Hey, everybody. This is my first post, sorry it's so long! Thanks to Michelle and everyone who posts such great advice on this board. It's good to know I'm not alone!
My story in a nutshell: I'm a HD, my W is LD. We were so in love when we first got together 11 years ago. We were always embarassing our friends with our "PDA". We couldn't keep our hands off each other. We laid around the house on each other's laps, kissed, caressed, played, made love 5 times a week.
I honestly don't remember when her LD started to become apparent, but it became a big problem when she got pregnant the first time 6 years ago. She said she didn't enjoy sex, couldn't get comfortable, etc. Sex decreased to a "dog biscuit" she threw me twice a month, wholly unsatisfying for either of us.
Once the baby came, she became SuperMom and our love life took a permanent position at the bottom of her list of priorities. 2 years later came pregnancy number 2 and we went into a complete sexual freeze-out for 9 months. "What's the point? It's not enjoyable when I'm pregnant anyway," she would say. What I didn't realize at the time was that I desperately needed that sensual touch, and the connection that lovemaking gives us. And I couldn't understand how she didn't feel that need. It was all she could do to take care of a toddler and deal with her pregnancy aches. I was just another annoyance. All my loving touches were taken as sexual advances, and all my advances were flatly rejected.
I began to think about how great it would be to have a woman who desired me again. But I couldn't talk to my wife about those selfish feelings, after all, she was carrying our baby. My resentment got so deep I actually "forgot" to get her a birthday present. I deeply regretted it and had a million excuses, but I suppose I was subconsciously "checking out" of our relationship. I felt like we were brother and sister. The worst part was that it seemed like she liked it that way. To her, nothing was wrong! Except for the conspicuous lack of a birthday present.
That incident aside, I'm not really a bad guy. I do a lot around the house, and devote all my non-working hours to my family. I love my beautiful wife and I love my precious children. But to me, when the kids go to bed, it's time to take the Mommy and Daddy hats off and be a couple again. Be LOVERS again.
Well, I tried to grin and bear it through the second infancy. Sex became a once-a-week ritual beginning with phrases like, "Let's get this show on the road, I need to be up in 7 hours" or "We're running out of time, [TV SHOW] starts in 12 minutes!" Strangely, she said that sex was more pleasureable since giving birth, but she still had little interest in it.
About 6 months ago we went on vacation. Immediately prior to that was one of her 8-day menstrual periods during which time all sensual contact is forbidden. We were staying in a crowded house with family, so I didn't push the sex issue, waiting for a time that would be comfortable for her. After more than 2 weeks with no sex, I was bursting at the seams. I found the perfect window of opportunity when the whole crowd went down to the beach and we were left alone in the house with the baby sleeping in our room. I laid down a blanket in the hidden upstairs loft and led her up to see our "love nest". "No way, are you crazy?" she said. I was so hurt I angrily yelled that we hadn't had sex in 2 1/2 weeks and I couldn't believe she didn't want it. She didn't want ME! She apologized and we went up and had lame, forced, disconnected sex. I tried to tell her how sad I was afterward but she didn't want to talk about it. She essentially pitied me for having these juvenile urges.
After several more months of the status quo and no luck getting her to talk about the issue, I decided to look for help. I found an online article in Redbook that I printed out for her. It suggested, among other things, that reading erotica can be stimulating to LDs. Taking a chance, I got her a copy of The Best American Erotica 2003. And she loved it! She began reading a few stories and then initiating sex with me. She asked for more sexy books for Christmas. I was happy to oblige, and also gave her her first vibrator, which went over like a lead balloon. Oh well, you never know unless you try, right? Then one night I was watching "Real Sex" on HBO and she told me she thought I was becoming obsessed with sex. She said the vibrator really weirded her out and that she thought of it as something only "S&M people" use. So my campaign to unlock her sexual dynamo within kind of fell flat.
So she agreed that it's important for us to make love 2x a week, which is progress. It actually ends up being 5 or 6 times a month, not nearly enough for me, but it could be worse. The sex itself is really good, though 1 minute each of foreplay and afterplay is about all she can tolerate. I always have a bittersweet feeling afterwards because I know it will be a while before we're that close again. I have lobbied for more kissing and "making out", but she says that always leads to sex, so she doesn't want to kiss passionately unless it's a "sex night". Most nights she just wants to watch TV and go to sleep.
