I am going through one of my "moods" as my W calls it. It is where I backslide from my acceptance and appreciation into unforgiving, controlling, and generally aggitated. The trend is that whenever I ask for something from her she claims to already being doing all that she can or just tells me to deal with it. It doesn't seem to matter what my request is. I simply said that she is making feel unwanted physically. This happens in two ways. Either she wants something from me first or she makes me feel like I am bugging her. It wasn't always like this. She attributes it to our busy lifestyle but I'm not buying that. I think part of it is a current body image problem, but how in the heck to you bring that up without being decapitated?
The real issue now isn't what I asked of her, it is her response to me. "Deal with it" or "It is your problem" really makes me angry. I don't know how much I more I can do as I have done a lot. My perception is that it is in her court now. She told me this morning that if she doesn't do enough for me than I should seek it elsewhere. Hello, that is why I brought it up, I don't want it to go that way. Silly me, I am trying to communicate what I need, not hint or assume she'll figure it out. Excuse me for trying to be functional and proactive.
Sorry to be back on the board again. I had been away for so long but the same problems just keep coming up. I could give the full update but I don't have the time and don't want to bore you all to tears. Bottom line, unhappy and resentful is back, guess I should of learned to just shut my mouth and accept my fate.
Look - don't know the whole sitch, but I CAN offer you a glimpse from my past:
I was suffering from an overactive thyroid. I was on medications for it that on paper seemed to be taking care of the problem, but in reality were not working as well as my lab tests would indicate. Trying to keep up with a busy household of three kids, my very hyper and busy H, work, etc. just seemed overwhelming every day. The thyroid problem also affected my thinking - it was sluggish and I was very forgetful, had a really hard time organizing things, etc.
H was constantly trying to "fix" me - but his approach revealed his exasperation and anger (some of that anger was due to his own untreated clinical depression at the time). When he approached me in that way, it felt very unloving. I felt like here I was, running as fast as I possibly could, and he was criticizing me for not doing things well enough!
It didn't help that H had a history of being slightly ambivalent about having married me (long story, on my thread) so I took every criticism very personally - like he felt I wasn't "good enough" for him.
H couldn't understand why I wouldn't act upon his helpful suggestions, and why I wasn't managing things well. I couldn't understand why he couldn't see and appreciate everything I was doing. Impasse. Eventually I grew to feel that nothing would ever be good enough for him and kind of gave up.
Well, we've gotten past all that now, thank goodness. But I still wonder how much more quickly it might have been resolved if H had been able to approach me in a totally loving, supportive way, instead of an angry, critical way. Might have saved us both a lot of heartache.
So - what can you do to change the sitch around? It's hard for wives and mothers to give themselves permission to take care of themselves when they are so overwhelmed taking care of others. So maybe some first steps would be: - mandatory date night every week - do as much as you can around the house to help her, or hire a cleaning lady (in a nice, gee honey you do so much, let me lighten your load way, not in a gee honey, you're a failure at this kind of way) - make sure she is physically well. Any other ideas? What could you do right now that would make her feel loved and appreciated?
What you said hit home with me. I do tend to be critical, a "fixer", and "overly helpful" if you know what I mean. Intentions are good but it never, okay, seldom is perceived positively. I am an advisor by profession to people aged 25 to 85 and they have no problem taking my advice. It just doesn't work that way at home. My W also feels that nothing she does is good enough and seems to have developed a complex about it. No comments I make are seen as constructive, only destructive. I have changed the way I address her in these matters and that has helped, sometimes. I do compliment her on so many things she does but that gets nullified at the first critique. The latest request was quite simple, I thought. Please throw a little more attention my way like in the old days. Date nights are well and good but that shouldn't have to be a prerequisite. Maybe the fact that I am a HD male completely precludes me from understanding the LD female.
So tell me, how does a fella go about getting a response other than, "I am already doing all I can" or "deal with it" or "that's your problem". You didn't let me in on that little secret in your reply. By the way, I kick @$$ on housework and grocery shop like a fiend. If I have a shirt that is missing a button, I take care of it myself. We had a nanny and that didn't work either.
I scheduled a MC session tomorrow to resolve our "issues". She was really good for me and I am anxious to see her.
I just got back from a MC who had helped me a lot in the past but for the first time my W went along for what I thought was going to be joint therapy. A lot of good information came out. My W feels like she is never good enough and I feel like my needs are never acknowledged. I stressed that the issue here isn't just the "desire" issue it is the disregarding my needs issue. I was pretty happy until right at the end when the MC asked if I wanted to come back next week to talk about "stress and anger management". The MC then asked my W if she would attend also. WTF!!! My W did mention my "rages" as she calls them several times but I though we had specified to the MC that it isn't rage but a mood I get in. I am stunned and amazed. A friend of mine said he got caught up in the same sort of quandry when he went in with his XW.
I thought we were discussing communication and relating issues not my stress. If we are going to go there, how about her low self-esteem, deceit, and selfishness. You have to be kidding me! It didn't even hit me until later so I have since put a call into the MC about the "direction" of our discussions. If this is going to be all about my "issues" I am done with this MC for good. That is not in any way, shape, or form what this is all about. This is supposed to be about a couple who is trying to relate better to their S. My friend warned me and I didn't listen. I just wanted a mediator to helps us discuss things in a more productive fashion. I will update later but she better call me back so I can find out what is going on. This feels like a "Twilight Zone" episode and I don't like it one bit.
