Hi everyone, I’m familiar with a lot of the names around here. Few of you may recognize me, most probably wont. I’ve not posted since May of 2003! When I did I hung out in Newcomers even after my H and I started Piecing. The piecing category wasn’t so active back then, it was just starting to be. I have however lurked around on a fairly regular basis, keeping up with a few threads and reading some new people as well. This site is such a great source of information and insight. I just didn’t post as things were getting a bit more comfortable in my situation as well as life getting busy, so I just faded away from the posting. Now I have things I just need to get off my chest. It will be long winded, as I usally am. Sorry.
Quick recap? I don’t know if I can do it quickly. Let’s see H had a EA turned PA with is Volleyball partner. Intuition told me so but I didn’t find out for sure until March 2002,. 9 mos into the EA, 6 months into the PA. I had hard proof. I taped telephone conversations. (Yep, intuition was strong and I finally gave into it.) You can read the first post of my last thread for more recap of the history. It's titled A new focus.......ME
So after doing all the wrong things, I found this site in June 2002 and it helped immensely! I’m so grateful for it and all the wonderful people on it. So the rest of 2002 was hell, and quite a battle, the first couple months after finding out I was sick all the time, couldn’t keep food down or in my body for long, I lost 10 pounds on my already small 5’2 frame, worrying all the time whether or not we could make it through this. I would never ever want to re-live those days again.
Although H agreed to stop the relationship, he refused to cut all contact with OW due to her being his sport partner and mutual friend to his whole circle of friends. That was really hard to swallow for me. Thankfully Zebra a poster here was a very similar situation with his W and was able to coach me through it. I went on with my life and tried my best not to beg and plead and badger H about contact with OW. Of course I had setbacks and I did, because it was the hardest thing to do EVER. H continued to play co-ed with OW, but it did get less and less. For a while he did not want me at the tournaments, finally he asked me to go, I went and then OW stood him up. Guess she didn’t want to be around me. By the next time he asked me to go May 2003 I decided I wouldn’t go. I felt it was condoning it and I didn’t want to do that. That time the tournament canceled so it was not an issue. Then H was having shoulder problems and although there were a couple tournaments he planned to play in with the OW, they never panned out. BTW- OW got herself a boyfriend sometime in Oct-Dec of 2002.
Anyway finally OW was like a non-issue, H never played with her and I stopped worrying about her. I felt confidant that their R was over and would not ever revive. H and I never ended up at any of the same social events as OW although we have many mutual friends (H and OW’ R was never reviled to all the friends, although my BIL told me many of them suspected it) . H had surgery on his shoulder in Sept, so he couldn’t play in the co-ed league that OW in the fall that he normally does. Basically she was never discussed again. H and I were doing pretty good, we still had some communication issues, but finally my confidence in him and his faithfulness to me and our R came back. It made things a lot better. H spent a lot more time with me and was involved with our 3 yr old S more.
So I felt confidant in bringing up the fact that I really do still want at least one more child and was ready soon, so in Oct 2003 I wrote H a letter about my feelings and asking him where he stood on the issue at this point. See, ever since S was about 3 mos. old H said he changed his mind and didn’t want anymore. (He had always said in the past he would have 2-4, definitely not only 1) I of course always wanted 2-3, so it used to be mutual. I also felt he was just saying that cause of the overwhelming changes when you have your fist, and figured it would change. But then after the A, another child was the furthest thing from my mind also. No way would I have another child not knowing if we would even stay together. And anytime anyone would ask if when were having the 2nd, H always said NEVER!
Well I still wasn’t sure how serious he was when he said that and I didn’t know if he knew how serious I was that I still did want another. Anyway, H never responded to me. I didn’t bring up until the beginning of Jan. 2004. I told him I had decided to go off Birth Control because I couldn’t see making the effort myself to prevent something that I wanted. He was not happy to hear that, made some sarcastic remarks and such. He did say he understood what I was saying, but he was NOT happy. Then I said, how would I know? You never even acknowledged my letter. He said “what am I supposed to say?” An I told him he should tell me what he thinks and where he stands, is he really serious about not wanting anymore children? He said he didn’t know. I pressed him for a bit, but he just wouldn’t say. He just kept saying, what do you want me to do? I told him he needs to figure it out soon, to really think about it and figure out if he would have another now, or later, but if later give me sometime of time frame, or if never. That I needed to know.
