Advice Please

[farfromhome]

Gday All

For those that have followed my sitch I think I am at a stage where I am staring at an abyss that I do not know how to get either of us to stand back from. I am drafting a letter at the moment that will virtually end my relationship with my wife.

I look back and I dont know how I came to this point so quickly. This time last week things were going well and i thought that we were getting to a good place.

My sitch is a little bit different in that while my wife and I reconciled I am still living in a seperate country from her. I am trying to get a business going in India that If it works will make a lot of money.

Well the deteriation in our sitch started from what I can see about 1 week ago and as our primary issues before it seems to be all about money. It has been hard while I have been over here - it has taken much longer that what I had ever planned to get the money together for the business (this while close is still not finalised). I have offered a few timnes to throw it in and come home but she has at all times said to stay over here and that I have her support.

Anyway I had on getting back together said I would take on her debts that she had accumukated through the seperation (over 200,000) but it would require the business here to take off. Saying this I have managed to borrow about 60000 off frienbs and family to give to her over the last three months but it now appears to be all gone and from what I see not many of her debts have been paid off.

Anyway over the last week she has been angrier about the money for her debts and she has got her into the position of being dead broke again. This resulted in me borrowing another 7000 for her on the weekend that I thought would make her happy. I have told her she only needs to wait another few weeks and all of the other financial problenms would be gone.

So the crux of our problem is that she has managed (as I found out today) to overdraw her account by 2000 in the last week so apparantly the money I sent her will be gone by the end if the week (this I has hoped would last until the end of this month). So today when I called her she stated that she needed more money by the end of this week.

So the crux if it is that I have no more money to give her. I can borrow off family but she has said that I cant do this. Basically she believes I have stashed money - I have this confirmation from her father and her step father - and that I am deliberately not giving it too her to control her.

I am at the end of my ability to cope with her like this. I have done everything to help her and to give her as good a life as I can. Despite her craving for 'financial' independance she has refused to do even the most basic things like get a job. Her idea of independance is to live her 'cafe culture lifestyle' without ever having to do anything herself. It is not as of she has a hard life - she lives in a very expensive rental property and drives a luxury sports car and manages to eat out every night.

So where I am is that she has 'demanded' that i provde her more money. I do not have more money to provide her. She says that I am hiding money from her and am using this to control her. Today we had three phonecalls all of which ended up with her yelling and hanging up on me. As she hung up the last time I managed to yell in the words "Its Finished'.

I really dont know what to do now, I really feel just like throwing my hands up and walking away from all of this. I have to make a decision quickly as I have just finalied an aditional 60000 through refinancing our properties which will be ready to go by the end of the week- this was going to go to her.

Needless to say I dont want this to proceed in the current climate

Anyway my plan tomorrow is to all her and see what her frame of mind is. My strong feeling is that it will be more of today. If this is the case I will then send her a letter by fax which basically say I take no more responsibility for her position - which will put us back to where we were 6 months ago.

I would really appreciate any thoughts or advice here. I do care about this woman enorously but I cant go like we are at the moment.

Help

Andrew

[missy10]

Farfromhome - Haven't posted to you in a while but OH MY GOSH . . . you need to stop this rollercoaster! Why do you keep giving in to her financially? To me that is ludicrous! She has you right where she wants you in my opinion. I don't mean to be harsh here but it appears she doesn't want the marriage - she wants you to pay and pay dearly. She is right in that you can't keep borrowing from every Tom, Dick and Harry - she is going through that money like water! Personally, I think she needs a hard dose of reality!

I hope I didn't hurt your feelings - I know how tough it has to be to try and make it work but I think you have done more than your share!

Missy

[hacker]

Andrew,

Do you think that maybe she has a psychological problem with compulsive spending? It seems that she has a very hard time budgeting and keeping enough money around for emergencies. I know that sometimes, when I was feeling down and the account had money in it, I had a tendency to buy things to raise up my spirits even though I really couldn't afford them. It took a lot of discipline to truly refocus my happiness on spiritual peace rather than material things.

