Bets, I like the direction that you are taking, the deadline felt wrong for some reason, this is better, it is almost like my sitch but not so extreme.
In this way you are being honest with MR.W about where you are right now. The boundries that are in place in my sitch have given me a great sense of security.
He is not going to return at any time soon if he thinks that you will be waiting for him forever.
It also reminds me of Trips sitch, I have found that we DB'ers put alot of pressure on ourselves which our spouses seem to sense. We need to realize that we are not doing anything wrong by trying to save the marriage.
Once in a while the pressure needs to shift to the WAS, let them stew on things for awhile. They are the ones walking away. Like my Dad says "she started the avalanche, yet she gets mad everytime you start to dig yourself out!"
My only advice is to be firm but gentle.
I have often asked W ..." why did your quest for independance and confidence have to come at the expense at the people who love her most?"
We dont want to be guilty of the same things that our WAS's did.
Other than that I think you are doing the right thing.
always Mike
BTW MrW is making a big mistake, you are a very special lady!
I agree with your posture. You have to know when it is time for you to do this. If it seems that time is now, then it is now. Part of the whole DRing process is regaining confidence in yourself and feeling and control of yourself for yourself. These are clearly boundaries you have set for yourself to be happy, not that LBS are selfish, but that there has been so much effort on LBS side that it can get one sided for too long.
I do think as long as you are doing this for yourself, you will be happy no matter the outcome. If the peripheral effect is that it wakes Mr.W out of his comfort zone and he chooses to work on the M, thats great. The tough love thing is really tough. However, I do think this whole thing is a PROCESS. Once the WAS is used to all the things going their way and they are in their comfort zone and they EXPECT these things, it makes it much harder for them to leave when given the tough love ultimatum. Like someone that needs their morning cup of coffee, when its not there, they freak out.
Do it for yourself if you feel that is what you want to do. Accept the consequenses of either direction and you will be happy with your decision. Sounds like you're detached to me.
Betsey, I have also made a small change in my sitch too... I do think MW needs to miss you all and needs to reap the benefits of what he has sown... let him miss you all. Let him feel what it is like to not be an "insider" at your home. I definitely agree with him calling, and I would ask for his key. He should not be able to act like he lives there.
Don't know about the legal separation thing... you will have to decide on this. I might make the change of boundaries first, then follow up with the legal separation after you monitor results. Kind of a one-two punch.
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Just wanted to catch everyone up before I call it a night. The girls are watching a movie (Looney Toons in Action) and I have a few minutes before tending to the dishes.
I know Mer was having an insanely busy day like me... I had asked her to post the summary of an e-mail that she sent me after she posted here.
She was wise enough to encapsulate all the progress that Mr. Wonderful is making to get himself out of his MLC fog--things that I had not considered before my post this morning:
His friendliness, his concern for my hairy personal sitch, his Bob like demeanor, and his willingness to listen of late.
Before I go on, I will have to match Hud by saying that Mr. W. phoned me 7 times today... the last 2 were the same convo. He forgot he had told me something (he was in his car for the final call). True, he's been a ditz for the past year, but he was bubbly for all the calls.
One of them I told Triple J about in a chat. Most of the convos had to do with the golf tournament (the reason he called), but he wanted to segue into more personal chit chat every time.
The most enlightening convo with him went like this:
MW: "I'm really afraid of not getting all this work done now. I realize that I haven't done nearly enough calling around, and I don't want to lose money for the foundation. This tournament is going to cost a whole lot to put on."
Me: Yes, last year's tourney required a cash outlay of nearly $18K. I don't want that to happen either. "I understand."
MW: "I can't believe how much effort it takes to do this. Now I know why you were so stressed out about this so early in the process. I really don't want to screw this up."
Me: Softly. "K, do you know how hard it is not to take control of this? I've been doing this out of love for the past 4 years."
MW: Laughing. "Bets, please feel free to control me here."
Me: Sober as a church mouse and quiet still. "I won't do that. No matter how much I feel I want to. The fact is that this is good for all of us. I really don't have the time and energy to devote to this, and I trust you. I really do. I have faith that you will pull this off successfully." Don't look. I'm cringing at the thought of anything else.
MW: "I'm glad one of us is confident in me. I'm not so sure. What if I lose money? We won't have any money in the coffers to help little kids?"
Me: "Mr. W., you're not going to let that outcome happen. I have faith in you." And then I changed the subject, because my stomach hurt too much from thinking about financial losses.
