Tell me the truth. Has anyone here really experienced any long term success in dealing with an LD spouse, other than separation or divorce? From what I am reading some are getting short term success but I have yet to read any long term success stories.
I bet Michele is the one who could answer this best, since no doubt she has dealt with this in her practice many times. I would also like to hear some statistics about the percentages, although maybe that would be BAD news... how helpful would it be to know that only a small percentage of SSM really make it in the end?
Another thought: Many of us are in our middle years, having been married for a number of decades already. We might be less patient than those with young families, after all, "our clock is ticking".
I can tell you that in my case, W and I have been working on this issue for a VERY long time, and we're STILL working on it, and if you've read my posts, you know we're still VERY unhappy with the sitch. So we haven't even achieved SHORT-term success yet. Sorry if you find that depressing, but I'm somewhat more hopeful today than I was yesterday, if that means anything...
Great question. I have asked similar before. You will notice that on the success stories board, there is little if any success stories from the HD perspective. The only real success stories seem to always be told from the LD point of view, in effect, from a highly motivated point of view. Unless the LD spouse is EXTEREMLY committed to solving this issue, I would say it appears to be hopeless. As Dr. Harely said on his web site to a HD women, "Feel really fortunate that you have learned to love sex, half the women out there don't". In effect, it is a crapshoot when us guys get married. Half of us are going to marry women that are capable of being the women that we need them to be, and the other half are going to make our lives h#ll. The success of a marriage is directly related to the difference in desire for sex (according to Dr. Harley). Great marriages usually don't have any issues with sex.
But hey, I'm not going anywhere for a while, so I will continue to fight the odds and hope that a ND spouse can actually "CHANGE".
Quote: The success of a marriage is directly related to the difference in desire for sex (according to Dr. Harley). Great marriages usually don't have any issues with sex.
C'mon, CeMar... do you really believe this? No issues with sex? Isn't that kind of a tall order?
My immediate goal at the moment doesn't even have anything to do with sex, it has to do with fundamentally reconnecting with my wife. I believe that if I can do that, I may have a shot at having a LOT more sex than I've been having for at least the last 15 years. However, at this point, I'm pretty much assuming that W and I will be "different" in terms of desire for the rest of our lives, so we'll BOTH have to learn how to live with that, or we'll have to separate. At this point, the jury is VERY much out on which it'll be, but I'm DESPERATELY hoping we learn how to live with it. If we can, I'm betting we can have a GREAT marriage, but my definition of GREAT may be different from yours.
I feel like we've achieved long term success in having a relatively happy marriage, except for sex, which continues to be a nagging issue.
If I measure the success of our marriage purely in terms of sex, we're failing miserably. By most other barometers, I think we're doing very well indeed. The last time we had sex, things were still pretty rocky, and I hope that if we ever get around to trying it again things might go better on the sexual front. But they may not.
I'm not willing to divorce over just the issue of sex, and this is frustrating enough that I really want to hope that sex will work out too. But if it doesn't, I still think our marriage is succeeding. As frustrating as sex is, it's important to not get bitter about it if I don't want it to poison the rest of our marriage.
Quote: You will notice that on the success stories board, there is little if any success stories from the HD perspective. The only real success stories seem to always be told from the LD point of view, in effect, from a highly motivated point of view.
I think you are basically saying that the LD has to move if anything is going to change. I suspect that any LD success story is also success story for some HD ;->
I have to agree with Tim. It sounds like Dr. Harley has been smoking the stupid weed and has become LD himself.
CeMar, You've been sounding pretty hopeless lately. But I'm not going to challenge the premise that there truly aren't any success stories without a motivated LD.
I hope I don't get flamed here but I still get the impression that the unmotivated spouse is not feeling any discord in the relationship despite all your efforts to remind her how messed up the marriage is. I'm really starting to think that a "shock and awe" campaign might be the way to do this. That to make things better, you might need to intentionally need to make things worse. It's a risky game but if you look at the divorcebusting success stories, there's tons of recovery from dramatic situations.
If an LD spouse is just giving lip-service to the idea of improving the R, then they need to be challenged with the thought that love is not unconditional. I think most of us have been too accommodating to our ULDW (unmotivated low-desire) spouse and have provided enough LL to keep them partially fueled. Why are we so scared to put the relationship on the line? Maybe it takes creating "pain parity" before we can create "pleasure parity". The more I read these posts, the more it sounds like there is NO answer from a mainstream author or therapist. Can you imagine the professional risk they would incur if they started telling people to "shake things up". I almost want to go into the divorce forums and post a question if anyone's relationship has improved because of separation or even an affair. The one thing I have to remember too is that everyone here is not satisfied with something. Otherwise they wouldn't be here.
Regarding your book references (forgive me for sounding like I'm attacking but we all do these things too) Every therapist presents very "sound" and conservative advice. Just look at SSM and how many times she says how "different" people are and that there are no guarantees. It's good to read and get some new insights but the advice and exercising makes the recovery process clinical. The reality is that a therapist would be more likely to put themselves on the line than an author...but not by much.
Actually, I would like to see a scorecard from all therapists and authors. My breakthroughs came from talking with others in the forums. SSM helped me explain my feelings to W and provided some insights, but I see you quoting a lot of authors and possibly giving them too much credit and/or wanting to use their "credibility" to make a point to your W. Actually a lot of us do this and I was going down this path too until my W absolutely vetoed the "self-help" route. Thankfully, we have quickly discovered a different language than the ones advocated by these therapists. If you go to the book store and look at the "sex" books from people like Laura Corn, they all basically repeat the premise of SSM but then proposes more specific upbeat ideas.
Again, I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking but I think you and a lot of us need to open our minds to some ideas that might not be advocated by these authors.
- D
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Nobody here (right now) will post a success story because this is the last place you would hang out if your marriage was fulfilling. I'm experiencing some hope right now and my instinct is to leave this board.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Welcome AtlantaDave, Two years ago I had a brief affair with an HD woman who could really play my LLs and I became besotted with her. So much so that I told my W and Ks that I was going to leave them. I did not actually want to leave but I was so messed up with my SSM I wandered blindly into telling them. You would think that would be a wake up call to my dear LDW and she would either compete for me or kick me out. The only behavioural difference was that she would not let me sleep in our bed for about a week and she gathered together some old crockery for me if I chose to leave. So don't expect a "shock and awe" campaign to necessarily make much difference. SD
AtlataDave, You should not leave this board because at times you will need to vent and we are here to soak it up and sympathise. If you vent to your W (as I do regularly though less often since joining this forum) you take a giant leap backwards. Controlling anger and frustration (I am 22 years into my SSM) is difficult for me and being able to vent here is a life saver. If you are the sort (like me and hairdog) that has sleepless nights constructing complicated monlogues in your head then write them here and get some sleep instead. SD