I don't know if her father and step-father are aware of her spending sprees. Even if you were withholding money from her, it seems to me that she's currently living a life she simply cannot afford. From the looks of it, there is financial irresponsibility there. Just because you have access to money doesn't mean that you have to spend it all right away.

Another possibility is that she may be gambling with the money and losing. Is gambling available where she is? I just find it odd that so much money can disappear so quickly without seeing any new significant purchases.

Is she currently in counseling? Is this something the both of you could bring up? Sounds to me like a mountain of debt is accumulating and, one day, it will come back to haunt both of you. You obviously sound as if you want to put your marriage ahead of financial wealth. On the other hand, she seems to think that the fruits of financial wealth is more important than the marriage.

Don't throw in the towel just yet but see if you can get her family to see the expenses she has had over the course of the sitch. They may be able to convince her to get help for this compulsive behavior. Obviously, she hasn't resolved all of her issues since she is looking for happiness in a lavish lifestyle rather than in day-to-day life.

[farfromhome]

Hi Missy

Y&our not hurting my feelings by any means. I have all of those thoughts that you have highlighted and yes I do think she needs that dose of reality.

Maybe I should have put my foot down earlier. I am not a money drivern person, yes I like to do what I do but money has never been my main driver. If I have it she is welcome to it but I just cant take the accusations that I am holding it from her. For all the difficulites in India I have always 'knon' that it would come off. if it works I will never have to worry about money again - so I didnt mind running uo a bit of debt because I knew I could clear it. It was never the money I was just happy that we had seemed to fix our problems up.

I dont know about her not wanting the marriage, I really dont. Some times over the lsat few nonths I have heard the absolute honesty bin her voice about moving ahead but then this evil witch raises her head.

Have I done my share - I dont know. I have made so many mistakes in the past but I have got to a stage that if this is to be the way it is to be then so be it for where we are at the moment.

Its funny at the moment I dont feel much of anything. No anger no real upset just resignation to it all. Had a few drinks with my partner over here tonight and he said more or less what you said. He hs watch this thing get to me over the last year and a half.

Thanks missy for your post.

Andrew

[farfromhome]

Hi Charles

I dont know what it is with her spending, she is bipolar - whioch was one of the things that caused problems through our seperation. If she is messing around with her medication then this coulod explain her irrational behaviour over the last week.

But saying that we are the broubd owners of over 1000 dollars worth of plants, more then thatv in 'crystals' and she has a few new outfits.

Her family is very much aware of her abiility to budget to the extent that her mother and step father dont have much to do with her anymore although I tried to broker a peace here. I dont think gambling in in the picture - she has never displayed any signs of this before.

She has a docdtore that she sees in regards to her medical problem, but she is very defeinsice about me bringing up her medical condition. We need counselling, I can see that, but it is hard when we are this far apart, although we were going to see someone when I got back to Australia.

Mate Finacial wealth comes and goes - I have learnt that more then anything over the last 18 months. Honestly the day we sign the 'sale' document over here I become a multi millionaire and if it works in line with the pessimistic proojections we have done then i will have more money the I could hope to spend in a life time. My driver here has never been money, it never has. I have a chance to build something that brings together all of my experiances over the last 20 years and this has always been a bigger challenge then money. I am a pretty simple guy - I just want to be able to relax in a beach at the end of this and not have to worry about things and be able to do things like go back to uni, teach, etc.

I ahvent thrown in the towel but there is only so much that I can do. I love her and want to give her whatever I can. I csan teve see the lavish lifestyle - I dont know what she does with it.

Anyway mate many thanks for your thoughts I really appreciate them.

Andrew

[kml]

Andrew -
you have to ask yourself why you trusted your W to manage this money when you know she's bipolar and spends when she's manic?

She's not capable right now of managing money - you wouldn't expect her to if she was schizophrenic, would you?

I suggest you arrange for some responsible person there to pay your bills for her, give her a (small) allowance for going out to eat, arrange for a certain amount of credit at the grocer's every week, and close the joint checking account. Ignore her paranoid rantings. Don't get sucked into arguing with her when she is mentally ill. Ask her family if they can help get her back on her meds/ back in to see her psychiatrist.

