those characteristics you admire about him. Or those things you know are admirable, whether or not you currently admire him for them.
Hard working, good father, protective, intelligent, sensitive, funny, generous, quick wit, a leader, quick to forgive, knowledgeable, eager, thoughtful, etc. Add the things he has ever done in your relationship, think upon the things he just did yesterday, last week, etc.
Start replacing the entrenched negative thoughts with the positive ones. In the same way that your negative thoughts have been creeping out into to attitudes and behaviors toward your husband, the positive ones will begin to change your interactions with him.
And if you want to make it even better, start expressing those things to him verbally.
Quote: If your husband came to you tomorrow with bags packed and told you that he couldn't live this way anymore, you would probably discover that he suddenly was worth your efforts in this arena. Why wait for that moment to occur?
Ok, now you have my attention.
I don't think he would leave, he really doesn't 'complain' much... outloud... to me... verbally! I notice him getting 'short' with everyone, and I guess this is how he shows he is 'frustrated' with things. But no, I wouldn't want to face that before I made a change.
I'm just wondering how you make the decision STICK? How do you keep on 'doing it' in the long run and not fall back into your regular old patterns. I realize I have to make a committment, but staying the course seems to be a big hurdle. I don't think H is going to 'lovingly' remind me!!!
How do you do it (and I don't mean 'it' )? How do you 'stay the course'? Do you slip up occasionally? Does it make Mr. NOP upset or nervous? How do you get back on course, and does Mr. NOP remind you?
Thank you for taking the time to help... my H would thank you too!
Quote: The process is very hard, I certainly won't deny that, and it has many ups and downs to it, can't deny that either. But for me, I can't look to others to motivate me, I have to look within myself for that motivation.
GEL,
You misunderstand what I'm saying. I am trying to look within myself for my motivation, but I am hoping to find evidence of others' success to use as that motivation. So shoot me, I'm a logical, empirical guy.
I've been in "stuck", don'tgiveachit mode for the last several years, and trying to kick myself in the azz and get off the dime to start the long hard road back to the land of milk & honey and endless kisses. This board helps me in many ways -- advice, friendship, humor, or even just to get a rant off my chest. But one of the things I was hoping it would provide for me was a sort of diary of others in my situation's successes, so that I could use them as motivation to begin the hard work I need to do to repair my marriage. I just keep seeing the ones who tried the damnedest, and the ones whose wives' sound the most like my own , having no success.
Quote: One book I'm reading called Real Love says that nothing you do will change your partner until they are ready to change ON THEIR OWN (we knew that), so you basically have three choices:
1) live with it (the behavior) and hate it 2) live with and like it 3) leave.
That may be a little harsh, but I think it's fairly close. I see it as:
1) Live with it and quietly stew in resentment;
2) Live with it and deal -- continuously -- with the the spouse over it, with very little hope of success, that you can control, anyway.
3) Leave
There does, of course, seem to be a "2b" option that works, at least temporarily, and that's:
I don't misunderstand you, I was merely going off on my own little tangent. For me (and speaking only for me here) I find that when I start looking to others successes it starts shifting my focus on my R. I start seeing that some of the things people have tried, that have worked for them....don't work for me, and it brings me further down.
But...since you and CeMar have asked for some success stories...people have put some out there for you.
It's a sad but true fact, not all M's get through this successfully....some people simply never get it. But some spouses also don't keep trying to solve the problem until their S "gets it", they don't keep up the persistence, they don't GAL, or set boundaries/consequences they are willing to reinforce to get their S's attention. Sad but true (and I'm sure you don't fit this) some H/W's don't even really communicate the problem to the other person. It's amazing how many couples never talk about sex at all.
I'm going to continue this in your thread so I don't hijack this further...
Quote: Define "changes themselves for the better".
MrsNOP, I would define this as "the higher-desire spouse, rather than nagging, or being needy/grabby, or being grouchy/irritable, or even just moping in quiet resentment, instead embarks on a "GAL" program of hobbies, self-improvement, and finds their contentment and humor again. They add muscle, lose fat, engage in rewarding hobbies apart from the lower-desire spouse, while treating them with respect and compassion and being as good of a friend and a parent to their children as they can be. And they continue to speak to their lower-desire spouse in the love languages that they know they need, even though it's not leading to them speaking in yours."
That.
Show me where one spouse does THAT, and it leads to these "and the other spouse will (supposedly) have to change" stuff.
Cuz I just don't see it. And I really do want to see it!
Quote: I didn't have an epiphany. I was, at best, a very reluctant partner. We argued more in those 2 years than in the 25 that proceeded it. As those 2 years progressed, what NOP made clear was *this issue was not going to go away*.