Well he has not discussed it since, however he will not do what it takes to get me pregnant, he hasn’t even attempted to with protection, we only have other types of encounters (and not many). So obviously right now he doesn’t want one/and obviously is still not sure.
Well along with this issue, which is a big one to me, there are other things as well, that have been bothering me. To point of where I’m actually 2nd guessing my decision to have gone through all I’ve gone through to stay in this marriage. Things that have always sort of been there, just like wondering if we are even compatible. All the differences between us. How even after everything we still don’t communicate effectively. We can’t discuss anything difficult. H always gets irritated so quick and shuts down. Before learning DB, I would always pursue him and harp on him and continue the discussion until it turned into a full blown fight. I still did during a lot of the first year after the bomb. But I haven’t in months. I make a concerted effort to stop and let H walk away from me. I also hardly ever would accept blame, I now make an effort to make sure I do, sometimes even when I don’t even feel at fault.
I just feel like I have changed and it hasn’t made much difference. H doesn’t even see my changes he still accuses me of never accepting blame and not backing down from a discussion. I have found myself thinking in the last month, should we even be together? I must be crazy to even want another child with him, maybe I better rethink this. And the whole other child thing is so upsetting to me. I LOVE being a mom and I NEVER wanted an only child, I was one until I was 16 and I hated it. Not only that I feel like H lied to me, he comes from a family of 4 and always said he would never want an only child. Now he changes his mind. And who makes the decision? How do you come to an agreement on that? I don’t see it happening. It depresses me and I feel resentful.
Then aside from all that and after the last month of me doubting everything H goes and does something I see as a HUGE baby step, and I’m SO happy about it, yet part of it is a disappoint and makes me feel were still not that far. I post that next, this is soooo long. Sorry if I’m boring you.
So on Wednesday I asked H if anything was going on for the Superbowl. He said that ****** invited us to her SuperBowl party…….(pause) but OW is going to be there. I about flipped, I couldn’t believe he was even telling me. H used to either NOT tell me that an event was happening if he knew OW was there, or if I knew about an event going on already and he knew she was going, he would not want to go. There was even once or twice, where he did want to go to something that was going on, but I think OW would have been there so he tried to not have me go, but it never worked out, cause I always would want to go. Basically he just didn’t want the drama of it. He didn’t want me to get all bent out of shape or whatever, and didn’t want to have to discuss OW.
So that was a definitely a step toward him being more open, and I think he was testing the waters. Well I have wanted to test the waters about OW for a LONG time, but as I said, it was just dropped. So I thought this would be a great opportunity. So in response I said “So, is that a problem?” H said “for you it is” I said “I didn’t say for me or ask for me, I’m asking if it is for you” H said “no, but for you it is” and he walked downstairs.
Well, I went down and said, “So how are things with you and OW” and he said “what do you mean” and I said “are you guys like friends or just mostly VB teammates?” H said “VB teammates” I asked “so what do you mean? Your just mostly teammates?” I guess the use of the word “mostly” made H think I was accusing him of more. He immediately put the wall up got mad and didn’t want to talk anymore. I tried defending myself that I wasn’t that I just wanted to feel things out and see, maybe it was possible I could attend an event she was at, but I was trying to feel out how things were with them. Anyway the more I talked the more upset he got, so instead of my old ways of pursing the discussion I went upstairs. So I don’t think we will be going.
So it was a good thing and bad. Good that he felt he could tell me she was going to be there, but bad that we can’t even discuss it. I don’t know I’m just so frustrated right now and feel so far away from H again. It’s driving me crazy and I hate having these doubts.