Then I started reading TSSM. It said so many things I have thought or said a million times, but wondered if I was just weird or hypersexed or something. Nice to know that we HDs aren't alone. And it's good to know that my W isn't alone as an LD. I think we've both been thinking that something is wrong with the other one, when the fact is that we're very DIFFERENT, but neither one is wrong. Hopefully she will read it, too.
This lady is the love of my life, the mother of my children, and I don't want to feel "trapped" with her, though I often do. I don't want to ever be unfaithful, as I know it would ruin our marriage and hurt our children. Does anybody have advice on things I can do to improve my situation and/or keep it from getting worse? Thanks!
Join the club, there are literally MILLIONS of us guys in your very same situation. You fell for the old "Bait and Switch" routine. You thought she was a high sexed person just like yourself, you were compatible. THEN SHE CHANGED and YOU DID NOT! It's weird, these women become new mothers and they adopt a whole new attitude on life that is COMPLETELY WRONG. The focus their lives on being mothers rather then lovers. This is the worst thing they could do for their children! They need to be lovers FIRST, and mothers second. I could find a half dozen experts in marriage that SAY JUST THIS. The best thing that mothers can do for their children is to be lovers with DAD, otherwise they risk being SINGLE mothers, and that is not good for anyone. I can tell you from my own experience that childbirth can REALLY screw up a women and her sex drive. It is VERY common. When my wife started having children, I was willing to give her a break on the sex thinking that childbirth and the pressure of being a new mom were TEMPORARILY causing her to not have much desire. Well, 8 years after the birth of our last child and me getting fixed to make me safe, she has less desire then EVER. Funny thing is that I now am no longer being patient and I am voicing my needs for affection and sex, and guess what, she tells me she thinks I am having a mid life crisis. I personally believe that the so called MLC is just the husband finally doing something about the sex life he so desparately has ALWAYS wanted.
Well, anyway, back to your situation. First step is to try and get her completely checked out, especially her hormones. 2, she may have developed a Hypoactive thyroid, childbirth can bring these on. Hypoactive thyroids basically slow her body down to much and will cause weight gain and a great dip in desire. I know, my wife has one. Step #3, you need to become the "World's Best Husband". This means, romance her, communicate with her, pick up as many house hold chors as possible, watch the children, spend lots of quality time with the wife, a bizzilion differnet things. I would recommend reading the 2 books by Beverly DeAngelis about "What Men want Women to know about Men" and "What Women want Men to know about Women". The first book is for you to read and see if this book describes your needs and if so, see if you can get your wife to read it as if it is an owners manual for you. The second book is to try and understand women better, and make yourself into a better guy.
I will warn you, that not much is ever going to change in your relationship until your WIFE does something about this, there is only so much you can do. That's what really bites about this situation, us HD guys have so little control over the most important aspects of our lives, our sexualities. After you read the first book above, you will completely understand how deep our sexualities impacts our lives, and how we are completely at the mercy of our spouses. We have so very few options other then divorce.
Good luck!
If you find something that works, PLEASE LET US ALL KNOW!!!!
Good suggestion, LDWife, but I'll probably finish reading it this weekend and then give it to her. I don't want to be pushy, but I have let her know that it describes the way I have been feeling to a T. Once she reads it, maybe she will be more open to talking about our relationship, figuring out what issues are keeping her desire down and making a plan together to try and make things better. Right now she feels like I'm pushing the issue too much, so I want to let her go at her pace.
Right now I'm on what I call "The Dark Side Of The Moon", as we went 3 days without sex, then her period came, so it will be at least another week before we ML. These 11-day sexless stints seem to have absolutely no effect on her- she's not more hungry for it after the long wait or anything. Me, I'm starving! Thanks for the reply, too, CeMar.
Quote: Good suggestion, LDWife, but I'll probably finish reading it this weekend and then give it to her. I don't want to be pushy, but I have let her know that it describes the way I have been feeling to a T. Once she reads it, maybe she will be more open to talking about our relationship, figuring out what issues are keeping her desire down and making a plan together to try and make things better. Right now she feels like I'm pushing the issue too much, so I want to let her go at her pace.
