It's great to see you back wandering the boards! How are you doing? I, for one, have greatly missed our firery discussions. Crazy Jim and I can only argue about so much, and I'm coming to find that I agree with him more about stuff than I disagree. Sometimes I have to take the opposite stance just for lively discussion purposes.
From your recent posts, it sounds like you have decided you need to get out of your marriage? Care to update us? My purpose in asking is not to try to talk you into or out of anything, but to lend support if able.
The perverbial 'they' have updated the function of this BBS, so you won't be getting email notification anymore. You are now forced to check in to see if anyone is hanging out. (I'm bummed about that lost feature, just to state my opinion.)
Yes, after much soul-searching, and talking with close friends, both men and women, I think I have to make the decision to separate, at the very least.
I am about to head out to take my younger daughter to Disneyland through Monday. It's her first trip there, and I can't wait to see the look on her face when we arrive.
Upon my return, I will devote the time to explaining my situation in more detail. Basically, I can keep doing trial-and-error experiments on this ad nauseum, but I get the impression that I'm working with inert chemicals (aka: the W).
I wondered if you get your wife to read ABC's news website about Michele's 20/20 show on Sex Starved Marriages? On the website is a series of questions that viewers asked and Michele responded to. The exerpt below is part of one of the questions Michele responded to and sounds like it describes your particular situation:
"In fact, I believe that in millions of homes across America, there is an unspoken agreement that goes like this- "I am not into sex. You are. But I don't have to care about your sexual needs. Furthermore, I expect you to be monogamous." Frankly, I believe that this is an unfair and unworkable agreement. It leads to infidelity and divorce. The remedy? People with low sexual desire simply do not fully understand the impact their decisions have on marriage. Because sex isn't "all that" to them, they can't fathom what the big deal is all about. When they try to make sense of their spouse's interest in sex they tell themselves, "It must be a biological urge, it's like scratching an itch." I know, because I've been a therapist for two decades, that having sex with your loved one is anything but scratching an itch. It's about feeling wanted, loved, appreciated, sexy, manly or womanly. It's about feeling connected. And when this major disconnect happens, intimacy on all levels disappears. The friendships evaporates. Anger bubbles just below the surface. And anger turns off the less sexual spouse even more."
Been out of touch, and offline, for much of the week. It's almost 11pm here in L.A., the brush fires are about to burn the town down, and I'm holed up in my office where I've sleeping most nights the past few weeks. Fortunately, I am extremely busy with work, which is allowing me something of an escape.
The past week, the W and I haven't spoken much, but I've been there to help her as much as I can. She started her therapy, and is telling me that she's going thru SSM with a highlighter and bringing the notes to therapy. I took our younger daughter, age 3.5 years, to pre-school yesterday morning, and noticed that she was very sad. I called my W at home (she was taking the day off for herself) and told her about it, then later in the day I called to check on how she was doing, and we ended up in a 45 minuted back-and-forth about how I have failed her in our marriage. It didn't go very well, but I told her that I lvoe her and we hung up. This morning, I received this email at work from her:
**I'm sorry about our conversation yesterday. After you called me in morning about (our daughter), it sent me into a tailspin of guilt, fear, sadness and anger. I have decided today, not to focus my attention on fear but rather on change, hopefully I can stick with that. One day at a time, right? No need to respond, just wanted to say that I am sorry you get that anger thrown your way, whether deserved or not. A lifetime of that with anyone would, or has, crumble any marriage.**
Well, I have been scratching my head over this one ever since. Who did she speak to after our conversation? This IS NOT her talking. My W does not admit fault. Can she really change? Does she mean business? These are the things I'm thinking.
Meanwhile, I plan to maintain our separation, since I too have to evaluate my feelings, and my willingness to give it another shot. An email isn't enough, but it isn't bad either. I have a friend who is going to let me stay in a spare bedroom in his place, and I'm looking at apartments too. She needs time to go through her therapy, and I need time for myself too.
I will probably check back in late Monday. Hope you are doing well.
