Ellie--Thanks. I DO realize that neither of us was wrong. In fact, I got that a long time ago.
But in his perception, it IS wrong.
I guess I'm still trying to figure out how to move from Mars to Venus (because that seems to be true for me too) and how to do that so that he sees me as human with feelings and vulnerabilities.
I'm going back to the original post by Trish--about walking that line of showing him that I care without crossing whatever boundaries he's made (and keeps moving on me).
Right now, I'm feeling sick, so it's time to go have a wee nap.
Since I don't stay down for very long, I'll get back to you on the nude calendar thing...
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
(((((Betsey))))) Wow- I didn't realize I would come back to all this. Talk about a challenge.
Although...I guess some of that huge emotion really needed to come back. You don't HAVE to be the tower of strength and PMA for all of us all the time. We love you even when you feel like, well, crap. I kind of wondered if I was just weird because I got overwhelmed with the unfairness of the sitch, and my anger about the sitch, and so on. Sometimes I am just so tired of waiting! Tired of trying so hard...and I feel like giving up. But for some reason (sometimes I don't know why) I don't. I hate the relationship I have with my H sometimes. But I don't hate him. I am still trying because of the times when it all falls together and makes sense - I don't feel neglected/hurt/ignored/angry, and he seems happy to just be with me as well. When or if those times stop happening, I guess I'll know it's time to stop. Time to go back to the beginning again, and decide how you're really feeling and what you want - not only out of this sitch, but out of life. You don't always have to be strong or happy - I think my husband would stand on his head before he would just let me be angry and be able to be there for me through that. I don't want him to share my emotions or be afraid of them - I just want to be allowed to have them without being afraid I'm going to lose one of the most important people in my life.
I can't promise anyone I'll never be angry again, so I guess the dilemma is this - is there a way to express emotion and receive support without scaring people who might just not be comfortable with emotions?
I still think you're mostly doing okay, Bets, although re-evaluation is always good I guess.
((((((((Betsey)))))))) Myrrh
One moment of patience may ward off great disaster. One moment of impatience may ruin a whole life.
Oh swetie, I think I'm going to call you. Is that ok? Bets, you are very smart and have learned your lessons well. And you are open to learning more. Having a disabled child has got to be the hardest challenge in the whole world to DEAL with. I think that is the answer...you are STRONG and you have DEALT. I don't think your H is strong enough and I don't think he has DEALT. And until he does, I can't see that you and he can really HEAL..you can reconcile, you can even have a happy marriage, but until HE is willing to look inside HIM with the same degree of openess as you have done....it's just so very hard. While I know in my heart that Cycler has giving you insight into what your H is thinking /feeling.....it is impossible to figure out wwhat it is that WORKS with a damaged man who has learned to cope with life using P/A skills. The secret part of him doesn't want you to figure it out, even tho the rational part of him does. And he CAN'T . Bets, I wanted the same things from my X, I think I would have killed (someone outside the immediate family) to have gotten a hug or some attagirls, but if I pretended Ididnt' need them...he was stoic, if I asked for them he appeared glazed and disgusted...if I was competent, he secretly seethed, and when I didn't do it right, he criticized. And I dont think it is in their power to forgive or trust. The worst of it is is that they MADE us be stronger. Our will is stronger, their will is pretty weak.....and no matter what we do, we can't give up our strenght and they can't much learn to be stronger willed. That sounds hopeless, and when my sister told me this a few hours ago, I got angry. It is all just so dammed unfair. I think he and you really want the same thing...it's just that he still thinks you are the enemy and that comes from the damage inside of him. I wish we could just tell them what it is inside our hearts and that they would KNOW we were telling the truth. But I think it is like they are P/A within themselves...at war with themselves,not just us.
And I do think that if we reach them soon enough, that hugging THEM helps...being the earthmommy and not the other kind of mommy. But then the little child in us cries out, when is it MY turn, don't I get a turn? Well, I never got a turn, and when I finally QUIT and stopped being strong...he left me. Damned if I did or didn't. And yes, mine too was scared to death of ANY emotion or feeling. The final indignity is that this is a special kind of damage. And I honestly beleive that left to their own devices they decide that it isn't worth it to come back.
I know this hasn't helped you figure out WTF to do. But my best advice is that what you are doing is working, so keep doing it. But at the same time build his strenghth little by little until he thinks you think he is as strong as you. And then, little by little, let him know that your strength is becasue of him (and NOPE,not the truth that it is because he is a wimp...pretend that it is because of something he said or did long ago that made a difference).