Anyway I guess I just had to get this all out, because there is no one I can really talk to about this. So I guess I feel a little better.
So glad to see so many people here in piecing. I know there can be success. I do think my H and I succeeded to make it through the A without a Divorce. I just sometimes wonder if we had a strong enough foundation to begin with to make it forever. I know I’m a better person and I have grown SOOO much through this experience and I ‘m thankful for that.
Hi, sorry to read you are discouraged about your m. But you are the right place for helpful advice! Of course, take mine with a grain of salt!
As for your situation, go get the book "Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands". Your h is telling you what he wants....he's simply saying it. You are disrespecting him by trying to change his mind or second guess him. Men usually say exactly what they mean...there is no hidden meaning or double talk about it.
I know it is hard to not get what you want but your h is shutting down because you continually put your needs above what he wants. Even after he tells you he doesn't want something you go on about how HE NEEDS TO DO IT because it is important to you. He probably feels as though he doesn't even count to you.
The only reason I say all this is that my situation is the same...I've come to the hard realization that I have not respected my h for a very long time. Not saying that you are all to blame here....but you have the power to change the situation if you change your way of thinking about h.
Sometimes backing off and acting ok with how he wants things will get him to give you what you want. A man is happy when he knows he can make his wife happy.
Get that book I mentioned. It will help you understand your h and what he is really saying.
I'm happy to see you back but sorry it's because you've hit some roadblocks...
Certainly the "2nd baby or not" question is biggie and I'd imagine it could present an issue even in m's that have been smooth sailing (ha! don't know too many of those!). I'm not sure I'm full of advice on that right now (I will be, eventually ) but just wanted to offer the support of saying "that's a toughie".
You mention still not feeling like you can talk about the big stuff with h. h and I are still learning every day about that and it's HARD! What I realized (and actually posted this AM!) was that the ability to talk intimately with h isn't JUST about the conversation itself...it's about all the little stuff...are we treating each other kindly in other situations? Are we spending enough time together? What was the aftermath of the last BIG BAD discussion, etc.
Finally...the thing about OW. I think you've done amazingly well in the continued presence of ow (arrgh!). I applaud your h for bringing her up to you (and I applaud you too because your hard work helped get him there!). I think if you reread your post you'll see how some of it may have seemed like "more of the same behavior" to h, right? Maybe use that conversation as a springboard to doing somethings differently next time? it's interesting to me that ow doesn't show up when she thinks you'll be there? What a tremendous way for her to show herself as unreliable, invalidating, etc. Why NOT use that to your advantage? Go where you and h want to go and let her REACT to that.
Have you reread DR lately? Or listened to the KLA tapes? I find that I sometimes need a refresher course. it may really make sense for you to start from step one...get that beginner's mind out...set some goals...etc.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Hi Laney, You don't knowme at all, I'm sure. I, too was on the BB early and mid summer and then have just checked in and followed some sitchs'...especially on "Piecing" the past 6 months. I started up again a few days ago.
After reading your sitch.....I totally agree with SAge in that you should re-read DR and listen to the KLA tapes. I just got the tapes this week, and I, too am re-starting with a beginners' mind. You might want to surprise H and agree to go to the SuperBowl party....just be your confident self....afterall your H stayed with YOU! Also...pressing him on his relationship with OW would push his buttons for sure. Stay away from that....just let him talk about her. The baby issue is tough. You may want to back off, take your birthcontrol pills...tell him so....and give it more time. You both need more healing. Have you and H gone to M counseling? Mine won't go....but he might someday. That could help with your communication and eventually work on your mutual family goals/future together. If he won't, what about you on your own. I am seeing a DB councelor, occaisionally do the phone coaching and finding it to be a tremendous help. Remember, "one can tango".
nice to hear from you. I have wondered how things were going for you.
Sounds as if h's shoulder issue was a blessing in disguise!
