T47, D36, Whatever you do keep it simple. Any list you present to W should not have more than 1 item. More than that dilutes the message and gives them something else to negotiate over. I think what I actually said to her was. "Lets do it every Friday night for a couple of months as a trial. What harm can it possibly do?" and to my amazement she agreed. But really what else could she say because it can't do her any harm. SD
Quote: "Hold the Remote" was a metaphor for the fact that she's controlling this entire process.
LOL! Actually, ROTFLMAO! Misunderstandings can be so FUNNY sometimes! Sorry!
Quote: ...I get interests that I "burn" on for a period of time, then drop. This type of behavior has worked great at work and in sports...
Whoa, D36, you're scaring me. That describes me EXACTLY. I have ALWAYS described myself as a mess of conflicting interests - my interests are ridiculously wide-ranging. Yes, I, too have a history of latching onto the "flavor of the month", spending ALL my time avidly pursuing it for a month or two, or six, only to latch onto another interest and drop the first cold, pursuing the next one, until another one comes along...
My interests include (but are not limited to) Music (playing, listening to, writing), Art, Business, Molecular Physics, Recombinant DNA, Brewing/Winemaking, Woodworking, Instrument making, Fiction, Historical Non-Fiction, Biographies, Literature, Writing, Aeromodeling, Cosmology, Plasma Physics, Electronics...
About the only ones I've done for any length of time are Music (since childhood) and aeromodeling (past 3 years), and even within them, I'll go for long periods of time without doing either of them. From my perspective, it's just that I have so many interests, and I get so intense about each one, that I really only have time for one or two at a time, and I don't really DROP most of them, but I could see how it'd look that way from the outside.
Quote: Unfortunately, I've let her wedge her daily activities into our time together to the point that I get about 5 minutes of a tired, burned out carcass of a woman at the very end of the day.
Note the bolded words. I, too, have spent some time recently examining my own contributions to my sitch, like how I've remained quiet for such long periods of time, which may allow her to feel like things are fine, or it might cause her to wonder if I'm p'ed off at her. From my point of view, I was being pro-active in recognizing that the "planets weren't lined up correctly" to allow for ML, so I "thoughtfully" didn't bring it up, but I've been wrong about a LOT of other things, so maybe I just largely did this to myself. I don't really believe that's strictly the case, but I can't help thinking that if I'd been more persistent more of the time, things might have been sorted out long ago (one way or another).
Quote: ...she said she hates to do in the morning because she feels "unclean" and that her shower and cleanliness then makes her want to start the day.
Same sitch here. In our last round of C, she said how she often wakes up during the night, and since she's usually too tired for LM at bedtime, C asked her if she'd consider waking me up (and I said I would be RIGHT ON BOARD with that!!), but she gave the same answer - too dirty, bad breath, etc. No willingness to even consider simple remedies to those probs...
SD - I hear you. My first "list" will be real simple - get a C and start having conversations with me about what next. At this point, "just do it" is not an option, as she's totally non-responsive physically - I think we'll have to deal with that first. She said the other day that she even tried masturbating in the shower, and got a headache from the effort. I think she has MANY problems here... lack of sex for so many years has her out of practice to the point she doesn't even know her own body anymore, or how it responds, plus her mental attitude about sex may have progressed to the point where she can't even allow herself to feel sexy at all. Plus now the panic of performance anxiety - I can just imagine how I'd feel if I found I couldn't get it up no matter what!
Note to All, Having a Apple PowerBook and a wireless network in the house is great. These machines can sleep instantly, then wake up completely, back on the network by the time you flip the lid back up. There's absolutely no hesitation between getting a thought down or researching an interest when your laptop is as convenient as a magazine. (yes, it goes in the bathroom with me). Ok, I can't guarantee that I wont plug these machines again sometime, but I see why Macs have such a cult following...they really are like owning an expensive BMW because of the "tight fit and finish" inside and out.
So, I'm struggling to cheer myself up. I did some work today that was lingering and it felt good to complete. I think a lot of my stress is being compounded with other things in my life included another freakin' trip to DC and Philly all next week only to come home to a wife whose out of town. I told W that I was stressin' about the fact that I wouldn't see her for so long. Her reply was "just think of the bright side...you like anticipation". Very funny. She was just trying to be funny but this is the second time she's made a joke about something that was talked about in seriousness. I just told her I liked anticipation a few hours before...not 7 days and let the joke roll. Boy, journaling is tough. It makes you "replay" things and you end up seeing that some things you used to laugh about actually sting.