That's precisely what depresses the hell out of me.
Quote: I think you must take into consideration that this forum is composed of what would be considered the hard-core cases. It is self-selected primarily by folks who have been in long-term relationships who haven't been able to reach a place of compromise. Most of us are at the other end of the bellcurve with some folks who have sex less than a dozen times a decade. Take that into consideration when trying to extrapolate a percentage of success. Those with less entrenched issues read, post a few times and head on into the sunset. It's like reading a forum for quadraplegics and wondering where all the marathon runners. are.
I think that's probably true, and a hysterical way to put it! But I'd also counter that these types of boards are probably also disproportionately made up of more-motivated, willing-to-work-on-it "fixers" than the average schmoe, too. How many out there could try as hard, as patiently or as lovingly as Tim47/49 or csw did?
Quote: What I see is this. Spouses with higher drives who want their lower drive spouses to push past their own comfort zone and participate sexually and sensually with the HD spouse.
When you are lower drive, being lower drive can very much be a part of your core personality. So, like it or not, you are asking your spouse to alter something they perceive as *being* themself.
I can't speak for everyone else, for speaking for myself (and for CeMar's sitch, which started this whole latest back-and-forth), I'm not looking for a "natural-born" LD to come out of her shell. I'm looking for a woman who was always HD (more than me, actually), to come back to me. I know she's in there, so I really don't feel like I'm asking her to be something that she's not, kwim? But I do, more broadly, understand your point here.
I don't think he would leave, he really doesn't 'complain' much... outloud... to me... verbally! I notice him getting 'short' with everyone, and I guess this is how he shows he is 'frustrated' with things. But no, I wouldn't want to face that before I made a change.
I'm just wondering how you make the decision STICK? How do you keep on 'doing it' in the long run and not fall back into your regular old patterns. I realize I have to make a committment, but staying the course seems to be a big hurdle. I don't think H is going to 'lovingly' remind me!!!
How do you do it (and I don't mean 'it' )? How do you 'stay the course'? Do you slip up occasionally? Does it make Mr. NOP upset or nervous? How do you get back on course, and does Mr. NOP remind you?
Thank you for taking the time to help... my H would thank you too!
Jen, whether or not he is complaining out loud, you have got to realize that to live in sexual frustration for years leaves him so very vulnerable to any woman who offers any hint of sexual desire for him. There's a large fuzzy line between thinking you are trusting someone and actually just taking them for granted.
Until it becomes more automatic for you, you make it stick by setting up a schedule and making damn sure you follow through. I found that saying we'll do it Tuesday and Saturday was much more workable than saying we'll do it twice a week.
Part of your husband's frustration right now is NEVER knowing when he's going to get to make love with his wife. Unpredictability on something like this is a recipe for frustration and eventually disgust if not outright hatred.
He probably runs through a repertoire of things he thinks might work and that may have appeared to work in the past. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. There is an incredible amount of negative emotion that builds over time when you are stuck in situation with someone you love and you feel absolutely powerless to impact your situation.
Do you understand what I am saying?
Sometimes he puts his quarter in, pulls the slot and gets a couple of quarters back. Sometimes he puts his quarter in and the slot machine runs away from him. Sometimes he puts his quarter in and the slot machine gives him the jackpot.
That's all well and good and acceptable - when you are gambling. It sucks sewage bilge when you feel like the responses you get from your spouse are a constant crapshoot.
When we first did the we'll do it twice a week, I would put it off until there were only a couple of days left in the week. Still sucked for NOP because he still had to deal with the "when's it going to happen?" aspect. So, his frustration continued throughout the preceeding days. Once we got to the we'll do it this day and this day - *some* of the frustration was eliminated - well, except for his justified fear that I was going to crap out on the agreement, because he at least knew *when*.
You're right that he's not going to remind you, but you can rest assured that the disappointment, frustration and anger will continue to build when you choose not to honor your committment. When you fail to follow through, instead of pretending that the elephant didn't really just poo on your carpet, let him know that you know you failed him. And do something about it. I still on occasion have to deal with my attitudes - but I recognize that it is *my* responsibility to deal with my attitude. If he's done something that has contributed to it, then it is *my* responsibility to address it with him. If it's the result of my own thought process, then it is still my issue to address with my own self.
My relationship with my husband is something that needs to be protected, fed, guarded, supported, celebrated, emphasized, improved.
Think about it, what is so hard about dedicating a couple of hours a week to loving your husband?
)? How do you 'stay the course'? Do you slip up occasionally? Does it make Mr. NOP upset or nervous? How do you get back on course, and does Mr. NOP remind you? 