Now don't go beating your self up or letting that head of yours lead you into that negative thinking!!
the fact that h even mentioned the superbowl party to you is GREAT!!
so you missed the opportunity to match that with great dbing..but you can make up for it.
obviously the way it went didn't work out..you were placing your own meaning to his "it's a problem for you" tsk tsk! (omg I felt like an old lady saying that) there you could have let him know that it is not a problem for you (we know how ow operates laney, she probably would have split at the first sight of you or knowledge that you'd be attending).
options...
let it slide and make other plans...
ask h what time the party is at, do not mention ow, and if he brings it up be cool with it. "it's not a problem for me"
appologize for how things went express your appreciation for his letting you know that she'd be there and if you are ok with it (and I think it's ok to let him know that you may be a little uncomfortable so possibly discuss ways in wich he can reassure you through out the day, pic a gesture you can share to ease any tensions you may feel during the pty) and would be open to going.
ok now on to the second child thang.
Let it rest for a while, your still young and another year or two in between kids isn't all that un heard of. If you don't want to go back on the pills right now (and if there is a remote possibility that he may be more open to it sooner than later it would be wise to be off them for a while anyway as I've heard it can mess with ya and it would be better for your system to clean out first) but find another means of birth control that doesn't put it all on him there are plenty in the family planning isle.
oh and lastly....
don't forget to breath and relax...things are never as bad as they feel.
It's been a month since you posted this, so I don't know what has happened or taken place in the meantime. I would have answered sooner, but just happened to stumble on your thread here.
I had assumed since you hadn't posted in so long that the positive movement you had experienced in the spring had continued. I guess I was right!! Pretty much anyway.
You have gotten good advice. I can't add anything.
But if you read this, please post and let us know how you've weathered this bump in the road.
It was good to hear an update from you, Laney. I hope that you are back moving in a good and positive direction.
Okay, so I guess I’m a “poor” weather (as opposed to fair weather) poster? I guess it comes down to when I’m just beside myself and don’t have an outlet, no one to talk to I come here. I don’t blame anyone if they have nothing to say, since I’ve not replied to those who so kindly said hello and gave advice last time. I did read it all and had every intention of replying, there was good advice there. Things are just so busy at work which is when I most did my posting in the past. I guess too, I haven’t bee as all consumed by my marital problems as I was in those dark days. Forgive my lack of response and Thank you’s. I really do appreciate it and what you all said was very valuable.
Cindy F, Mooka - Nice to see new faces (names) especially in Piecing. Thank you for taking the time to respond.
Lostlove, Sage and Steve- It is so nice to see all of you guys! I’m glad to see familiar faces (names) Thank you so much. I promise to make my way to you soon and at least pop in.
I started really thinking about the 2nd baby thing and that maybe I was pushing too soon and I should wait, but didn’t really discuss it with H right then, I had my yearly exam coming up in March and figured I would get my pills refilled then and tell H about it. That gave a couple months for just in case by some miracle that he might change his mind. I had my appointment today befor the email from H and got my new pill prescription. I’m definitily taking it!
I also did have a chance to discuss OW not being a problem for me. My VB girl friend mentioned that there was going to be a group dinner and we should go. I told H and he said, “no OW is the one arranged that gathering.” Understandable, I wouldn’t go if it was her gig. But that night when we were laying in bed I told him that I wanted him to know it that it is not an issue to me if OW is at a social gathering and we don’t have to miss it because of her, that I can be where she is. H didn’t say anything.
Well one thing I didn’t mention in my 1st posts is that H started back into his co-ed league with OW in January, It’s a team with 2 girls 2 guys that play one night a week, WED. It didn’t bother me that much, I didn’t say ONE word to H about it, because I did trust him more and OW wasn’t such a big deal to me anymore. Well then there was a co-ed Friday night tournament with those four, again I didn’t say anything.
