Hi LL, You never will feel 100% sure the OW is not hiding behind the bushes, it is still in the back of my mind but it is very faint now. I really like your quote at the end of the post about not throwing the whole relationship away because it is damaged. I remember the first year back together OW called I was devestated I couldn't believe it we had been back in relationship for 6 months. I realized that when I decided to take him back I would have lots of debris that would need to be cleared up. I said to him the next morning why do you think you have to keep this person hanging on. Are you afraid I am going to get rid of you. I'm not I love you I want you to be apart of the family IM NOT GOING ANYWHERE. H said this is my home this is were I want to be. I think these MLC'ers are afraid to be alone for even a second. Keep DBing you obviously are good at that you got him home. If he didn't want to be there he wouldn't be. Your job is easy all you have to do is DB when you are relating to him and just enjoy your like. Just my thoughts Take care Loretta
Optimist....do you have the number he called you from? You may need to lovingly confront him....no accusations, just ask outright...where did he call you from? Tell him you saw the number on caller id and are confused and a bit upset. You don't want to make a big thing out of it..but you need to know. Tell him you'd like to work on some solutions to make you feel more at ease when he gets "called out" to work at odd times like that...make it seem to be all about YOU and YOUR feelings...not him and his behaviour. It's hard, but you can do it.
OK, Pam and Colleen. Here is my list of positives:
(homework from teacher)
1. Early dawn 2. We spent most of the day together (from 9 am)
3. He offered to take us with him to work (daughter refused, she was tired)
4. Called from work
5. Called on way back to ask me if I wanted a mocha from Starbucks
6. My BB pals held my hand through the dark hours
And poem that Pam reminded me totally applies to me now:
Quote:
Quote: Quote:
Sos Mar sceach faoi thaitint na gaoithe Ta m'anam a lubadh anocht Thiar na thoir, nil didean Mar is poll im cheann gach smaoineamh Trina luann an ghaoth gan sos
Like a tree urged by the wind
My soul sways tonight
West nor east, there is no shelter
For each thought is a hole in my mind
Through which the wind blows ceaselessly
Thanks, guys (you know who you are)
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
Quote: I am probably assuming... but I am so tired of lies...
Acting upon assumptions isn't usually a good thing to do. Sure, you're tired of the lies. Who wouldn't be? It sounds like things have been so-so for you and your H lately. I'm not sure that translates into a sign that it's beyond hope.
It sounds to me like he's still torn and confused about what to do, or how to handle things. I don't think anyone here can answer the important questions you've pointed out: How committed is H to the R? How long are you willing to wait for H to show significant progress?
I do, however, have a few more questions for you: Have you re-read your original posts recently? Have you thought about where the relationship was compared to where it is now? Have you gone back to DR to compare that advice to your current actions? Are your current thoughts and actions taking you closer to your goal?
Quote: I do not see why would he go to another room to call when he could have stayed where he was (I was not asleep). And why make up a conversation with a machine (he called his answering service before)...
I can think of several reasons. Maybe he didn't know what the conversation was going to be about. Maybe he didn't know who was calling. Did he make two calls, with the second being to the answering service? Maybe he thought the conversation would be upsetting to you.
Something to think about... Could he have gone to the other room to avoid upsetting you? If he thought the conversation was going to be difficult for him, could he have been avoiding letting you know about it to keep the problem from getting worse? (If he had work or OW problems, would adding home problems help the situation?)
OK.... You've probably thought about your response to my questions. Next question: Did you answer them in the amount of time he had to answer them when he took the phone call? Maybe a little bit of panic set in, and he didn't make the best split-second decisions.
Quote: And when he called me he could have turned and gone somewhere else. He asked if he could continue work from there in the same tone he used to tell me he was going out for a weekend 'if I did not have anything against it' (when he was going with OW...)
Assumptions? (Not something I'm really able to comment on.)
Quote: And I tried to call him and he did not answer back...
That certainly doesn't help his case any.
Quote: What is the point of all this crap?
Well, the point is to try and save your M if that's what you want. Don't make that decision when you're emotional.