Ellie

[farfromhome]

Hi Ellie

I trusted her because that is my nature. I wanted to believe her she told me that the money was going to pay back debts but now I am not so sure.

She is actually diagnosed as schizo affective so she has both of them (schizoprenia and bipolar) but btu they are udner control with her medication which she is trying to get off under the supervision of her doctor.

Any move to bring in a third aprty in regards to money is the death knell of the marriage and while the points that you have made are all excellent it would end everything..

I dont want to argye with her. I honestly dont know if this is a result of her illness coupled with stress. I know that I have no hope of getting her to see an alternative point of view.

Its hard to get her family involved. Her relationship with her mother and step father has completely broken down due to their 'support' of me through the seperation. Her father knows that if he gets involved then she will 'block' him out as well. She has no real relationship with her step mother.

I really dont know if this is a result of her medication but it would explain a bit. But I am not going to jump to this conclusion. Maybe it is just a result of stress, maybe this is who she really is. I just dont know.

Thanks for the thoughts

Andrew

[farfromhome]

Hi All

Well I think things will come to a head today. In all I would just like to let it lie for a few days and let her make contact with me. But there is one element that I need to work with in that we were going to refinance against properties to get some money to pay off her debts. One of them includes her legal bill (22000) and I think that if I do this then she will strat the legal dance again.

So I think I need to bring this to a head fairly quickly. We are back to her decisions, her outcomes and her consequences. The following is a letter I intend to send her if our phone call goes bad today.

I would really appreciate any feedback that I can get off people.

My Dearest XXXXX

I am sorry that I am writing this letter but I have that feeling that we are standing at an abyss that we cannot find a way of stepping back from.

Basically you have given me an ultimatum that I have no means of meeting. There exists no way that I am able to arrange for more money in the conditions that you have set, that is without borrowing it from someone. I am to the stage where I am unable to handle talking to you on the phone any longer. You have convinced yourself that I a lying when I explain my circumstances to you here. You are not open to any explanations or appear to have any open frame of mind at all. So we have brought ourselves back again to this point.. By the way I have it conformed by three different people that you are saying that I am hiding money from you.

You will never understand or know the depth of my feelings for you. When you asked to see me that day at XXXXXX I had no intention of a relationship with you at that time, I was sure that you wanted another argument with me and as I said I almost did not go to meet you. With what we had been through I was sure that you had no desire for any sort of future with me. In the end I had moved on with my life but on that day I saw an absolute honesty inside of you that you wanted to move forward together. When I saw you that day and saw your feelings I understood what I felt for you and that I wanted to try again.

You like to say repeatedly that I broke a promise to you regards to getting money sorted out. But I did remember telling you at the time that I couldnt do anything until the money from the business came in. It hasnt and I have got to the stage where I dont care if you believe me or not anymore about this. I know it is the truth and that is all that I care about now.

Saying all this I have realised that since August over 60,000 dollars has been sent to you. I am finding it hard to believe that you have managed to go through all of this but I believed you when you said that you have. I have at no time asked you to account for any of this because I was working on trying to get my trust back in you. I am sorry but I do not trust you with money anymore, you have not displayed any ability to manage or control it. You seem to be wrapped up with an anomaly that happened when I was abandoned in Japan and was under enormous stress, however I still dont understand how you managed to increase the amounts written in bad cheques from 200 to 800 in three days and still have no food.

You like reminding me continuously of broken promises, if you take away your belief that I am being dishonest about having money (and think about it would I organise to lend my mothers Christmas money to you if I had money) there is not much that you could accuse me of. Against this I have a list of your broken promises from the last few months from you, but in our relationship as it stands these seem to not mean anything. You will of course deny them (you never do anything wrong hey) but here are a few:

· In august you promised that you would continue with the job for XXXXXXX and you had put down 2000 a month as income from that. I note that you left this job immediately.
· In August you promised that you would move into your parents house to save money until the business worked here. This promise was broken in September.
· In August you promised to come over to India for a bit. This promise was broken in September.