Right now I'm on what I call "The Dark Side Of The Moon", as we went 3 days without sex, then her period came, so it will be at least another week before we ML. These 11-day sexless stints seem to have absolutely no effect on her- she's not more hungry for it after the long wait or anything. Me, I'm starving! Thanks for the reply, too, CeMar.
Chachi, you are not alone, however I WISH I had only gone 11 days without sex. Been before Thanksgiving for me.
I ordered a copy of TSSM yesterday. Can't wait to read it.
You are not alone Chachi. What you discribed is almost exactly the same as my situation. However, I have finished TSSM and ask my W to read it and maybe she too can come to understand my feelings. It has been two weeks since I have finished it, but she has yet to pick it up. I have hinted at her reading it, but I do not want to seem pushy either.
I finished the book last night and put it on her night table. Tonight I am going to apply the "if she's not deaf, she hears you" principle. I'll make sure to communicate the fact that I think the book can help her understand my feelings. Then I won't mention it again and see what happens.
Father_Of_Three, you have a very good point. Reading all the tragic stories on this board has made me realize that my situation could be a lot worse. I'm going to try to see the glass as half full and not get resentful.
Another thing I realized from the book was how my reaction to the problem makes it worse. When I get hurt, I usually raise my voice, and that is a big desire-killer for a nurturing person like my W. Another thing I do when she refuses sex is to "roll over and play dead". Next time I'm going to do the opposite. I will say, "No problem," and cuddle up to her.
I realized the most frustrating thing about dealing with my situation and the cause of my "trapped" feelings. It is the ineffectiveness of my negotiating skills in my marriage.
In my business and personal life, I think I am a good negotiator. I am very logical, try to see both points of view, decide on a minimum I'm willing to accept, and if it doesn't happen, I'm always willing to walk away. This can work when buying or selling property, negotiating salary, etc.
Premarital relationships were always the same way for me. Not that I'm a bully, but there's a point when you say, "time to punt and try my luck elsewhere".
When you use this strategy, quite often, the other party sees that you are serious, stops you from walking away and agrees to meet your needs. In a relationship, it can be the wake-up call that rekindles what you once had. Or it can be a relief to both parties to simply walk away.
Here comes the frustration: I'm not willing to walk away from my marriage and my family! Honestly, if we didn't have kids and/or weren't married, I would have done it months ago, without question. And don't get me wrong, I would be rooting for the "wake-up call" scenario, not the "walk away" result. I have never loved anyone like I love this woman, but I would be willing to play hard ball if it weren't for the kids. And in order for the strategy to work, you have to be truly willing to walk away, which in this case would ruin all our lives.
Please understand, I know there's a big difference between selling a car and working out a relationship. But I simply have to find another way to think, and reason, and negotiate my marriage.
I think one of the hardest things for HD men (not typcially HD women, though Honeypot, correct me if I am wrong), is that they have a very difficult time opening up to their spouses and telling them how they really feel. Instead of sharing 'what they are feeling,' they get mad and strike out at the thing that is hurting them -- usually the spouse.
The very thing that you are withholding from your spouse because it makes you feel 'too vulnerable' is the EXACT thing your spouse needs to feel empathy, compassion and love -- what they need to feel close to you.
Were you to ever sit down and tell your wife how you crappy, emotionally vacant, and unloved you feel -- without laying the blame at her feet -- I'm wondering what that would get you. Were you to curl up in a ball and cry on your bed 'because you just can't take the emptiness anymore...' I wonder what the heck she would do.
I wonder what she would do if you told her that you are slowly dying inside, and that the last thing you want is to rip your family apart, but in order to save yourself, you may in fact have to do that one day...
And doing all this without a trace of anger, without an ounce of blame, but just as an outpouring of how you feel...
You may say, "I've done that!!" But have you really? Are you sure? Every time I can remember my H trying to get real or honest with me, he was usually gritting his teeth, or staring holes through me... and what he thought was an honest emotional exchange was nothing more than a lecture to me.
So you say, jeese, Corri, what the heck do you expect from me?