H has been getting back into VB heavily , he wants to get better from the shoulder surgery and be able to play well this summer, so he has been playing on Tue night pick-up (likely that OW is there, that is the one she used to go to, but H has never mentioned it) Wed night co-ed league and some Thursday nights for pick-up, (OW not at this one) Also a couple Saturdays for his men sixes team. I have mentioned that it is a lot sometimes and I need some nights too. H normally does not like to hear this gets a little defensive. H also just played in a doubles Friday night tournament with OW as a partner on the 12th. BTW he just sent me an email earlier in that week saying he wanted to play and hoped it didn’t interfere with plans. I said no it didn’t interfere with anything, hoping he was playing with this other girl he played with before, but feeling it was probably OW. On Friday I asked who his partner was. OW he said. He did not volunteer the info I had to ask. OH, I again said nothing. It just doesn’t even matter because it would just be an fight, he would be so pissed that I would have a problem with it. SO, no opposition from me. The next day, nothing said about the tourn, whether he won or not, nothing. I know I should say more to H, but really we CAN”T talk, and H won’t talk. Like when I told him OW wasn’t a problem, it was like I said it to a brick wall, he said nothing, there was no conversation. It drives me crazy!
Okay throw in here that one night in early Feb, after we ML H said ILY and sent roses on V-day w/a note that says ILY. Unusual, H rarely says that anymore, since the bomb 2years ago now. Those kinda helped me get through the other stuff too. But there is other tension, finance stuff, and the baby stuff and all the VB playing and H working more too. Oh yea, H going to the gym and dieting again too during lunch to get in shape for VB, I have been also as he inspired me. (not the same gym)
Well, today I sent an email asking if it was finals for his league tonight, what time, and if he was playing in it the next session.
This is what he sent:
Quote: Laney,
Tonight is finals at ****. My game is as soon as the B finals is over. B finals is scheduled for 7PM and it's best of 5. So if it's 3 games, it will probably start around the scheduled time of 8PM. If it's 5 games it could go longer. I want to come home first, but I brought clothes just in case. I am super busy at work right now. I have two projects that I'm in the middle of that are giving me headaches. My preference is not to have to stay late...but if that is what I have to do...then what can I tell you?
As far as upcoming volleyball goes, I plan on playing the next session at ********. I'm not sure when next session starts but typically there is a week or two in between sessions. I also am going to play in the ***** Reverse Co-ed league. It will be on Monday nights and it starts in about 2-3 weeks. Those will be my "regular" volleyball nights, but I would like to be able to play here and there when schedules permit. Notice that I have listened to your hints that I'm just playing volleyball all the time.
And since I already know your next question, yes...OW is on the Reverse Co-ed Team. The others are girl, girl, guy and guy. I'm not playing because of OW, but because it's an opportunity to play in the league. Just like ******, I will not go out afterwards if OW is there. I have been very respectful of that and I will be upset if that is an issue. With that said...if we win tonight...I will probably go out to celebrate.
Once summer comes, I'm probably going to play in a league with Guy at the sand courts. I've sent an email to ***** asking her if I coordinated the league night with her if I could stay a little later and play doubles after. I'm waiting to hear back from her. I'm not sure what night that will be...or if she will even agree with that.
I hope that answers everything.
H
I can’t tell you how upset I am. Am I just crazy or does it come across as condescending? First I feel like he is telling me OW is playing only because I would insist to know, not out of respect that he should. Also it bugs me that he just already decided he is doing this like it or not, no asking me my feelings. So now H is going to see and play with OW 2 nights a week on a regular basis and he will be upset if that is an issuer to me ??? What the HELL is that?? I just want to say who the hell do you think you are? The other thing that bothers me is he doesn’t even like REVERSE co-ed (its where the guys can only hit from the back row) But he says it’s for the opportunity to play in the league???? I did not reply. I couldn’t because I probably would have just been nasty. I actually did learn something the last couple years. He did not come home first tonight from work, he went straight to the league, (which has been the norm on his Wed night co-ed league night BTW) Also he said in one breath that he doesn’t go out after if OW is there, but if they win tonight he will probably go celebrate and you mean to tell me OW won’t go if they win the season??
