Ok, well I found this site by accident…sort of…it was a link to a link from a fitness site. Anyway I‘ve been floored by the things I am reading. I could have written half of it (although not as well).
My first thoughts are…Wow I’m not alone…there are other guys out there with the same problems…and to my surprise women also! I’m actually really glad to learn that, I had become rather negative on the female gender lately. Learning that it’s not just us guys makes me feel better in a weird way, it’s somehow less “perverted”. Could there actually be a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel?
After reading you’re insights, troubles and stories I feel emboldened to share my story and, more importantly (or is it selfishly), ask for your thoughtful and intelligent insight.
My story sounds like many of yours. Since it would require a few hundred pages to give everyone the “whole story” I think I’ll summarize via bullets. Kind of cold and impersonal but practical.
-Were virgins when we got married. -She has always had bad self image -The second night of our honeymoon I was not “up” to the situation. She took this badly. -The next time we had sex was 9 months later. -Then another 9 months and we fell into the routine of 3 times (maybe) per year for several years -W found my stash of adult materials (which was keeping me sane), not a good thing. -I grew cold and distant (and frustrated) -W withdrew from me. -W demanded answers -I answered, she didn’t like the answer. -She had babies (twins) went into depression and went on RX (which only magnify the problem) - FYI – after kids she went to bed for - She had major medical issues and the next 2 years were spent with our attention directed at beating that (which we did) -It took us nearly 10 years to see a C -We’ve worked with MD to get different RX with less side effects, some moderate success -C gave us activities but neither of us seemed willing to actually do them, I still haven’t figured this out. -C ended and we talked about going back but haven’t -I bought the books C recommended, W read the first chapter and hasn’t pick it up since -We’ve traded letters and notes (the best way for us to talk about this) for the last ~2-3 years since C. It usually starts when my frustration level hits a max. I get moody, she complains, I tell her what’s wrong, we talk. Nothing changes long term. -She has started wearing some more appealing (to me and that’s why she wears it) attire -She’s willing but not eager, it’s the last thing on her mind -If I complain she’ll, in the next few days, make sure my needs are met. -She says she enjoys it… -We’ve had the same discussion numerous times and I’ve reached the point where I do not see the point in spinning my wheels so I don’t bring it up anymore. - I have little confidence left to initiate since I get turned down 9-10 times. - She is my best friend and even if we never were intimate again we’d stay married.
The question of the day, how do I rekindle this issue without it turning into the same discussion about the same issue resulting in the same worthless outcome? I plan on ordering the SSM book but I’m worried about it finding the same fate as the other books I’ve bought.
Got to go, be back online late tonight. Sorry so long. Thanks
I haven't read the SSM yet, but the beauty of all of Michele's other books is, your spouse doesn't have to read them for you to start putting the principles into action. If you change your behavior, eventually your wife must change hers.
Also consider reading a non-sex related book called the Five Love Languages by Chapman - the more you can make her feel loved in other aspects of your R, the better luck you will probably have with the sexual issues.
I managed to get the wife to pick it up and encouraged her to read it. She started reading it and over a 1 week period she made it through the first two chapters. This is a woman who could have read it in one sitting if she wanted to. I hassled/encouraged her (in a good way) about it and she seemed to appreciate the things the book says. After a couple of weeks of her not reading past chapter 3 I stopped talking about it and have not mentioned it to her since (this has been about a month).
The longer it gets the more annoyed I’m getting. This is not the first time this has happened. We saw a counselor and she suggested the wife read a couple of books, she never did give them more than a quick glance.
I’ve express its importance and why it’s important. I’ve done everything I can think of to make sure she had opportunity to comfortably relax and read it. I take the kids and leave her to the bedroom, she just takes a nap. I’ve started to pull away from her and am getting to the point that I don’t want to be around her anymore. If something that is so important to me is not worth a small amount of effort on her part why should I continue? Any suggestions on how I can do something to make progress?
First I will say that this is a really good place to bounce ideas and set yourself straight.
I read your sit, sounds like mine and a few others of us here like hairdog, superdave, cemar, and tim47. These are the male HD regular bullsh!tters. We all have similar issues but are each in different places as far as resolving things. If you can filter our BS, there are tidbits of good things in our posts. Corri is the resident expert on a variety of topics and will set you straight when she detects that you are off track. I have found an approach that is working with my W right now despite my Ws motivation. It's still a very painful process because you will find yourself working your ass off while she will appear to be doing nothing. At least it is in my sit.
