Last night after a good day with my H, we were in bed together at the same time, which rarely happens now. As I was cuddling with H, I started to touch him, but not with the intention to hav sex, but just to have some nice "gropping", he is ok with it, he never complaints, and I always make sure I ask him before I do anything, just to make sure I am not making him unconfortable. Well we were talking, everyting was ok and then the following dialoge took place: Me: "Do you like how I am touching you?" Husband: "sometimes" Me: "please tell me more, when? Husband: silence Me: "But how can I know when you are liking it?" Husband: "By my reaction"
(I am thinking ...he doesn'react! ever!, what is he talking about...he normally ignores my touches completely as if nothing was happening) Me: "Your reaction? could you tell me more? Like what reaction?" Husband : "I don't know"
Me: " I am sure you know, but obviously I am missing the sign completely..can you tell me when you are liking it?....maybe a "magic word"?
Husband: Giggles.. Me : Please think, that way I will know . Husband : Silence Me: Getting upset...." What reaction are you talking about , even when we make love, you just lay in there with a blank stare in your face (then I did a representation of him on his back, looking stray to the cealing with a blank face) Husband: "You are getting worked up..just go to sleep (in a gentle voice)"
Needless to say, I turned around in bed, went to the fardest edge of the bed, so I wouldn't touch him and forced myself to sleep, fighting my tears of frustration, thinking he has the key for making our sex life better not just for me , but specially for himself, since I would make sure I do all the stuff he likes the most, making sure he is really into it before we go anywhere, but Noooooo, he won't tell me anything!.
Sometimes I think I marry someone that has no idea about sex, and I am not saying he is a bad lover, on the contrary, he is great.....on the technicality of it. But here is the problem, if I ask him what HE likes, he is unable to answer me. Anything that has to do with his pleasure, he is completely unknowlegable or unwilling to share with me, like he is a machine, that knows what to do to please the other person, but has no clue about his own body and what gives him pleasure. It is almost like he shuts down when we make love, like he is enduring this task and his head is someplace else, no passion, no expression, nothing.
This hurts me more than the lack of sex, because when we have any, the man I just described above is what I get and who wants that anyway. I am not happy at having a inflatable husband you know?
This morning I woked up so worned out, extremely depressed. He was walking around the house naked, like he always does, but instead of feeling that normal stir in my body and nice little thoughts of appreciation to his form, I felt angry at the sight of his body. A little later, when he went to hug me, I couldn't stand his touch...it literally revolted me.
I really don't have any really good words of advcice. But just wanted you to know I know exactly how you feel. My W treats me a lot the same. Its almost like its all my fault that I enjoy making love, being touched. The thing I want most of all is to be desired. anyway enough about me. Keep your chin up.
MSM, My heart really went out to you when I read your post. I didn't feel well when I went to bed (I feel a cold coming on!) and I woke up at 1:00 AM so here I am on the computer in the middle of the night. When I read this my heart hurt for you. It is so very hard to be rejected by your lover. My H and I are having LD/HD problems due to illness/medication and that is the pits but years ago I was married to my first husband and he flat out rejected me sexually AFTER we got married. Before was just fine and afterwards he said sex would make me dirty. Talk about give an 18 year old girl head problems! When I read your post I was taken back 25 years. The wounds were deep and left lasting scars. I begged him to seek help and he refused. We divorced shortly after my 20th birthday.
Quote: A little later, when he went to hug me, I couldn't stand his touch...it literally revolted me.
Before we divorced his touch literally made me ill. I can remember him wanting to have sex one morning (this after rejecting me the night before and the entire week before) I submitted to his attentions and afterwards got into a tub and felt like a shell shocked person. He was hovering over me and all I wanted to do was cry. This was about 4 months before I got the courage up to leave.
