CeMar, I hope you don't mind that I took your post and modified it a bit. I tried to take a bit of the edge off (although I am intimately familiar with your frustration) and make it applicable to everyone with a lower drive spouse instead of just men. I hope you like it. I am going to send it to my spouse.
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In marriages, the lower drive spouse is basically always in control, and this really bothers the higher drive spouse. Many higher drive spouses liken this to going to the candy store and begging Mommy for a piece of candy. Mommy holds all the power. Eventually the higher drive spouse's pride takes over and they stop "begging" for "candy". It is at this time that "Growing Apart" begins to occur. To put it bluntly, when higher drive spouses ask for attention, and these requests continually go unmet, they eventually give up asking and move on. Most higher drive spouses in this situation, tire of not having their legitimate needs met, but rather than continue to hurt their lower drive partners and themselves, they just give up, and the relationship begins to drift apart.
The Lower Drive 10 Step Guide to Their Higher Drive Spouse What to do:
First, know that this is not about sex or the physical acts themselves, it is about the lower drive spouse's desire to do them. Higher drive spouses hate to be patronized. Intimacy and sex can happen any time, but they are only truly fulfilling when both partners want it. Desire is everything to the higher drive spouse.
Second, kiss your higher drive spouse many times a day, with an occasional "passionate" kiss each day. A few heartfelt "I love yous" couldn't hurt here either.
Third, flirt often. Pat or squeeze butts, hug from behind and press your body tightly against your higher drive spouse. The important thing here is to linger. Lingering in these flirtations is one of those really huge "little things" that will make all the difference to your higher drive spouse.
Fourth, be willing to touch your higher drive spouse at anytime, try to sneak in this fondling in public if possible. This will let them know that you are thinking of them as more than just a roommate.
Fifth, as far as sex is concerned, if your higher drive spouse wants sex 3 times a week, make sure to at least get in twice a week. This part is particularly tricky for lower drive spouses having sex, they usually don't (and here is that word again) linger. Many times the lower drive spouse just wants to "get it over with" so they can go on about their business. If, as a lower drive spouse, you think your higher drive partner does not realize you are doing this, you are sadly mistaken. For the most part, higher drive spouses are acutely aware of how you are feeling and, more often than not, they are horribly crushed by this lack of regard for their feelings. It is important for you to develop your own sense of desire by making yourself think about sex several times a day. Eventually, it will become a habit. Masturbation is also a pretty good way of building your desire, just make sure you do it often enough to help you learn desire.
Sixth, when you are making love with your spouse, FORGET EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE WORLD! This cannot be stressed enough. Have at least one session of love making every week where you linger over the sex, spending an hour or two being intimiate where you just made love. Have sex, caress, talk, fondle, tease, laugh, have sex again if you want. Be creative and relax. There might even be a surprise in this for you. During these intimate times your higher drive spouse will probably open up to you in ways that you have never experienced. You could have some truly unbelievable conversations.
If your higher drive spouse is a man, more often than not, he will be a much more intimate conversationalists after sex, rather than before. You could literally be holding his "manhood" in your hands. Become best friends with "it" and will have a partner who will do absolutely anything for you. This is such a simple thing but it is guaranteed to yield truly profound results.
If your higher drive spouse is a woman, become best friends with her entire body. Learn as much as you can about her "womanhood" in particular. The things that go on in a woman's genitalia are far more subtle than in a man's. Educate yourself, ask your partner, and know her "womanhood" better than you know yourself and you will have a partner who will worship you.
Seventh, initiate sex with you higher drive spouse, often, at least once a week. In your higher drive spouse's mind, you initiating sex will be the most spectacular event of your marriage every time you do it and it will boost their ego beyond belief. It will never get old to them.
Eigth, if your higher drive spouse asks for sex, and you're just not in the mood, don't flatly say no or act "put out" (no pun intended), simply set up a time in the near future (within 48 hours if possible) to actually get together specifically for sex, AND STICK TO IT. In the mind of your higher drive spouse, saying no can be a complete and utter rejection of their person. It can actually feel down right offensive to them at times. Try saying something like, "Honey, I don't really feel up to it right now, but how about first thing in the morning? I'll make it memorable for you!" This won't come across as a rejection to your higher drive spouse (unless you don't actually follow through). Instead, it will most likely be music to their ears.