I know my post sounds like I'm defending your H. I'm certainly not trying to do that. I fully agree that this doesn't look too great. My intention is to get you to focus on where you were, and where you are now. You're the only person who can decide what's best for you. Try to seperate the clear thoughts from the emotional thoughts, and don't make hasty decisions when you're emotional.
A gentle reminder.....
Quote:
George Strait The Road Less Traveled lyrics
(Buddy Brock/Dean Dillion)
There's a road a winding road that never ends
Full of curves lessons learned at every bend
Goin's rough unlike the straight and narrow
It's for those who go against the grain
Have no fear dare to dream of a change
live to march to the beat of a different drummer
And it all might come together
And it all might come unraveled
On the road less traveled
For the road less traveled ain't for the faint of heart
For those who choose to play it safe and never stray too far
Me I want to live my life and one day leave my mark
And it all might come together
And it all might come unraveled
On the road less traveled
I've chosen a pathway I may not endure
One thing's for certain nothing for sure
And it all might come together
And it all might come unraveled
On the road less traveled
For the road less traveled ain't for the faint of heart
For those who choose to play it safe and never stray too far
Me I want to live my life and one day leave my mark
And it all might come together
And it all might come unraveled
On the road less traveled
Hi Opt....I know the tired feeling...we are tired...so many reasons....and the holiday stress...or not feeling well..all those things can stir so much up.
I do know the ASSuming thing can only cause you more grief..I did that a year ago and nearly drove myself bonkers...
Keep working on you..foccus on you when these feelings of doubt come over you..you can't change him..only the way you react can change..it is so hard..I know.
Opt, Coolhandluck has great insight here! Good one CHL! You need to look at where you were and where you are at now. I just know that you are assuming and need to let it be. Your H has to work through this and it don't necessarily mean the worse! I know I've come a long way, and it's not easy! We all have a long way to go. And like CHL I agree with the song, I'll take the road less traveled! And why don't you apply the "act as if" method. Act as if your H loves you and is slowly working at saving your M! It's working for me! Don't ASume and believe the worse, you've on;y hurting yourself! So pull up your pants and work on saving you're M. Even if your H was talking to OW, it doesn't mean he wants her, it could be he is telling her to bug off! And doesn't want you to hear about it. Give him a break and give yourself one. This might be all in your head! Put on a smile and DR your butt off!
Thanks for the input, David. Very helpful, as usual
Quote: I do, however, have a few more questions for you:
Have you re-read your original posts recently? Yes, I have been reading them over the past week
Have you thought about where the relationship was compared to where it is now? Well, there has been a lot of improvement: we are closer, we spend more time together, we are wearing our wedding rings (most of the time)... but we are still stuck in the same first two goals
Have you gone back to DR to compare that advice to your current actions? Tried to, but it conflicted with 'Dora the explorer' and Dora won
Are your current thoughts and actions taking you closer to your goal? NO, NO, NO
Actually I just did a fresh-thinking exercise with Pam. I think it accounts for my trying to see things with a beginners mind:
Quote: psluke1: Ok, psluke1: I think you are a bit emotionally exhausted right now. psluke1: Everyone was sick. psluke1: The visit wasn't great with your Sibs psluke1: then the holiday was here psluke1: He is stressed because he is confused
optimistdb: I've stopped answering the phone when it is my parents
psluke1: you are stressed psluke1: and confused psluke1: I think you guys are feeding a bit off of negative cycles of one another
optimistdb: OK. I am trying to look at things in a different way. Tell me if it looks plausible... optimistdb: Here is another version of the story:
psluke1: ok
optimistdb: H is trying to make up for what he has done but is very unsure that I will ever forgive him. He wants to hope, but he thinks what he did is unforgivable.
psluke1: Yes
optimistdb: He does not want to/cannot get rid of that woman and knows that with her in the picture I will never heal. He does not know what to do but does not want to ask for help from me, partly from fear of being controlled partly from guilt
psluke1: I think you are doing good so far.
