After an extremelly busy week I'm back reading all the posts that I missed and as usual trying to go back to the first messages on the threads, but I still find it a bit confusing sometimes. What can a person do here to find a thread that just started??? LOL just joking I do find lot's of excellente ideas and advice in this site and it is comforting sometimes to come here and remember that I"m ot the only person in the world going trough this.
But my post today doesn't have much to do with my own situation:my husband's affairs, at least not directly. It's more like a surprise/shock revelation... not even revelation because I already knew how easy was for things like this to happen, but it certainly scared me at first!!!!
I have this best friend. We grew up basically together - at least everytime I was in Portugal we were together. Our parents were also great friends and we used to spend so much time together. When I was away from Portugal, we used to write to each other and keep in touch.There is a special caring for each other born from sharing so much of our past. This friend is a man. Well he is a man now, he was a little boy when we became friends LOL. Because we are so close, we share many things. He seems to know when I need some support and is always there with a nice word or some crazy story to make me smile. Likewise I can feel when something is not well with him.
He's been married for as long as I have and his wife is also an old friend.
A few years back, when he was seriously ill and had to stay home he bought a computer and we kept in touch by email regularly.
I talked to him about Rui's first affair, and about this second one as well. We shared ideas and tools we found useful in working on our relationships and he was there for me again.
A few months ago I received an email from him that got me a bit puzzled, but maybe I was too involved in what was happening to me too really read the "small print". He was telling me how much he was finding himself thinking about me and my problems and how much he would like for us to be closer so he could help more. He already does a lot, but on the other hand it seemed a normal comment and I didn't think about it anymore.
He had some hard time with his health again and I kept in touch more often.
A few weeks ago, I had another surprise email where he was telling me how upset he was that his wife wanted to use the computer while he was writing to me and couldn't she just stop and let him write. - yeah.. I know some of you are getting the idea by now......
Still I wasn't picking up the signs yet. Pretty naive coming from someone that is actually trying to help a husband to recognize boundaries huh?????
MOre messages about time spent together in the past, wishing we could be closer still, the fact that he prints my messages to read on the train on the way home, how much he misses them when I don't have a chance to write and a... what if! what if we hadn't married who we did ? Maybe we would have ended up toghether huh??? And I'll call you next week, I miss your voice!
Ok.. I can't be dense for too long. Now this scared me. It wasn't on the program and I certainly wasn't doing anything for this.
SO when he called on tuesday we had a long talk. ABout 2 hours long distance LOL GOod thing we're both quite logical people. THere was indeed a pattern starting and neither had actually noticed it.We reafirmed boundaries dicussed some of the things happening and got back on the "friendship" track. But all this got me thinking. It is indeed very, very easy to get caught in a situation that we're not planning and might not even notice until it's too late. The other side of the coin is of course what we do with it. It would be easy to keep getting more and more attached trough those emails and who knows where it could end, I've seen and heard of way to many affairs starting like this. Indeed the fact that he was taking much more time for our friendship than for his own family and relationship can in itself be considered some sort of an affair already. The fact that I was relying so much on his support could certainly be considered an escape from the difficult times in my own relationship and an affair as well. Just that it wasn't, but it could very well be in the way to become one....so...when do you cross the line???? DOn't know that one, but know that once we realize what is happening it is our response to it that counts. HOw we react to it and deal with the whole situation. Now, it was so easy to talk and reafirm all the boundaries that we had stepped over without noticing. What makes it easy for some people and impossible for others? My H assures me he wasn't looking for an affair, and that when he realized what was happening it was already late. And he wasn't able to get out of the situation. So what made it so difficult for him to jump back into the line of acceptable? How come he wasn't able to go" oops.. I crossed over by mistake, let me correct this now before it gets even worse." ?
AM I rambling again? I know I have the tendency LOL
Still wanted to share this with you. Specially with the people still struggling with the "how come it happened?". I already knew and understood well how easy it is to happen, but having it almost happen to myself made it even more clear. Most people certainly don't go around looking for an affair. And a lot of people get caught on one before they even had a chance to think about it. But again.. it's what you do with the realization that you're there that makes the difference.
And I'm stopping here for now. My soon his asking for help with his homework and a snack so I'll be back later. Hugs to all nightshade
"Each and every one of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought and the gift of understanding. "
I still get a bit lost here. Sometimes I don't have a chance to come for a few days and when I do, I'm completely lost LOL so many threads and posts I don't even know where mine are !!! hehehehehe
I debated posting for a few minutes I wasn't sure how it was going to be taken, but at the same time I felt it had something to offer. So many of us - including myself here - still think about the "hows" and the "whys" and although in many cases there might be "hows and whys" in many others things just happened. No planning, no weak links in the marriage, no big problems.. just overlooking some signs, passing some boundaries without noticing and it's right there. I think this might help some people to concentrate on what needs to be the focus : our goal. Not why it happened or how. It's enough that it happened. It's enough that it is so easy to happen. I loose track of my goal often LOL but I've trained myself to get back to it. I think after this it is also a bit easier to understand Rui. Not to get him off the hook , not to use that as a nice and perfectly good excuse for what he did, but just to undersand .
Now I"m going back to try and read some more posts. I have some free time before dinner and really want to catch up.
Personality traits are often what we make of them.. and that can always be good if we're responsible and caring:)
Hugs to you nightshade
"Each and every one of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought and the gift of understanding. "
A year ago I scoffed at CJ's explanation for how "they" happened...that it started out as e-mail pals, a chat room, private messages, support for each other's "failing" marriages, encouragement for their unrealized dreams...