Quote: But here is the problem, if I ask him what HE likes, he is unable to answer me. Anything that has to do with his pleasure, he is completely unknowlegable or unwilling to share with me, like he is a machine, that knows what to do to please the other person, but has no clue about his own body and what gives him pleasure. It is almost like he shuts down when we make love, like he is enduring this task and his head is someplace else, no passion, no expression, nothing.
Have you been successful in getting him to read SSM? It sounds as if he does totally shut down sexually like it is something bad instead of good. My ex's mother had ran off and left his father when he was 12 and then the father died when he was just barely 18. His mother was not a lady if you get my drift and my ex said that if we had sex it would make me dirty like her. I tried to get him to see a counselor with me but he refused and said I was a nympo. Hardly. I do have a very normal sex drive and the guy I married 3 years later thought it was great!
I wish I could give you a big hug because I know how you feel. Is he open to seeing a counselor with you? It sounds as if he doesn't feel like he is worthy of love, affection and pleasure. He can on occasion give you pleasure but not really receive it for himself. If that correct?
I will be thinking about you and praying for you today.
Neicie, You are wonderful. Thank you , from the bottom of my heart.
This situation is so incredible hurtful that I have been wishing to be with my Mom........., not to talk to her about this problem or ask for her advice, but for me to run to her embrace and just let myself be held, be conforted by her, just hug her and let her unconditional love hold me there, safe. I didn't have a clue why I would close my eyes and just wish my mother was with me. Then I realized that the hurt I feel runs so deep, that I feel helpless, like a child again, running to my mother's arms, because she would make all the pain go away. It makes me marvel at the knowledge that no matter how old you are, how sophisticated and self reliant, your mother is always your mother, and her love can always make you feel better.
Unfortunately my mother is in another country, thousands and thousands of miles away, and I can't just go to visit her over a weekend. So, just long phone conversations are my only consolation.
It is so weird to feel so helpless, specially me. I mean, I think of all I have done in this life, some amazing accomplishments that would make many people proud. they made me quite sure that I was strong and tough, that I could overcome anything. However this situation made me as helpless as a little baby.
Yesterday I was browsing through the site and I saw the url that Corri found, the one about sexual aversion and it made me jump when I read how it developed, that from an OK situation, if negative reinforcement keep hapenning, the situation becomes impossible. The mind is wired to look for pleasure and avoid pain and if pain is there all the time, then your mind will make you avoid the situation at all cost, make you, in my own situation "revolted at the sight of him". Well, I am not to go from a HD woman to one that has aversion to sex and I was so grateful that Corri placed that link there, because I will not allow this problem to be worse.
As soon as I got home yesterday, I went and hugged my H. I was still very hurt and angry and did not wanted to do it. He knew from the morning that there was something very wrong with my behavior, since I avoided his touch in a very obvious way (Which I NEVER do), I mean, not even when I am fighing with him. He was so very very attentive and gave me all his afternoon, hold me until I was OK. I still feel a bit weird with him, but I will not willingly get pain linked to touching him. I don't need any more difficulties on this sitch.
I have talked to him about reading the SSM book and he said he would, but everytime I am going to ask him to read it, I get so nervious, so worked up. I start getting even angry because in my head I anticipate a negative, an "Oh, just relax, I don't need to read anything" I am trying to control myself a bit more, not to have so much expectations as far as the book is concerned, because it can be a perfect opportunity for a huge fight. I need to be more in charge of my feelings, then I will do it. I am thinking over Thanksgiving weekend, after we are all relax and stuffed with turkey.
Just so you know, CeMar found that link. I just thought it was so powerful that it needed a link of its own. So ALL credit goes to CeMar.
As far as your H goes, from the way you write, it seems to me that he has the upper hand when it comes to boundary setting in your family. Meaning, he is almost working in a parental capacity with you, rather than the two of you being equal partners.
I agree that nagging him about the book will not get him to read it or absorb it, but I do think you need to re-establish yourself as a force to be reckoned with in your relationship. I think you need to make it very clear to him, in no uncertain terms, that the status of your physical relationship to you is very hurtful and intolerable, and as a couple, the two of you need to find a resolution to it.