I assume that either tonight or tomorrow night before my trip, we'll get some LM in. I really need to cheer up and let this "down" thing pass. I'm finding myself being a little bitchy with W.
This might work....Enforce the schedule but progressively become more "bitchy" right up to the point we do it, then really act chilled out and like a great H for a few days. It's positive reinforcement, but I'm certain my desirability would be pretty low if I got bitchy. Scratch that idea. Actually wait....
How do we create some excessively "positive" reinforcements for ML? Gifts would seem overt and tacky. There's not much more to work with with W. Hmmm. Maybe positive reinforcement for her is that she does have to do it the next day. sigh. Actually, my general demeanor has probably hurt our sex life. Being cheerful all the time doesn't give you the opportunity to be "really cheerful". Someting to think about.
The similarity between you, me, D36 and also hairdog and CeMar is uncanny. Your list of interests is so similar to mine including the cosmology, instrument making/playing, aeromodelling. I bet your blood group is O negative too. If all us HD guys are so similar perhaps there is a genetic reason why we go for LDWs (or do we make them LD with our "boring" hobbies?). Maybe we are genetically predisposed to seek answers to our problems and found our way to this forum because of it. SD
Quote: Maybe we are genetically predisposed to seek answers to our problems and found our way to this forum because of it.
Amazingly enough, I found my way here because of W. She's the one who found the book, and showed me the article about it, and said she thought it might be a good one to get...
Let me also make some general guesses about the HD gang.....
Do we all.....? * Prefer soft, comfortable, usually monochromatic (vs plaid etc) clothing * Have a very sensitive sense of smells, tastes, or sounds * Ability to focus intensely on a task * Occasionally have difficulty reading subtle, non-verbal cues? * Have at least 1 exceptional skill * Have a fairly robust vocabulary (I think we all do)
SAT PM: No Nookie...BUT I'M VERY EXCITED!!!!! I achieved something I don't think I have ever done in my life. I was able to contain my, anger, resentment, and rejection for an entire 3 days. (note: until 2 months ago I never felt this way so I never had this issue of containment). I completely faked it as best as I could...she saw "somthing" and it made her nervous because she was completely afraid she was going to a trigger a "talk".
Leaving her on the sofa last night...she thought I was totally pissed (which I was) but I just told her that she looked so comfortable on the (brand new) sofa, that I didn't want to disturb her and that it was sort of a joke. Guess what guys? You can bullsh!t the wives too and do a bad job of it. They will fool themselves into believing you! Just like we fool ourselves into thinking they are really into sex while having sex. I call this "strip club syndrom"...you logically know that the girls are completely after your money and that their sensual moves are to seduce the green faces in your wallet...not you but you pretend they do (actually I don't because I'm a cheap bastard and love money more than they do). Sorry, I'm rambling. I keep thinking that I'm going to invent enough colorful expressions here to write a book someday.
Anyway, W crashed in the middle of the movie tonight. She made a big point to try to kiss, rub etc. I know it's because she feels guilty and off-balance due to my "subtle" behavior the last few days. What's funny is that I forced myself to not get drawn in by it. I took the kisses like a pro...ie. someone who was completely disconnected from the person. But why is everything all or nothing to me? Hmmm....maybe I could work on "sort of enjoying".
I'm sure this is bad practice...maybe this is how she got into the state she's in. Years of "obliging" to someone who she thought wasn't meeting her expectations, but was not bad enough to leave. Maybe this is passive aggressive. I got great pleasure in cleaning the toothpaste crust off of my toothbrush with hers today. Oh man, swallowing the agitation...not sure if this is good but I can absolutely guarantee that tonight was more "loving" than it would have been had I addressed anything in the past few days.
