Hey all you lovely HDers, I need some advice, if you would.
Here's the sitch.
I'm LD, my H is HD. For about a year now, we've had a great amount of success in finding a happy medium. Some months we are better at it than others. Typically when things start to fall off is when the realities of life interfere. We're busy, you know? Rushing kids here and there during the week, their stuff on the weekends, his work load and associated pressures with his job... you know, life.
As an HD, he seeks comfort and reassurance from me through physcial closeness. I typcially seek comfort and reassurance through sleep. That's how I recharge.
When sex isn't possible, can you give me suggestions on what I can do to connect on a level he will understand? Outside of the bedroom? The little things? Do you know what I mean?
I can handle Handjobs, Oral, cuddling in the bedroom... but I'm talking about all the other things that I could do outside of the bedroom...
Quote: I can handle Handjobs, Oral, cuddling in the bedroom... but I'm talking about all the other things that I could do outside of the bedroom...
Let's see, there's always sex on the kitchen counter, in the backseat of the minivan, the wonder of the "nooner" in his office chair.... They're all "outside of the bedroom."
Okay, seriously. Assuming his "primary love language" is touch, what's his secondary? Mine is "words of affirmation." I'd love to hear my wife tell me how she missed me, or how she thought of me during the day. I'd love to get a sexy e-mail from her during the day, or find a greeting card that she picked out, wrote a personal message on, and hid in my briefcase or lunch bag or in my car.
The realities of life may prevent you from coming home and doing him on the kitchen counter, but a long hug is usually doable...maybe even with a playful pinch of his butt at the end. Sustained eye contact is almost as good. A touch of your hand on his cheek. Plopping down on his lap while he's watching tv or reading and planting a big wet one on him.
While you're at it, could you forward these ideas to my W?
Anyway, why the heck do these things not occur to me!!!!!! Jesus, you'd think... well, never mind.
Okay, now I need to go one step further with this. Last weekend, my H and I got into a very heated argument... the first one in many, many months. He said something at the time that really, really pissed me off, but on later reflection sent a chill down my spine.
He said to me that nothing has really changed re: sex, he's just not complaining anymore. And I told him, at the time, that if he really, truly believes that, and he wants to head back into that black pit we used to live in, he can have at it, but I'm not going back there with him.
Okay, so time passed and I got over being pissed. But still, he was trying to tell me something, and as is typical with him, he waits until he gets to boiling point and screams his feelings at me, which I then have a hard time honoring because he is screaming at me.
But beyond that. I have two things here I need to address. He feels that nothing has changed, and his rational for that is that he says that he does not have any say in when we have sex. I cannot, with my LD mind, process this.
There are so many times that he initiates sex that I really don't want to have sex. But because I know it is important to him, I make the mental and physical effort to not only have sex, but to enjoy it with him. But I certainly do not, after sex say, "well honey, in this instance you had all the say about us having sex because I didn't want to do it, but I did it anyway, for you, because I love you."
I don't say that because it seems very cruel and disrespectful to say something like that to someone you love.
Yet, he gets mad at me and says he has no say in when we have sex.
Can someone please try and explain to my LD mind what this means? Nopkins, are you out there? Is he feeling the way you feel?
I really don't get this because I'm not opposed to trying new or different things, doing oral things, using toys... I probably could initiate more, but I don't think you all really understand how hard that is for an LD person... it's like trying to eat a 7 course meal when you aren't hungry.
Something is going on with him, and like a typical LDer, I'm probably missing the signals. Can you clue me in? Am I heading in the right direction with doing things outside of the bedroom?