Okay T-bone - I understand your concerns. But just let me plant one little seed here. My H was especially irritated and angry BECAUSE he was suffering from clinical depression. Now, he would never have admitted it at the time. It wasn't until he had his affair and then almost a nervous breakdown when the affair came to light, and became suicidal, that he went to a therapist and got put on Prozac. It made a huge, enormous change.
He went off it after a few weeks, because we had reconciled and things were going well and he figured he didn't need it. Within 2-3 months he was horribly depressed again, and this time he could see it wasn't due to anything going wrong with us. He went back on the Prozac and has since said that he can't believe how many years he suffered that he didn't have to, all because of undiagnosed depression.
Now, I'm not saying that's what you have - just encouraging you to consider the possibility. In men especially, it can manifest as irritability and anger rather than tearfulness and sadness.
And even if that's NOT your problem - consider that, your job in therapy is to work on YOU. My H took me into MC with the expectation that the MC was going to FIX me - a very bad start. Don't do that to your W. Set a really good example by working on your stuff.
Also - if W is willing to go to MC with you - would she be willing to listen to Michelle's KLA tapes with you? Could be more productive than therapy.
I hear what you are saying but don't think that is the problem. When I am hurt and stressed I do have the feeling of not wanting to do anything, but that usually fades quickly. It is the intense stress and frustration that causes me to be irritable. I try very hard to keep stress out of my life because I have a limit of what I can handle.
Help me with this thought I have. I guess I expect my W to be a reliever of my stress not a contributor. For so many years she has done far more to contribute than to relieve and that has made me very resentful. I began to see her the same as a difficult client or problem employee. She is supposed to be on my team not fighting against me. That is how I felt. I guess I even felt a little betrayed by it. She has financially undermined me so many times and that was my biggest issue. I can't write anymore about this stuff. I have rehashed it so many times and justified why I am upset that it is pointless. The bottom line is that I don't respect her and am very angry at her. She has effectively pushed me away. I want to handle our issues better but I don't know how. Now that the MC isn't addresing "our" issues I truly feel trapped. I promised myself that my boys would be raised at home with their mom and dad. My option is to continue on this path of frustration or give up my promise. My W now has the attitude of see I told you it was all your fault. She is back on her high-horse and does no wrong. I am in for a very long and difficult path. This probably sounds like pointless rambling to all but I don't feel teribly eloquent right now. I am sure the MC would recommend that I "find my happy place", "take some Troy time", "take slow deep breaths", "count to ten", or "exercise". I have been through this stress management stuff before, can you tell?
Look, I'm not in your sitch. And I'm not trying to tell you your W doesn't have things wrong with her, anymore than I believe my marital problems were all about my H's depression - it definitely takes two to tango, and we were both responsible.Unfortunately, what happens is, you get in this downward spiral that feeds on itself ; "I don't want to do anything for her, because she's not doing anything for me, and I'm angry, but she doesn't feel like putting herself out for the angry guy who makes her feel inadequate, and you don't feel like putting yourself out for her," around and around and down we go.
So let me simplify: - Depression CAN amplify what would seem like normal irritability. My H would have said he had perfectly valid reasons for his anger - except that he really reacts so differently to the same triggers now that his depression is treated. I can actually relate to that, because when my thyroid was really overactive, I would have days where I would get SO uncharacteristically p.o.'d, and if you had approached me at the time, I would have insisted it was all the fault of the person ticking me off. Now in retrospect it's easy for me to see how wacky my thyroid problem was making me, and how disproportionate my responses was (even if technically I could find a justification for it).
- You are the one here with the DB knowledge, so it's up to you to start the upward spiral. I know, it's not fair - but it just is. If you can take that leap of faith, start doing what's best and most loving for her, start treating her like your girlfriend - you WILL reap the benefits eventually. It takes time but it will happen.
- get the KLA tapes and listen to them with your wife. Again, I think you may find it very useful at this point.
- if money has been a big issue, consider changing how you handle it - giving her some, you some and the rest in a household bill-paying account. No credit cards. But don't treat her like a child - just set some limits.
I did my best DBing in the last several days and was rewarded handsomely. My venting here helped to put me in a more stable state of mind. On friday I simply asked how long she was going to be "cool". Ofcourse the immediate response wasn't very good but it did stop te "ice queen" act. Several strange things happened to us in the last couple days that were evidence of some "extra" help. Little signs and situations that were not of this earth. The result was both of us being positive and the upward spiral starting. Positive actions equalled positive responses kind of like some crazy psych experiment. The bottom line is that what kml said about downward spirals was right. We were in one and made a joint decision to turn it around.
Why does it always take huge conflict to straighten us out? That part really puzzles me. Why can't we be more positive towards each other all the time? Must be human nature to periodically try to self destruct. I am hoping to get some good info from the MC this week. I think we both are in a better frame of mind to "hear" things this time.
Quote: Why does it always take huge conflict to straighten us out?
T-bone - as you learn more and more DBing skills, you'll find yourself able to stop those downward spirals in the beginning, you won't be condemned to repeating old patterns. So glad you had a good weekend