My new plan is to "back-off" a little. Not constantly be in her face about relationship stuff. D6 was watching a cartoon today of a married hippo couple. At the end my W asked D6 about the moral of the story which she said had to do with the fact that "winning isn't everything unless you are having fun". I bit my tongue to avoid telling her that the actual moral of the story was the fact that their marriage works because they do recreation together. See marriagebuilders.com
So this is the way to do it now. She knows my needs (once on the weekends and once during the week). I know hers (don't be irritating and to pick up after myself). I know that's too simplistic and there are lot more dynamics going on. At any rate, another week out of town will be very helpful.
Another thing I just thought of is that we all seem to have this goal of "staying married". I don't just mean now, but from day 1. Something in our morals and ethics said that this is THE GOAL come "hell or high water". It definitely affects our behavior because we would have otherwise made a huge stink the first time W "fell asleep" on the anniversary. We don't want to rock the boat. What will really suck and force us to go to therapy if any of us get a D is that we will feel like complete idiots for not making a stink immediately. We spent years suffering, taking the "hits" and the rejection to preserve the peace and the result is still the same. I feel fortunate that I'm only 10 years into our M and 35. My time investment seems insignificant now.
Now, my defense mechanism to deal with the rejection seems to be that I'm magnifying the traits I don't like about W. Her constant tiredness, her "homebody", non-athletic, non-goal-oriented character. Tonight she said "you're the one". I'm thinking "that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard." Does she not realize that right now, I'm choosing her? Does she not get that I'm currently faking it to get the "love energy" back in the marriage. Does she really think that my calling her my "girlfriend" is just a cute "role-play" thing I'm doing it to make our R sound exciting? Excuse me Mrs. Dave36, I'M CALLING YOU MY GIRLFRIEND BECAUSE AT THIS POINT, THE RELATIONSHIP IS PROVISIONAL. Sorry if this sounds totally harsh. The fact that we have a daughter really screws this up, but I will say this too....thank goodness we didn't have another one. Want to know the formula for male birth-control? Mountain Bike for over 2 hours x 2 times a week. The bumpier, the better. Then masturbate on the days you don't ride. We tried to have another (which I was never really excited about). Note: Another reason I should start riding again is that it really does kill the libido some.
Actually, we were having a very sweet, romantic moment when I first called her "girlfriend". I also told her to call me her "boyfriend". Her response was "I like the sound of husband better". Do you see where this is going? The idea of a "boyfriend" implies "fun, spontaneity, passion, euphoria, and of course sex". The idea of "husband"? Well, I think you get my point. This exercise is an attempt to get her to see the R in a new way and break out of the habits. If we have a big setback, I should take her wedding ring and mine and put them in a secret hiding place and truly declare ourselves as a couple that need to prove themselves to one another. After I get comfortable with the R, I will propose to her again and we will get married again. This way it's not as dramatic (or venomous) as a separation. It implies that I'm committed to the idea of courting and re-proving myself to her as a worthy partner. A dangerous game...I bet the therapists and LD wives are going to kick my ass for this idea. Once again, I'm just rambling a bunch of BS.
I like comfortable clothes, warm thick socks, hankerchiefs, and I try not to wear more that three colors. I prefer simple color schemes and I am a little partial to black & white combos. I go for a small print not too bright or busy. I have a lousy sense of smell. I can focus so hard that I miss the fire alarm. It was a good book and at the "good" part. I can miss a whole town when I am traveling to a new place so subtle can get by me easy. I got at least one exceptional skill. Great vocab. lousy speller but getting better. Posting will improve both your typing and spelling.
Yo, Dave, chill, man! I really think you need to get some anger management C or something, you sound like you're about to blow a gasket. You also sound like you're building walls around your heart, and that's not good. Yes, it might help keep you from getting hurt, but it'll also pretty much doom any real progress in your R.
Quote: I got great pleasure in cleaning the toothpaste crust off of my toothbrush with hers today.
Is that for real? That's what I'm talking about. Sounds almost like "abuse by proxy" or something. Scary stuff..
Quote: What's funny is that I forced myself to not get drawn in by it. I took the kisses like a pro...ie. someone who was completely disconnected from the person. <snip> I'm sure this is bad practice...maybe this is how she got into the state she's in.
Yes, I would say it's bad practice! Buddy, you've gotta get a grip, or you're gonna blow it. Seriously... re-think things, get some C, chillchillchillchill...