Anyway, your W sounds like mine...doesn't take C seriously and probably doesn't want it. What ever you do....DO NOT TAKE ANY ACTION UNTIL YOU HAVE HEARD FROM AT LEAST ONE of the LD women here. I nearly dropped a monster-sized bomb on my w based on cemar's and hairdog's advice...but Corri busted my chops in a big way and despite it being a very painful thing, I gained great insight and actually did the right thing.
Also, seriously hold back on any action until you post here for a while. In a matter of 2 weeks, I'm approaching W in a completely different way now than I was when I first came here after reading SSM.
There's some techniques that are not mentioned in SSM that I think will help you.
I'm telling everyone new here to do this first...
1. Define the Vision Collaborate with W on a "vision" for what you BOTH think a good, healthy relationship is. This keeps things looking into the future instead of the past. It's also easier to "dream" about a relationship where you are ML 3 times a week at some arbitrary time, 5 years from now. But consider all the love languages when doing this. Make sure that she gets to ask for the things she needs. When embarking on this journey, you will both be burning your fuel faster than you are now and will both need "refueling" more frequently. Along with the love languages, check out marriagebuilders.com and see their "love busters" and their version of what makes "love" work. This way, you shoot for a better a relationship which also happens to include more sex. The SSM book sometimes oversimplifies this and boils it down to 1.understanding feelings and 2. just doing it more.
2. Develop Principles From your vision, you can define a principle. An example would be..." "Time together is important" "ML is important" Then, every time you get a babysitter to go to a party, you might run though your list of principals and see that time together at home might be better (in the long run) than a party.
3. Define the Rules of Engagement examples.... * No referring to the past, past behaviors, etc. * Do "blindsiding" with an issue. 2 "i'm fines" and that's it...topic closed. * No yelling, swearing or interrupting. * Keep it positive * Always say "I would like...." instead of "you never...." (that's referring to the past...not allowed). etc.
Anyway..I could go on forever...this is just the beginning. Look forward to hearing more. I know we all seem to have a lot in common but despite the logic of this and the books, you will find that you and your W are very unique and will need to find your own style. Hopefully you can learn from some of us.
Dave36, You have come a long way in the last month. I'm impressed with your attitude now. lacknlvn, Listen to Dave36. We are all trying to do what he suggests. The improvement has to come from you first. Hopefully she then will follow your lead. My situation is identical to yours: * Disappointing honeymoon * Sex 3x per year * Rejected 9 times out of 10 * W won't read the books * etc. etc. but... after a couple of weeks of changing myself (suppressing my anger mostly) and focussing on love languages I have got her to agree to ML once every week and so far she has complied. It is possible to go from nothing to something... My advice. When a situation arises (for example an argument) think to yourself "What I have been doing has not worked so I must do the exact opposite". Instead of going in all guns blazing to win the argument, diffuse it by agreeing with her. After a couple of weeks of your completely different behaviour tell her gently that you would really like to improve your sex lives (it will not be a surprise to her of course) and suggest that, for a trial period, she agree to ML with you once a week on a fixed day and time and that she should accept it as an experiment and not turn you down, "Just do it". If she’s reluctant, ask her “What harm can it possibly do?” The hope with this routine is that after a few weeks her hang-ups will disappear and it will become an accepted part of life. Who knows you may eventually get some mid week too! SD
lacknlvin, I can't add anything constructive to what the "daves" have said, but watch my "one year later" thread for the next while... I'm hoping I'll have some encouraging things to post there soon. Keep the faith, bro!
I guess the frustrating part is that I feel like I'm the only one working on this. She says she wants to work on it but when it comes to the actual work she bails.
We've actually done some of what was suggested. We set goals of what we wanted to accomplish, I've showered her with attention, bought her romantic gift every month for a year. Nothing seems to work, she appreciates the gifts. But that the end of it. BTW, I can not tell you the last time she got me a gift.
She always seems to sub-consciously know when I’m about to ask for ML and she gets a head ache or a stomach ache or needs a nap. Which is an interesting story…I found an article a couple of years ago which stated that ML was a good cure for headaches, I (in jest) sent it to her. We had a good laugh and strangely she stopped getting headaches but had a sudden increase in stomach aches. Well I’m not the smartest guy around but it seemed obvious to me that she was avoiding me.
The only time she initiates (which is the only time we have ML since she rejects me every time) is when (in my opinion) she feels guilty. Sorry but I’m at a point where sympathy sex is not attractive. The last few times I simply lost interest during sex and “faked” my way through…yes a guy can fake it.
This is not what I thought being married would be like.