Ninth, most higher drive spouses derive as much pleasure from pleasing their partners sexually as they derive from the actual physical act of sex itself. Instead of focusing on whether or not you actually want to have sex, or anything else for that matter, focus on GIVING and RECEIVING sexual pleasure. Let pleasure become the only thing in your mind. Take turns pleasing each other. Think of what your spouse might like and TRY IT. Don't be concerned whether or not you are doing something right or wrong. Just do! Be creative, be experimental, shock your partner! If you want something, ask for it! Your spouse will let you know their likes and dislikes, just as you should let them know yours. If they like what you do, remember it, if not, don't feel bad, just don't do it anymore. Unless, of course, it is something that is important to you. In that case, you should discuss it with your spouse, but not until a few hours after you have finished making love, or maybe even wait until the next day. Your spouse will appreciate and respect your openness to sexual discussion.
Tenth, sleep naked (as often as possible) and always cuddle with your higher drive spouse. If you get cold or hot easily, buy a different blanket. Get used to this, after all, if you can't be naked in bed with your partner, how can either of you be truly open with each other outside the bedroom, much less be open sexually? You need lot's of naked, non-sexual time together.
My LD spouse talks a lot about boundaries and such. As I was reading this 10 step guide, I began to realize that it is like a set of boundaries for me. I know boundaries are defined by the individual but, do you think this is aiming too high?
To a LD spouse, this list probably sounds IMPOSSIBLE to ACHIEVE. But if I compare this to when my relationship with my wife was good, we did everything on this list plus more. So in my mind, I have already brought my expectations down. I suppose that REALISTICALLY I need to come down even some more.
IF my H had tried any of this, I would not be going for a D right now. Sad to think that we are so inconsequential to our spouses that we are pushed away. Then we leave because the pain is just too great to continue on.
my LD wife is reading the book, seems to be reading to make me happy but I havent seen any goals or actions set yet. I saw this guide and gave her a copy, If she would follow it, I would be much more satified than I am now. I was wondering if what is needed is a HD guide to LD giving a straight forward 'to do' list of things/actions that I can do that might help her (help us!). Any thoughts on this?
Folks, My W asked me for a list of specific things that I wanted so I gave this "guide" to my W. The sex got worse. Things didn't change at all until I started doing the Passionate Marriage stuff. This list is only good when your LD partner wants to be "very" involved in the recovery. The post from the Johanna convinced me to give it to W. But now I see that the people on this site LD or HD are the motivated partner and would be inclined to be more open to new ideas. Most of us don't have the luxury of a motivated LD. My advice is to avoid using this guide. You will get your spouse more aroused by firmly (yet lovingly) looking her in the eyes and saying..."I want to ML to you at least....", then let them figure out how to get there. The more we try to "fix" things the more we make ourselves look like dorks.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Now I am only starting chapter 11 in PM, so obviously I don't know everything I should. But how do you encourage tha LD spouse to attempt to address there own demons? Do you basically have to threaten to leave? Is this the only way?
Quote: But how do you encourage tha LD spouse to attempt to address there own demons?
You don't, CeMar. That's the point. Her demons are hers, and your demons are yours. You deal with your OWN demons, part of which means you lay down clear boundaries with your W (once you know them for yourself), and then you hold onto yourself, stand up for yourself, and do things differently. Unilaterally. Without permission. Believe me, just doing that (if you can) will DEFINITELY change the relationship. She will either face her demons, or she will leave. When faced with a differentiating spouse, the other spouse will either differentiate or leave. THAT'S the point...
darn, Tim always beats me to the answer but I've been driving across the freakin' country the past 2 days. CeMar, tim is right but I want to reassure you that you are not wrong for thinking this way right now. It was only about 3 weeks ago when I went to the C and had to tell the C and my W what I thought my W's issues were and I want to fire my C for letting me do that. It was completely stupid thing to do and we had the quiet drive home until we reached the driveway before I got a big f-u from my W over something I said in C.
Anyway, it's so much more simple now. I just tell her what I want (in a kind, loving way)...period. She has told me that the pressure has vanished. I can now see her working through her issues in her own way. I realized that I shouldn't worry about it if she MBs in private (or not) because all I should care about is how she's addressing my desires. How she gets there is her problem until she asks for help with something.
All I can really do is work on myself, assert my desires and try to create an environment that allows her to feel safe. Just make sure that your "list" reflects behaviors that involve you directly and doesn't reflect a "type" of person. It would be cool to think my W was like the HD gals here but she just isn't and that's fine as long as my desires are being fulfilled. It wouldn't be completely inappropriate to ask her to play the "role" of an HD gal with you for a day including vibrator MB etc. It just takes steady, consistent steps. Hope that helps.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