I dont list these things down they just popped to mind and I am sure there are others there as well. But as seems to follow a general rule while I can do no right you have never made a mistake. One of our basic problems is that while I have accepted blame in myself for my contribution to our marriage problems you have failed to do so. I see that it is much easier for you to place blame on someone else instead of looking into yourself. You told me once that you treated me like a dog at times and that you knew how to get me to do what you wanted. Well this is the behaviour I am noticing here and I do not find this acceptable anymore.

Everything I have been able to get my hands on has gone to you.

Well I do not have anything else to say in regards to us. You have pushed me to this point and I regret that we have reached here. The next move is up to you, I do love you and I dont think that will stop but I cant be with someone who is starting to make me feel miserable. I am happy to live my life without you now, it is hard to say this but it is a realisation I have come to over the last few days. If you have the courage to do so why dont you just ask the question to yourself -What if he is telling the truth- and then ask yourself how I would be feeling following your behaviour lately. I don’t know if you have it in you to do this.

I guess there are some mechanics that need to be worked out. I am half expecting to get another one of those legal letters form you and if that is the path you chose then so be it. I will call you in Friday to work through these issues. In this circumstance I cant see why we should go ahead with the loan excepting to pay back the people that have loaned money to you over the last few months but we can talk about this on Friday. If you want to keep trying together then let me know and we will but we will have to do it together and not like it is at the moment. Whatever happens I will not abandon you. I will get back in contact when I get some access to money and work out something to help you live.

Anyway I would really appreciate your feedback.

Andrew

[missy10]

Farfromhome: Not a bad letter but a bit too lengthy - I think you will lose her in it - she will get half way through and rip it up. I would suggest taking out the "list of lies" - you are laying blame there and it will not help your situation at all. I would go with the first 2 paragraphs and the last paragraph. The middle is more accusations - as much as yes they exist and are there - putting them in writing I don't believe is necessary.

Okay - what are some other opinions?

Missy

[SuitedUp]

Hi Andrew,

For my 2 cents, I'd go completely dark if I were you. No calls and definately no faxes unless you are 100% definate that is what you want.

It's been a hot week for you and you both need time to cool down. I feel and sympathise with you as you have been providing for her both for too long and too much.

Your W needs to accept responsibility and to make changes. I would not expect that her medical condition limits her from seeing what her options are. It's either to change or to face reality and it doesn't sound like she's anywhere near there despite her commitment to trying again.

My W was the same as yours in the sense that she wanted more and when I gave more, she wanted even more. She was lazy, worked part time and while we didn't blow $200k, the S cost us enough. Since we have been back together, W has increased her hours to 4 full days a week and has earnt a promotion that we worked together to help her achieve. I had never at any point hinted or said outright "you should do something about that", she just saw the need. The point of what I am saying here is that until I stopped giving, W didn't stop taking and when she was starved to the point of having to cut a deal to retain her solicitors services, reality hit when W's settlement figure depended solely upon the hours her solicitor racked up.

I honestly thought that your solution of having her as an salaried employee was good enough. She is obviously not ready to accept that responsibility and you have no other choice that I can see other than to dispense tuff love.

You need to accept responsibility that in your kindness, you have been contributing to the problem. When you have done that, you need to admit that it has been a failure and implement another plan. The fact that your W believes you have stashed cash indicates there are trust issues and it is so early in the recovery of your M to expect that these issues can be fixed overnight. You obviously can't convince her otherwise so stop trying. By defending it all the time it seems you just perpetuate the suspicion.

My advise is that you don't cut her off but to support her on what you believe is reasonable and affordible for YOU. If W objects as you would expect, you need to tell her that is the most you can afford and it is up to her to make the most of it. Letting go of the cafe lifestyle and all the trappings will be hard but she has to do it.

Your W has pushed the M to the virtual brink and has come back. I would expect that she feels like crap right now and needs to wallow in her own doing.

Sorry for the 2x4 but I hope I hit you a beauty.

Suit