I probably didn't want to KNOW that it was that easy, that slippery a slope.
I will agree however, that it IS what we DO in the beginning...or even before...
For some reason, although I've been quite unhappy, bored, neglected in this M, I've never gone beyond the rare fantasy of an A.
When men have seemed to cross the boundary from friendly interest into....more...red flags appear, I become VERY uncomfortable and the R either stops or changes pronto.
Perhaps it's NOT so much (as I'd LIKE to believe) that I have some kind of greater moral compass...but that the circumstances, my vulnerability, someone else's attractive attention have not converged!!
This is truly a humbling thought. I'd LIKE to think that I would NOT have crossed the boundary into an A...but can I be sure?
WOW!...No wonder CJ actually DID wonder if I'd cheated on him!
What I CAN be sure of now is that my eyes are OPEN to all of this, I am much better armed!
Not everybody realizes how deep the waters are on time to avoid getting in trouble. Have you ever been trapped in a rip current?
I had read the 'slippery slope' concept in Shirley Glass' book and she really does a good job of showing how easy it is not to realize things until you are in the middle of it. Or even beyond.
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
very true twin! I did know about how easy it was.. but from the outside you see, it's always more difficult to fully understand.
But noticing how easy this friendship turned on my, when i wasn't even giving it a thought gave a completely different perspective.
LIke shiny I would like to think that I would never cross the line, but the same way she reasons.. I don't know. True it's showing that I am able to recognize boundaries and reaffirm them if needed. But in other circumstances .. would I find myself in the middle of an affair before I had time to even think ? The current thingy.... still I don't think I would go there. Relationships are complicated things. I have enough in my hands trying to work on this one! NO need for more complication in my life Now why is it more difficult to some people to jump back from the stepped boundaries I don't know yet.
EVen copping with guilt a lot of people continue affairs that aren't even taking them anywhere. Guilt is sometimes a factor. Even though a strange one... they don't feel guilty that they're cheating on us, but they feel guilty that they might have lead the op? Thye're fine with hurting us, but want to avoid hurting the op? I don't know.. any ideas on this? why some people have more trouble than others after realizing they actually are in an affair that they weren't really looking for and it's not particularly fulfilling?
Nightshade
"Each and every one of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought and the gift of understanding. "
I have LOTS of ideas on this nightshade. I think I posted one of them on someone's thread??
One idea: H sought out OP who was EXACTLY like I was when we first met. H was TRYING to relive OUR beginning R...it was a time when he was very happy and satisfied and he wanted that again.
Another idea: Something different...they are bored of the same-old, same-old. They think someone new will solve that problem.
One more: Their self-centeredness when an A occurs becomes all consuming. They focus on the pleasure they are getting and feeling from the sitch and don't want to give up a "good thing". I think the thrill of getting away with "it" is tied up in this someplace too.
I too reached a point in a friendship where things got too close to crossing the boundaries. This friend and I even discussed the distinct plausability and probability of such a thing happening if we were to ever be in the same vicinity as on another. When it looked like H and I were going to split up for sure this friend let me know that I was more than welcome to come out and move in with him. It was very, very tempting. The friend was great at boosting my PMA and made it known that he felt H was losing the best thing he would ever have
My saving grace?? My friend lives half a country away and I can't travel anyplace on my own. I realised what was happening yes, but at the time I felt I needed that boost to keep me going. Guilt started to eat at me though and when H told me about his A I ended up telling him about my friend. In a sense I guess I was in my own EA H and I started working things out, he didn't blame me for the friend and I's R (he understood it too well). The friend and I are still friends but we both agreed it was something that was never going to happen and we have tempered our friendship accordingly. Actually, we hardly speak at all anymore.
Zoo
"If patience is worth anything, it must endure to the end of time. And a living faith will last in the midst of the blackest storm."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Zoo, you're ideas do make a lot of sense. Iknow for sure that recreating that beginning of a relationship feeling is very powerfull. ANd I do know that it played a role in both of my h's affairs.
Your saving grace in the case of your friend was the same as mine LOL we have many miles between us and an ocean.. neither of us is that good a swimmer LOL Still I didn't really feel that tempted. I feel great being able to talk to him and we do help each other during rough times, but there was never - on my part or on his up to now - any confusion with our feelings of friendship only. ANywa gotta go now, be back later. nighshade
"Each and every one of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought and the gift of understanding. "
Great post! I do know how easy it can be to slip into an inappropriate friendship. I have a very old friend who happens to be male and I have to admit that the last few times that we have got together I have found myself thinking those what-if thoughts. This is something that completely crept on on me too - it's like "hey! where did that thought come from".
A few years back a close female friend moved to Hong Kong and I was very distressed. The feelings were so much like those of a break-up that I couldn't help feeling that maybe I had been "in love" with her in some kind of way. I think there is a very grey area around where friendship steps over into love and it is OK to have a same sex friend you are very close with but not OK to have the same with an opp sex friend. This is even more blurry when it comes to EAs. If I had two different close female friends would that be wrong? If your partner has another close opposite sex friend is that wrong? Well yes if it means they break their vows, I think morally that is what it is about - we took vows to each other.
I know there are a whole bunch of other issues like jealousy on the part of the LBS but that happens between friends too, one friend can be jealous of another - it happens all the time.
In a way I am more confused about the "meaningless" PAs that men claim to have
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
so I'll be back later.
Not sure if those are good or bad. 
- still think about the "hows" and the "whys" and although in many cases there might be "hows and whys" in many others things just happened. No planning, no weak links in the marriage, no big problems.. just overlooking some signs, passing some boundaries without noticing and it's right there.