My sister said that Jim felt that I was smarter, better, at everything and that I gave him the impression that I thought so myself. That no matter what he did, that he could never meet my expectations. So he quit. I think she's mostly right. But I asked what I was supposed to do when he closed down, esp. when something happened to our d, like when she was molested. When I took over in the emergency and then fell apart after...all I wanted was him to hug me. and when he didnt' I thought it was cause he was embarassed, so I didn't bring it up. But whether he was embarassed that he didn't act like the strong one or not, my not making him face it..but with love...was the old white elephant in the living room. A therapist told me: you enabled him to be weak, what you needed to do was to lovingly force him to grow and become a stronger man. I think the therapist was right..but I dont' know how to tell you how to do it. You have to inspire him to be stronger in some way that doesn't trigger his fight or flight (which with them is really flight or flight. ha)...So maybe along the lines of look: I am trying to be strong for the both of us while you search for the answers to your heart's desire BUT I need your strenghth alongside my strength. Together we can be strong enough to work this out. Without your strength, I don't think I can be there for our daughters. It's hard to do it alone. We can use our strenghts to fight each other or to make a stronger whole.
hell..I don't know. will that make him run for the hills? Oh Bets, you really have been the strong one, and you surely deserve to have some hugs and kisses and hey, good sex wouldn't hurt either!!!! I wish you knew a man who would talk to your H and tell him he knows exactly what H is going through BUT that H has a good woman and it is time that H woke up and took control of his life and his family and became the provider that he vowed he would be. I waited for this knight to come to MY rescue with H...paid him a lot of money to do it, and he didn't. But I can still hope that that knight exists and that he WILL come to your aid.
Ok...I am calling. If you don't want to hug, just put the phone on messages. You will be ok and you will get through this. I still am betting on this marriage to work, ok?
I've been reading this thread today and I'm sure you're head is swimming. I hope you had a good nap and that you found the kleenix.
If you need a hug and more kleenix let me know and I can let you "find" me at King Soopers.
It was good to spend time with you again last night. Although I will admit to having a bit of a headache this morning! Damned puppies made me get up anyway!
I have just read through your thread for today and my heart goes out to you. You are an incredibly strong woman. Raising a disabled child takes a lot of energy and dealing with a separation on top of it..the stress of it all just makes my head spin. And yet you seem to be doing so well with your life.
I don't know that I've posted this on the BB, maybe on my thread awhile ago, but I had problems with two of my pregnancies where some decisions has to be made and to this day H has showed very little emotion about those losses. Said it was for the best and after our first loss he went fishing that night. H's way of dealing with it I guess! For the most part I dealt with the whole thing myself, with both losses I should say. The second loss H went away for the whole weekend on a fishing trip. I don't know that there would have been much H could have done, but just having him close by would have helped tremendously. But, I have finally let go of this, meaning the resentment, the bitterness about H's way of dealing with it as it is over and H was doing the best that H could under the circumstances.
I hope to be in Colorado this summer, Estes Park to be exact, maybe we could hook up! When you said the bowling tournament was in Loveland it brought memories of my H's second wife as that is where she was from!..
If it were possible, I would go get Meredith right now and we'd be on our way to you! I'm happy that you let go and wrote that post, and I hope getting the words out brings you some peace. It was as if I could feel some of your pain right through the words. I hate that we're all in this, Betsey. But, I'm glad we're all in this together. I hope that today somehow helps your tomorrow. Biggest Hugs ever.
Hi Betsey! I have not had time to read up on your threads--but the title caught my eye--it's been here awhile, but guess I never made the connection--but last night I was watching "finding nemo" with a gf. Had to chuckle! I loved the shark scene!!
Hud, you're a nice man, even if you don't have Paul Newman's eyes (but hey....does ANYONE???)
You've been a great friend to Betsey, even tho she stalks you!
Bets, I just wanted to check up on you today too....
Why is it that two people fall in love and then something tragic happens and one of them gets stronger by default while the other becomes immobilized by the fear and then cyles between NEEDING the other to be strong, being angry that the other is strong, compeling the other to be strong and then condemning the other for that strength?
Isn't it kinda what it feels like? I want to throw CONTROLLING out of the psychopop language. I'd let 'feeling controlled' stay and add 'taking control' and then 'set up'. Is that about right?
If a person can't accept that they aren't as strong as their partner, and if they can't realize that strenght can and often does transfer back and forth between partners , and that strength can be quiet or noisy and both are needed...what can be done? I think if we find the answer, there's a book in it somewhere.
Take a little break today, but do get dressed and go out with the girls for ice cream. Maybe you'll find the key to the garden.
Damned puppies made me get up anyway!