If he starts throwing the BS at you about his job, his depression, his 'don't worry, I'll try, it'll get better,' you must stand your ground. You must make it very clear to him that this is a boundary you will NOT allow him to violate. Give him one week to think about it. Tell him you are willing to go to therapy, you are willing to work through the book with him, you are willing to do whatever, but that you expect an action plan to begin on x date, and with the agreement that the two of you will follow it.
Tell him if he doesn't feel he can do this, to let you know in a week. If he starts giving you the run around, move out of the bedroom and start deciding what it is you want to do with the rest of your life.
You waffling on this subject is the very thing that is allowing him to not constructively address this problem. If it gets to the point that you feel you need to leave him, you will have to leave knowing it is the best move for YOU, not because you think it will get him to wake up and smell the coffee.
Boundaries are critical in marriages. If you do not draw one with him, you will continue to bleed over the subject until you finally give up all together.
Yeah, you could loose your marriage over this. But better for you to loose your marriage than to loose your spirit and your soul.
I thought Corri had some really good points in her reply to you. First off, her point about having boundaries. In my situation, I avoided having clear boundaries with my H because I would second-guess myself constantly. I'd ask myself, "Am I asking for too much? Am I being too demanding? Could it be unreasonable for me to expect more sex?" etc. My self-doubt kept me from having the confidence to draw the line in the sand. Please don't make the same mistake I did - if you ARE having doubt about whether you are being unreasonable, let me tell you - you're not.
Second, let me reiterate what Corri said - don't move out in an attempt to "wake your H up". I did, and my H didn't. ;p Move out because YOU need to - that way, you will have fewer expectations for your H.
As an aside, I also looked at the sexual aversion link and applied it to my experience as a HD wife with a LD husband. After countless rejections, it became harder and harder for me to initiate sex, and when I did, it was gingerly and with the full expectation of being turned down yet again. I think that it will be very hard for me to overcome this "programming" and become the person I used to be - a person who didn't think twice about sharing her passion freely with her partner.
I hope that you and your H can work together, perhaps with a counselor (?), to keep you from being damaged in the same way.
MSM, Just wanted to check on you and see if you were feeling better. I know that you had felt pretty down and wanted to let you know that I am thinking about you and hoping that your situation was better this week.
Well, thinks are not moving at all. In fact I had another fight with him, and I am more and more desilusioned about the whole marriage thing, at least to this man.
Unfortunately I put too many spectations to our times together, always thinking that time together should help our situation and maybe a miracle will happen and my H will want to be with me, be attentive, touch me. Well, after most of the long Thanksgiving weekend ended with just about no time spend together and obviosly no sex, I started getting sooooo angry again. I realized this, so rather than keep it in and let it explode in any random moment, I desided to go an ask for my husband help on this matter. To ask him if he could help me with this situation where I get so angry at him, I know it was stupid, but I thought he can offer some sort of solution, since the anger was mainly for our sexless marriage, but ALSO because he can be so inconsiderate and think that he can just not do anything around the house, or for me, like talk to me! or anything that shows that he is not taking me for granted and it is fine with me (Hell no!). I thought if he can just understand that his inconsideration in many aspects are adding to the problem and that I didn't want to be angry at him and nag or scream. Instead, he got so defensive that as soon as the conversation started he went on autopilot, I don't even think he really understood what I was saying. In the end we were screaming at each other, and I ended up crying for 2 hours in the bathroom.
I know saying put boundaries sounds like an easy think to do, but see? he doesn't react well to presures, the truth is everytime I say we need a date when things start being worked out or a specific plan of action, You have not idea how he reacts. He tells me that the more I presure him, the worse this gets, the least he wants to touch me, etc. So I can say I will do this and the other and short of me leaving him, he will not move a finger, since I am adding to the problem, which is depression and stress.
Maybe some people here can't understant this, but I don't want to leave my husband.