optimistdb: My sibs come and he feels unwelcome in his own house. But it is his fault so he hides in his cave. Then he sees that he is hurting me more, and tries to get out
psluke1: And he did try at the end
optimistdb: He did. In the middle of all that we all get sick and I get the blues post-sickness. But he may think it is that I am upset at him for his prior behaviour. The holidays come and I go beserk. He is sure I am mad at him and controlling and we all backslide optimistdb: Then I tell him I appreciate how he turned around the sit during my bro last days here, and he feels better, but I am still a mental mess. So he is treading on eggshells now
psluke1: So if that is the true picture how do you proceed to turn it around?
optimistdb: Does not know what to do to get in my good side optimistdb: Calystra!
psluke1:
Quote: OK.... You've probably thought about your response to my questions. Next question: Did you answer them in the amount of time he had to answer them when he took the phone call? Maybe a little bit of panic set in, and he didn't make the best split-second decisions.
Point well taken. It took me about half an hour to think and formulate the above. My H had three minutes if that long...
Quote: I know my post sounds like I'm defending your H. I'm certainly not trying to do that. I fully agree that this doesn't look too great. My intention is to get you to focus on where you were, and where you are now. You're the only person who can decide what's best for you. Try to seperate the clear thoughts from the emotional thoughts, and don't make hasty decisions when you're emotional.
Thanks again. Actually I would not mind if you defended my H, God knows nobody else does... not even his sister
I also discovered something else about my goals. Bear with all the IM, but it shows the discovery process. Might help someone else in a similar sitch:
Quote: psluke1: Have you got goals set? psluke1: like on the thread Sage has going psluke1: It might help focus you more
optimistdb: I've had the same goals for moths, but they do not seem to be reachable...
psluke1: Then, maybe they need broken down or revised?
optimistdb: I broke one of them down and revised them all
psluke1: How long ago?
optimistdb: They are in the first page of my current thread optimistdb: Which is more a circle than a thread
psluke1: Ok, two big ones focus on him and put a lot of pressure on him to meet psluke1: and some of the others aren't real specific
optimistdb: Suggestions?
psluke1: Number 4 is being met right?
optimistdb: Mostly
psluke1: Did you read Sage's second DR thread?
optimistdb: No
psluke1: I think that is the one that gives goal examples psluke1: and LL has one on spending time together psluke1: and breaks it down more specifics psluke1: I think you are stuck right now psluke1:http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=605353&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1 psluke1: The second post there is good psluke1: This is a great action-oriented list! It will be easy to see when these goals are being accomplished
psluke1: That is what is lacking for me and I wonder about for you psluke1: If we aren't specific and small enough we don't see progress and get discouraged
optimistdb: I see your point. My goal concentrate in what is missing from my marriage, not what I want it to be optimistdb: So the more I fixate on not being closer to my goals, the more I get trapped in my old marriage, not the new one
psluke1: Right
So I guess I have to thank all of my friends who eased me out of this cheeseless tunnel. So, in no particular order, thank you Pam, David, Jan, Colleen, Deb, Sue, LL, nik, Loretta, Bob, Cupcake and everybody!
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
I love the list of positives... I see him making an effort to reassure you of his whereabouts. Perhaps you can lovingly discuss with him what goes on with YOU when calls like that occur. He appears open to making you feel more secure. Don't accuse..ask for his help. Make him feel needed and in control. Maybe you could even make it fun...tell him you need to schedule an appointment with him for some "medical marital" advice. Make him the expert on your R. He may be touched and pleased to help.
I've managed to squeeze in some bb time this morning (H is sleeping) and decided to peek into your thread. I've seen you on so many other threads that I've been following over time.
Unfortunately, I have been unable to read all your threads, so my knowlege of your situation is limited to what I've been able to glean on this one.
What grabbed me about your particular situation, is the fact that the OW works for your H. I had to deal with that one myself. My H had a managerial position and hired a woman who became the OW.
In your summary, you listed all the positive changes your H was making, while repeatedly interjecting the fact that "the OW still works for him". This really stuck me in the heart. I relate to the misery this is obviously causing you.
Bear with me if you've already answered this, but does your H avoid conflict like it's the plague? Is he NORMALLY sensitive about hurting the feelings of people around him?