I expect emotional honesty, no blame, no anger, tears if need be, no manipulation, a friend in need... and I need it PASSIONATELY. I need to know that I am THE person you trust enough in this world to be completely and totally honest and vulnerable about the REAL you... the one no one else in this world gets to see -- how you REALLY FEEL about things. THAT makes ME feel special. And trust me, please, that is NOT communicated to me through sex, even though you as an HD man might think it is.
I need humor, and thoughtfulness, I need someone to give to me the way I like to receive, not the way I should like to receive. I need someone to recognize how tired I am, how much I do give on a daily basis, so that when that person comes to me with one more 'want' for the day, I can find it in myself to give it, and give it with PASSION.
I need to feel like I am the coolest, most unique, most special and amazing person my H has ever met... the way I felt when we dated. He got ALL my attention then because that is how I felt when I was with him.
Do I feel that way anymore? Nope. I get a littany of everything I DON'T do, every way I am FAILING him, digs on what I lack (oh sorry, honey, just kidding), lists of what he wishes I WOULD do, or things I USED to do... so now, I feel like a failure, not so special of a person, I'm really tired at the end of the day, and no, I really can't find it in myself to give you want YOU want, at least not with any degree of passion.
I don't need a glass of wine to get in the mood, I need to know how my H feels about something that no one else in the world knows, that he would never, ever share with anyone but me.
I don't need candles and soft music, not really. I need to be able to share my deepest secrets with him and have him be truly and utterly fascinated by the fact that I feel that way... and have him encourage me to share even MORE of how I feel. Or, I need him to see how much I AM hurting inside, or how much I AM feeling fustrated... I don't need sex for that, I need a HUG, and someone to hold me and tell me everything is going to be okay, that I'm doing a great job as a mom and a wife, and I don't need him telling me this as his hand slides down my pants, or around my breast, or squeezing my butt.
I don't need a negotiation, for I see that exactly as it is, a negotiation, a barter. That doesn't make me feel special, it makes me feel used, and all it communicates to me is that you need something, and therefore you are willing to GIVE me something in exchange for it. Not because you think I am so special that you just want to give me something you know I like, with no strings attached, and absolutely no expectation of anything in return.
This could just be all me, and your wife may not feel remotely close to any of this. But if she does, maybe this will help?
Corri, all your posts are so great! My W probably does feel the same way you do. The hard thing, as a man, as a big, testosterone-and-adrenaline-filled man trying to express something that's tearing him up, is to keep from coming across angry.
The best I have done with that in recent months was one time after we ML and I felt like we both had our guard down. I was able to speak quietly from the heart and told her a lot of the same things you suggested. She seemed to understand the depth of my pain much better than she ever had, although she sees my sex drive as something akin to a chronic illness- "Oh, you poor thing. That must be awful."
And looking back on it, you're right. Most of the times I have tried to bare my soul about our love life, she has seen it as a blame session about a problem I dreamed up. She even told me about how another mom gloated to her, "my H is lucky if he gets it 3 times a month!" My response was, "Does that woman really think her marriage is going to last with an attitude like that?"
The "real giving" thing is tough, because even when you're truly trying to do something selfless, your motives are questioned. And we both give so much every day that goes unnoticed or at least unrecognized. As often as possible I tell her thanks for all that she does, that she's the world's best mom, that she's so talented, beautiful, sweet, and that I love her so much. And after we ML, I always tell her she's the sexiest woman in the world, because to me, she is.
I think the difference between my situation and some others is that I, the HD, am the one who's always trying to open up the lines of communication. To sit out on the porch swing instead of watching TV. To lie together after the kids go to bed and talk about what she's happy or unhappy about. And I get nothing but dead ends. And any time she mentions something and we start disagreeing, she says, "I should just learn to keep my big mouth shut." And I say, "Don't you see that it's good that we're getting things off of our chest and working through them together?" But she doesn't see it that way. If she can escape into the boob tube until she falls asleep, that's a great night. She'll even say that sometimes after we watch 2 hours of TV, on separate sides of the bed, "I had a fun night with you." What? When we talked about that one commercial?
I'm still hoping one day we'll have a breakthrough. BTW, I gave her the SSM book with the the sincerest message that it would tell her exactly how I have been feeling, and probably how she has been feeling, too. I decided not to mention it again, and so far it's been used as a coaster on her night table. But it's still on the night table! All I can do is wait, hope, and try to love her the way I think she wants to be loved.
