Quote: Stay away from the idea of it being about your needs not being met. It is about both of you. You are on the same team. Don't draw a line between you. Consider dropping the LD/HD labels. The labels have a way of setting things up for "taking sides."
This certainly makes a lot of sense. However, really stuggle with this. I don't want this to be a tug-of-war but I often find myself slipping into the mind set of "what about my needs/wants" I'm really hoping a MC can help us both work through this.
Here a couple of things that might help you when you find yourself thinking in terms of "my needs." You're both experiencing a loss. When I was in your wife's shoes, I really wanted to be able to have sex with my H with all the passion, etc. that we had had before. But the desire that made that all so easy was overwhelmed by other things, mainly fatigue. So it's not just you that is feeling a sense of loss, even if she hasn't described it to you that way. If you can set things up at home and in counseling so that she can express that loss or even realize that she does feel a loss, then you'll be laying the problem on the table as an "our" problem not a you vs. me problem. (horrible, run on sentence.. ).
Her loss of desire isn't something she's doing to you, but is something that is happening to her. I know I wanted to just be able to flip a switch and have it all come back on, problem solved.
Whenever the "but what about ME?!" hits me, I usually feel pretty icky about myself. That icky feeling feels worse to me than how I feel about what I think I'm not getting. Did that make any sense? I remind myself of that when the "what about me's" hit. It's not that I just ignore what I want, but I don't feel resentful about not getting it. Most of all, I don't like feeling resentful and angry. So I choose not to feel it whenever possible. Not feeling resentful also makes it easier for me to express my desire for something in a more positive way to my H and to keep the team approach going.
Everyone is on the mend in the house W, S1, & D3 are all on antibiotics for various ailments. So things have improved immensely. Routine is returning to our lives. I'm seeing this as good and bad. Overall it's very good. However, it has been nice in an odd way that for the last couple of weeks we've had no R issues. We've been too busy/tired from being sick and caring for sick family members to care.
Quote: If you can set things up at home and in counseling so that she can express that loss or even realize that she does feel a loss, then you'll be laying the problem on the table as an "our" problem not a you vs. me problem.
W has started to express what she is missing from our M. This was great to hear. It's the first time that I felt that I wasn't the only one missing something. W started reading SSM a little before the kids woke up yesterday and stated that "It's describing me." She says that she feels the spark is missing. But unfortunately what used to give us that spark is largely impossible with kids. We can't just go out to dinner, away for a weekend on short notice, lay in bed on Saturday mornings or Sunday afternoons to watch a football game, etc.
Quote: Whenever the "but what about ME?!" hits me, I usually feel pretty icky about myself. That icky feeling feels worse to me than how I feel about what I think I'm not getting.
For me it surfaces as anger mostly. I'm angry at her for rejecting me. I'm angry that I feel cheated out of somehting very important to me. I'm angry at myself for feeling the way I do. So I try to occupy myself doing other things (housework, hobbies, etc.) But then W feels I'm ignoring her or becoming distant which only makes the whole situation worse. I'm hoping MC will help me deal with this cycle of feelings.
I have been trying to spend time so we could talk. Two days ago she was painting a Mickey Mouse on the kids bathroom wall, and instead of staying downstairs to pay the bills I did it on the bathroom floor so we could talk. It was nice, but once I was done I quickly got bored.
I see the biggest obstacle for us connecting is that we have about 3 hours a day to spend together after the kids are in bed before W goes to bed. So we have to pack together time, housework, meetings, etc. into that time.
I'm also an introvert, so I like to have some alone time to read, do a hobby, etc. I'm also have anal retentive tendencies, so bugs me if dishes lay around, the lawn isn't mowed, the bathroom gets to dirty, etc. So if things get into too much disarray, I feel I have to take care of that. All of this competes with the time my W needs for us to spend together, which makes us both unhappy.
Quote: W has started to express what she is missing from our M. This was great to hear. It's the first time that I felt that I wasn't the only one missing something. W started reading SSM a little before the kids woke up yesterday and stated that "It's describing me." She says that she feels the spark is missing. But unfortunately what used to give us that spark is largely impossible with kids. We can't just go out to dinner, away for a weekend on short notice, lay in bed on Saturday mornings or Sunday afternoons to watch a football game, etc.
Okay, some things, Are the kids on a schedule? Are they or you involved in too many activities? Do you have a family night.
You must have a weekly date!!! You must have an overnight at least every other month!! You must have a week away with out the kids!!!