I'm sure others will chime in, but here's my take. I don't think your H is being real fair about this. Here, I think, is his thinking: 1. When he tries to initiate, and you say no, you are controlling. 2. When he tries to initiate, and you say yes, you are controlling. 3. When you initiate (I assume this happens sometimes) and he says yes, it is still you controlling, because it happened when you started the whole process. 4. When you initiate, and he says "no," well, Hell freezes over...right? Because he'll never say "no." Us HDers are like batteries, because we're Eveready, and we'll keep goin and goin. HOWEVER...this is the only situation in which he will ever consider himself in the controlling position. So, maybe you need to go through all these with him, see if he agrees. Then, later, you initiate and have him say no to you....and then, later in the day or week, have him initiate, and you say yes.
I don't know how often you guys have sex, or how mutually fun it is between you, but assuming that it's more than twice a month, and that it's above a 7 on a 1-10 scale, I think he's complaining too much. What I wouldn't give to have that!
The thing about sex and HDers is that the less we have it, the more we want it, and the more we have it, the more we want it. We want more. We want better. We want we want we want we want we want .... get it? Okay, here's another take. To a starving man, everything looks like a sandwich. I had sex twice last year with my W. Everything looks like boobs...except certain things that look like vaginas. But, you said that initiating sex to an LD person is like trying to eat a 7 course mean when you're not hungry? Well, after a 7 course meal, an HD person just wants more (after a few minutes for us older guys, anyway).
I know...it sounds like an addiction. But it's no more an addiction to sex than "LDness" is an addiction to non-sex.
Just remember what everyone has been saying about how us HDers feel loved, and how we want to show you that you are loved. It is by touch and by intimate contact.
And Corri, the women are almost always the "gatekeepers" in control of that. Just ask LDWife. You think any men would write in complaining about waking up with their wives astraddle them? And call it rape? There may be men out there who might feel that way, but it's unlikely they would tell anybody about it. Women = control, especially in the HD Male vs. LD Female context.
Corri, When I have said those types of things to H, what I was referring to was his lack of DESIRE for me. Nothing in his actions or words was telling me that he found me attractive and sexy.
He would have sex with me if I wanted it, and even initiate sex on his own. But I never had the sense that it was something that he was really wanting to do because he had been so "friend-ly" towards me. Absolutely nothing occurred between us that would have been inappropriate to play out between him and his mother. Isn't that a sick thought, lol.
Anyway, so I'd ask him for "passion" in our daily interactions..and that if I had more of that, I could live with less sex...and he'd give me a blank stare. He couldn't figure out what things I could be referring to. Passion was simply too generic a word for him; he needed specific examples. Now you are a woman, and therefore intelligent, so I know that I don't have to spell it out, but I will list a few things that come to mind:
1. Tell him he looks good. 2. Touch him in a way that NO ONE else in the world is "allowed" to. That is, squeeze his butt, let your hands drift during a hug, etc. 3. Make plans to make love..whisper in his ear that you want to make love that night. 4. Offer back rubs, if you have time. 5. Turn a Peck Kiss into a Passionate Kiss, just for fun. 6. Send him an email and flirt with him a little.
Most of these are not very time consuming and can be done in spite of kids running around, etc. The key in improving my own sex life was NOT that he be more available to me, but that he desire me. I know that you have written that you experience desire differently, but is there any way that you can fake it sometimes? Just to reassure him? Cause really that's what's going on. He is letting his mind get the best of him and convincing himself that you don't desire him. As an HD person that feels like the most colossal failure that could happen to you. I am sure that you have explained about your arousal then desire pattern, but I can guarantee that he takes it personally. Your H may not have made the emotional progress that you have made this last year, you know?
I'd love to wake up and find my h on top of me or touching me....
I refrain from touching him in such a manner awake or asleep becuase he doesn't always want me to.
so becuase he is the ld yes corri he is the one in control...matters not if he initiates sometimes...it's him that's in control. I can't say no because well then I'm still the looser.
what am I looking for?
what if h uped sex to a definite once a week and a heaven sent twice a week? would I be satisfied??