Okay, the last time I was wary about the amount of phone calls he made to me, I got the announcement that he was moving into a bigger apartment. And now I'm very wary of this turn in events.
He's been calling me quite a bit (bar Sunday afternoon after the BBQ). Before that and after. He's acted like Bob a few times, and all the other times he's been upbeat.
His last call to me I let him know that his dad sent bday cards to the girls with money in them. And he apologized for being late. He commented, "Well, he's still grumpy. And he didn't send ME a fricking birthday card."
I said, "K, you know what? He managed to get out of his grief and sadness to do something nice for the girls. That is a huge step. I appreciate it, and so did D10. She said he rocked."
He said, "She actually said that? You know what? You're right. I'll cut him some slack."
WTF????? Since when did I become a champion for his parents? I think I've been possessed by an alien myself. Tee hee... maybe I'm making some headway in the forgiveness area?
So, my trusty BB and IM buddy (Triple J) suggested yesterday that it is time for me to study and work on Step 3.
Meredith, I think this is what you were eluding to in your post: being caught between M and D and what outcome do I want?
Well, even though I wonder if I'm a complete buffoon for wanting such an emotionally crippled man, I look at my daughters and know that I want to be married to the stooge. Or at least to give it 100% of my effort.
IF I were inclined to address Step 3 with him (Ask for what I want), I could get 2 outcomes: he could agree to things or he could tell me flat out he's ready to file.
Past history has me scared as Janet Leigh in a shower. This tells me I'M not ready.
What's the answer? I will be soon. So I will agree to be patient for awhile longer until I can get some bonafide signs of his receptiveness to a R talk or until I just can't stand to be in limbo for another minute.
I'm not worried about doing anything rash. My overnight rule has really served me well. And doggone if I can't describe myself as a patient person now. As an Aries woman, we aren't known for our patience. I've now moved outside the box in regards to that adjective, and I think it's pretty amazing. GO ME!
On the other hand, I'm seriously thinking of getting a button made prior to my trip home. One that says, "Hi, my name is Betsey. Don't ask about K." (sort of like those name tags that say "Hi, I'm Mary, ask me about Herbalife."
So when they ask, I can just point to the button!
So yes, Mer, I'm looking to shake him up--hanging out in his comfort zone is no longer good for me, him, the girls or us. He's been hanging out there for quite some time now.
I guess I could always buy a cattle prod. Deb, Pattie or Zoo--have one you could lend me?
Triple J, after I am on the maintenance phase of my new eating lifestyle, you and I are going to go out and have some serious beers. I owe you big!
Hugs to all.
Bets
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Yes, I do find myself doing some soul searching... and I see you doing the same. I do think we are in the same boat, or school of fish or whatever they call it... I do wonder if our H's have gotten VERY comfortable... of course, I really don't see any comfort as far as my H is concerned.
Maybe you should not include H... not in future plans, not in what's going on with the kids... not the details, only the big chunks... I think it is just MORE detaching, in a bigger way. It does help me to keep my distance... be a friend, that's it.
I care about you, too, Betsey... and I do see changes happening in your sitch. MW is inching along (see Leftandnowhy's thread for an explanation) be it maddeningly slow. Maybe if you can turn up the uncomfort level... let him swim around alone for a bit... see how he likes those waters.
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
I'm thinking about the discomfort thing. It's tricky. If I don't do it right, D10 will notice and think I'm being mean, and then it will all backfire on me.
But I'm thinking.
You have Vernetta, I have Laurie--I'll ask her about this when she gets back from vacation. Good point.
Back to my diet of--UGH--patience. It is SO bland, so why is it so good for us?
TTFN!
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Good morning sunshine. Changing the routines is a very difficult prospect. We don't want them to think we're just being mean and vindictive, but we also want them to understand what they are actually contemplating.
I think you know what I mean even though the words don't come out so well. Look for a Playa in your neck of the woods these days. He's actually hitting a lot of different places turns out. Breck, Copper Mtn, Vail and one other I don't remember.
Psycho me thinks that it will be harder for him to hook up with hoochies if he's not in the same place each day
I think you have a good plan and I think it's even better to bounce this off a Laurie when she returns--which is only a week. I sincerely wish I could put myself in MW's shoes and give you some good man advice, but he's as alien to me as my W. So I hope you'll accept a cliche that you know best what is your tolerance level, how you would handle the proposed move, and how to cast them in the most positve light for your Ds.
On the lighter side, I will be in Denver the last weekend of July--so I'll need some good local advice on where to head. KOFTGF.