The less time you take to reconnect the futher apart you will become. These times are when you find out what is bugging her and can correct it, so it does not fester.
3 HOURS A NIGHT- Most coulple average 15 minutes a night, so consider yourself lucky.
Work with other coulples to get away, trade babysiting time, be creative, I hate to tell it but your marriage that is at stake.
Seconding Poe here. Get creative, your marriage can't wait for your children to be older so you can find the time. It's also much easier to create the time now, than to find it after divorce. She's also WILLING to be involved adn solution oriented right now, she may not be a month or so down the road if IMMEDIATE repairs aren't made now. It's amazing how many options a person can find after the problem blows up completely, and before they couldn't find more than one or two if that. Options are there!! DIG DEEPER and DEEPER to find them.
Make friends with other couples with kids. Share diner, desserts, game night. Imparative to find people you trust with your children. Since you need to have things tidy, can you trade a friend/neighbor to do it.
I often tell my children that I'm busy kissing their dad right now, and I will help them in a moment. I did this even when they were really little. I also have set up videos, rented or bought a new one, just to sneak some private time with H. We also will sneak off for private time if we see the children are engrossed with a game/movie activity. I will tell the children that daddy and I need some quiet alone time, for my now five yr old, I will set a timer (3 min, 5min, 30min) to let him know when to expect us to be available again. Obviously your children need to be in a safe enviroment and it depends on your children's dispositions, what will work. Benign neglect is a wonderful and necessary concept. Learn to be sneaky with eachother when the kids aren't looking. Recognise that the money spent on child care are huge investments in mariage and will ALWAYS be less expensive than lawyers, seperate households, and the quality of life is also significantly better. If spending the money will jepordise the roof over your heads and groceries, go the barter or simplification routes. Dates are a necesity not a luxury, but they don't have to cost much. Yes, some of the easy spontinaity is gone for a while, so planning must take it's place for a season.
Yup, you've got kids...the playing field has changed. There simply isn't enough time to do everything the way you used to do it. Time to decide what has to be done, what doesn't have to be done, what can slide or doesn't have to be done quite so often or so thoroughly, what is really important and what do you really want to be spending your time on. Sorry, there is no way around it.
Quote: W has started to express what she is missing from our M. This was great to hear. It's the first time that I felt that I wasn't the only one missing something.
Something I read the other day about what happens after kids enter the home is relevant here. If you're feeling overwhelmed, you don't have any time for yourself, your needs aren't being met, resentful, etc.....you can pretty much assume your spouse is feeling the same way.
Quote: For me it surfaces as anger mostly. I'm angry at her for rejecting me. I'm angry that I feel cheated out of somehting very important to me. I'm angry at myself for feeling the way I do. So I try to occupy myself doing other things (housework, hobbies, etc.) But then W feels I'm ignoring her or becoming distant which only makes the whole situation worse.
Talk about your feelings with your W. Tell her what you've said here. You can even start out with saying you're going to talk about some feelings that may sound like you're blaming her, but that you take responsibility for your own feelings. You just want to share with her what is going on with you, see if she has some things to share with you, and see if the two of you together can come up with some solutions .
Talking about bad feelings with our spouses isn't a bad thing. Avoiding it usually causes more problems. The other problems occur mostly from how we talk about our feelings, when we hold them responsible for our feelings or blame them, when it just becomes a vent session. Then, they are more likely to become defensive. Then you're on opposite sides. Defuse the situation in the beginning to prevent the defensiveness from arising.
Quote: There simply isn't enough time to do everything the way you used to do it. Time to decide what has to be done, what doesn't have to be done, what can slide or doesn't have to be done quite so often or so thoroughly, what is really important and what do you really want to be spending your time on. Sorry, there is no way around it.
I believe this is really the root of our problem.
Quote: Talk about your feelings with your W. Tell her what you've said here. You can even start out with saying you're going to talk about some feelings that may sound like you're blaming her, but that you take responsibility for your own feelings. You just want to share with her what is going on with you, see if she has some things to share with you, and see if the two of you together can come up with some solutions .
We have our first MC session on Thursday. I'm hoping that this will open the door for us to figure this whole mess out. I'll give an update after Thurs.
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Yup, you've got kids...the playing field has changed. There simply isn't enough time to do everything the way you used to do it. Time to decide what has to be done, what doesn't have to be done, what can slide or doesn't have to be done quite so often or so thoroughly, what is really important and what do you really want to be spending your time on. Sorry, there is no way around it. 