NOPE!!!
what do I want?
those extra hugs and kisses that don't lead to sex. those extra cuddles that are well just for the sake of it (I can deal with the fact that it makes me want more as long as on occassion I do get more)
touching, loving touch....
there just isn't enough of it around here...I get terribly annoyed when I hear wives complain that their h's are always groping them...try dealing with a h who very rarely if ever does and know that it isn't because you aren't physically attractive!
grrrr!
but on a more productive note...
as hairdog (I almost called you horndog) stated...try discovering h's second language and speak it. in addition try to include more touch in general in life.
Me, as a HD wife, founded myself in the same situation you were with your H, but reversed. My husband and I had a fight some time ago ( before we were in the current worse situation) where he was flabbergasted that I screamed at him that nothing have changed in the sex department and that I was not complaining because I didn't want to make matters worse by being unappreciative of his efforts, that I thought they were "baby steps" going in the right direction, so I didn't want to mess that up. Unfortunately those "baby steps" were a tremendous effort for my H. He was so offended that his efforts were not being recognized that he just stopped trying for a while.
My point is, he thought that his attempts at meeting me halfway were successful, but he was not meeting me halfway at all, and THAT was the problem. An example in frequency: I told him I would be soo happy if we could have sex about 6-7 times a week, which is my ideal, but I knew he just wouldn't bring himself to have sex more than maybe once a week, so that once a week would be our goal. I, unfortunately did not stated my real middle ground, which was 2 to 3 times a week. He thought that because he "made" himself to have sex with me once a week most times (it was more like 3 times a month on average really), that that was meeting me halfway..well, not hardly. My mistake was to agree with something I was not happy with to begin with and then see him "miss" some of the weekly sex dates we had. Why did I do such thing? because I didn't want to preassure my husband to give me what he was not ready to give and keep on complaining all the time when he didn't meet me in the 2-3 times range. I just thought that the once a week was much more workable for my H and I could work from that base, later, when the regularity was set and he was ready for a little upgrade to more, like the 2 or 3 times a week once in a while. Once a week was going to be an OK minimum. Well, I was very mistaken.
Maybe your H did this too, agreed to a very minimum, as a way to be loving and not pressure you over what you felt confortable. And if you add another aspect that is very important for a HD spouse, the lack of passion on those encounters, it just kills you. I am not saying you showed lack of passion, however think about it, maybe sometimes you did. My H did and that really counted in my head as a -1 against our minimun count. Maybe unfair, but it felt like that in my heart, it felt like I was being punished, not loved.
I did focus on 2 aspect of my problem : frequency and passion to write to you, the truth is there are many more, but these are the most clear in my mind, and I hope that maybe they help you to understand what could be going on in your husband's.
Quote: There are so many times that he initiates sex that I really don't want to have sex. But because I know it is important to him, I make the mental and physical effort to not only have sex, but to enjoy it with him. But I certainly do not, after sex say, "well honey, in this instance you had all the say about us having sex because I didn't want to do it, but I did it anyway, for you, because I love you."
I don't say that because it seems very cruel and disrespectful to say something like that to someone you love.
Excellent work biting your tongue on this one. While my W has never said this, I have perceived her telling me this with her body language after ML. And it HURTS. It sends to me the message that "I take pity on you" and it takes away about 99% of the enjoyment of what just happened. What I miss as much as the act of ML is the desire for me that my W used to have.
I don't know if he is looking for something special, or if he longs for the same thing I do. My wife and I are back to doing it 4 or 5 times a week. I am determined to keep it up, mechanical or not, until we get it right or go bust :-)
All I really want from the relationship in simple terms, is TO BE WANTED. That's it. If she wants me, all the rest of it falls into place. If she wants me, then rejection doesn't exist. The times we don't make love are because something else got in the way - not us - we didn't get in the way.
You can DO FOR your hubby all you want. He might appreciate it, but I doubt he will see it as you wanting him.
Have you ever felt like he didn't want you? I bet it doesn't happen frequently. HD'rs typically don't have a problem letting their spouses know they are wanted. They may fail in other parts of the relationship, but desire usually isn't it.
I hope that helps a little.
Good luck! -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