I also don't want to have such a passionless marriage, I ask myself then, should I just follow the book advice and just take care of myself and be nice to him? The problem is that everytime I try, I am sooo faking it, it is not real and it always backfires. I am not relax, I am not happy with the stuff that I am "obligated" to do , like : go out with you friends, get a hobby. I already have those, and every moment I spend doing them, I can't stop thinking about this situation, so is not use. If I try to be nice to him, which I always do anyway, Haft the time I fell taken advantage of and resentful. In the end : Angry. Angry at him, angry at my innability to influence him, angry at me for not being able to be calm, angry at everything. It is exausting.
I am waiting on him getting a new job, but that can take months, given the tech market now. He told me he will read the book, but has not even open it yet.
I am still as sad as I was before. I often wonder if this is what a marriage is , you know? just a roommate that barely acknowledge your presence and that just "takes" what you give him ( I mean a kiss or a hug, since he doesn't stop me , however he doesn't innitiate either). This passionless time spend in the same location with very little interaction ?
I am thinking I will wait until the job thing and if after that nothing happends, even though I don't want to leave my husband, I think I will have to.
MSM I am sorry you had a weekend. It seems like the more we "chase" them the faster they run.
A few weeks ago I told my H I was through "chasing" him and that I was going to change my ways because I certainly couldn't change his. He said he didn't want me to change! I told him that being loving towards him when he acted so disinterested was really wearing on my and for my own self preservation I WAS going to change!
I had reached a point to where I wanted and did kind of shut down on him. Because of his Chrone's I then feel guilty because I know some of the way he is is motivated by feeling bad most of the time.
On the other hand I have let him know that I have needs too! Possibly if you quit "chasing" him and go about your business he might take notice. For me this is being pleasant when he talks to me but not really entering into conversations with him. I almost avoid him and he certainly isn't used to that! I don't fuss over him like I normally do - I still cook for him and all of that stuff - I do my JOB FUNCTION as a wife but what I do he could hire a maid/cook to do. I cease being his loving wife. I am just a person in the house.
Most of the time I have noticed people like your husband and mine really do notice when we shut down. Suddenly they want to know what is going on and why we are different. It takes fortitude and determination to remain pleasant but distant.
It has worked for me with a degree of success. I would prefer it never to be that way but that is sometimes the only way my H took me for serious. As long as I would keep "chasing" after him he would keep running.
When I stopped running he was looking behind himself to see what I was up to!
I hope that your day goes better. Keep your chin up. You may be able to reach him when he thinks that there is a possiblity that you won't always be there chasing after him. If you can't reach him maybe you will have to leave. If that doesn't reach him you will know then and can move on with your life with someone who will appreaciate your loving giving nature instead of taking advantage of it.
I started yesterday changing my behavior as far as my H is concerned. Not very drastic changes, like moving out of the bedroom or stoping taking to kim or something of the sort.
Actually I started yesterday with very small changes and I was surprise the results I got.
I stayed at work late, just left a voice message at home telling him I'll be late one hour or so. I NEVER do that without an ahead of time plan, so he knows for days and only on big projects. I do this on my own, since one time he made me the best dinner and I was 2 hours late. Also I just said no when he asked if I would make him some coffee.
I know those examples seem silly, but I am too much of a sucker and overly polite and considerate sometimes. I am sure he thinks I am a push over at this point, instead of just plain considerate, but no more.
Although little no's, his behavior did have a change. I got a lot of attention when I got home and then with the coffee thing, I got "bribbed" to do it: he did all sorts of things I always joke about, like neck kisses, which I found soo ticklish they make me giggle or the old fashion but grab. I though, I will make his coffee only when I am satisfied with all the affection and playfullness, then and only then I will move a finger, just because I believe in positive reinforcement. It worked! and we ended up laughing.
It has been so long that we were both so relax and just enyoing each other. It makes me wonder is this can actually work! At least I have some hope now.