Let me tell you my mind it going nuts right now and everything in my gut feels bad, red flags to me. You know when h was having the A he gave me the sweetest romantic cards and ILY’s and a V-day gift. You know he went to the gym and dieted, you know he played VB a lot and where OW was involved. Things that make you go HMMMMMMMM. I just feel like I'm getting ready to live in my past. I don't want to go there.
So is my H getting involved with her again? Part of me says no, part says yes. I’m just going crazy in my mind and I don’t know how to handle this. I don’t know what to say to H about that email. I mean do you see how he “warned” me I better not have an issue with this??? So obviously he does not want to discuss it. I am at a loss. I’m pissed, I’m hurt, I’m worried. Part of me truly just wants to bag it. Just say forget it. I mean we don’t even want the same things in life. Am I over-reacting? My mind is swimming. I have truly thought how I should just say we should just get a divorce and then have been thinking how I will do it alone with my S, where could I live, could I afford it? That’s how negative I feel right now. I want to WALK AWAY! Crazy.
I don't know what to tell you...but somethings gotta change.
For now just breath and keep your chin up. The pieces will fall where they may and you know how to pick them up.
Can I ask what is his purpose in investing so much of himself into vb? does he get paid to do it? is it leading to a career? well that line of thinking has suddenly got me on a neg train so I'll stop.
I honestly don't get your h Laney...what is he all about?
No, my H doesn't get "paid" so to speak to play VB. Especially in the leauges, they are just for fun. But in the Summer when they have Doubles in the grass or the sand they typically win money if they get 1st, sometimes 2nd. But not a huge amount, especially when you factor in they have to pay to play.
However the VB community is a huge social group and a lot of it is status. Winners are admired. It just so happens that H and OW used to win all the time. That is why even after the A was discovered and then ended, H insisted he would still play with OW. For the fact that they won and that people who win don't just stop playing together, it would possibly reveal the R they had or at least have people questioning.
It’s not like I didn’t know VB was so important to my H before I married him. Even way back I would sometimes get frustrated by how much he did. BUT it was easier, I had no child, I could go hang with him when he played or do my own thing.
That changed when S was born and it really changed when OW came into the pic. H had other women partners in the past because he always does better in co-ed, it was never really an issue. I trusted him. OW changed all of that.
Anyway, I don’t get him either LL. So many of VB are single and childless so it is their life. I think H wants it to be his. If he could do it all over I don’t think he would get married and he definitely wouldn’t have had children.
I don’t play VB and never have, in fact I’ve never played a sport. That was actually one of the things H liked about me, that I didn’t play because his ex-girl did and always wanted to play with him, but then they would fight on the court. He said GF/BF R’s and H/W R’s don’t mix on the court. (of course he and OW were VB partners first then A partners, go figure)
I know of at least 3 marriages that broke up among VB players with a non-player spouse. One is the OW and her H. The other is a girl who also started a R with her VB partner then left her H. They are still together. I guess we’ve been domed from the start.
So we are going to PA this weeked to see a Flyers game with our S and our Friends and their S. I got the tickets for H for x-mas, he is a Flyers fan and I thought he’d enjoy seeing a game in their home stadium. I don’t feel like going. Not one bit. In fact I don’t feel like even looking at my H let alone spending the weekend with him. ]
I haven’t seen him since Tuesday night for a short bit after work. He went to VB and then out, I was asleep when he got home (Our good GUY friend picked him up, so no worry of OW) Then yesterday he went straight to VB from work and then out I was asleep when he got home, and he left for work before I got up this morning. He had to be there early for an install.
I will try to be as normal as possible; I’m pretty good at acting as if. I don’t want to blindside him that I’m not happy about the league, but I also don’t want to ruin the weekend.
I just still am at such a loss at how to talk to him about his choice to play on ANOTHER league with OW. I also want to ask if he intends on playing doubles with her again this summer. Though I know the answer and I won’t like it. This is not the life I want. I just will not be happy.
) but just wanted to offer the support of saying "that's a toughie".