Well, it's about TIME you showed up... Thanks for the update... I worry about you in a sick, masochistic kind of way Just joshing.
Besides the fact that you have been living out of your car and sleeping in your office, things sound as though they are headed in a very positive direction.
In regard to your wife's email... I understand how difficult it must be for you to trust or hope at this point... but don't sabbotage yourself by getting in your own way... try not to analyze the 'deeper' meaning of her words and actions, but to take them at face value and move on with it, you know? If she sounds sincere, assume she's sincere. Doesn't mean you have to pack up and run home, but give her points for trying.
I don't know if you saw JamesJohn's post on another thread here, but given that I'm a nosey broad, I thought I'd go read what he had linked to, since he took the time to put it out there. It's quick, if you get a moment: Step 1 - Start With A Beginner's Mind
Might give you some food for thought. Have you bought Michele's Divorce Busting Book? Could be your wife has, you know. It might have some good info in it for you, too.
At this point, she sounds like she is making some real efforts and stretching herself beyond anything that she has done before. So wait and see.
Patience is your friend right now... and the road to patience is paved with empathy and tolerance. (Have I already given you that lecture?
And yes, I am doing very well lately, thank you for the sentiment, especially in the middle of your crisis. My H and I actually had a very deep conversation last weekend that lasted nearly two hours, and he didn't once get defensive or snap at me (well, maybe once... he actually LISTENED to me!! And you know what? I don't give a fig if he didn't agree with one thing I said -- the important thing for me was he gave me his undivided attention, and in so doing, he made me feel very, very special.
Feeling very sad today. Starting to grieve the very possible end of this marriage. I know for a fact that my W is not sure whether or not she loves me any more, or is even attracted to me. I emailed her last night to tell her that I would not be surprised if she did not love me, and accept the fact if she doesn't. She is carrying serious resentment toward me that shows itself in the very thing I want from her: intimacy.
I plan to sit down and write her a letter that amplifies on my thoughts some more, and to at least let her know that I can picture a happy life with her. In my experience, if you can picture yourself doing something, then it's possible. I don't know if she can picture that with me, but that's why I am giving her the space she needs to figure it out. If she can't, then she needs to let me go.
My W is taking constructive action, but it may be too late for both of us. It is action that she should have taken several years ago, which she admits to. How do you create love, trust, and affection where there is none? It's just so depressing today. I feel like someone's punched me in the stomach.
I may read the book, and will check out that link later tonight. Thanks for the suggestions. Gotta get to work now. Thanks for all the help.
Hey you... I'm so sorry to hear you are feeling blue.
(((((((((((FIVE MINUTE BEAR HUG)))))))))))))))))
That's the best I can do for you here, but the sentiment is heartfelt.
Now I'm going to annoy the hell out of you -- cuz that's what I do best.
Do not grieve. Way too early in the process. Feel sad and lonely all you want, but you aren't even close to the end yet.
I hate to do this to you, but I see all kinds of positives with what your W is doing right now. Of course she is angry and resentful toward you, and guy, that is A. O. K. All you have to do at this point is VALIDATE her feelings.
At least now what has lurked below the surface and has gone a long way in derailing your marriage is finally coming to the surface. She has never dealt with it, let alone expressed it, for gods sake. Jeese, man, let her vent. Acknowledge it, encourage it, accept it. And do not ATTEMPT to defend yourself. It is not necessary at this point. What is critical is she gets all those agressive, angry feelings she's been bottling up for the last 10 years out of her system.
Believe it or not, you have been waiting for this moment all your unhappy married life to her, and rather than this being a moment to be sad, I think you should be celebrating.
The way you WILL eventually get your needs met is by making absolutely certain her needs are met first. And her need right now is to be angry, pissed, resentful and hurtful. Have at it girl. You don't have to agree with her, you know. But for gods sake DO NOT defend yourself.
'Cuz when all is said and done (and it might take some time for this to truly run its course), and she's completely spent, she is going to need a really, really, really BIG HUG from you.
If you are going to write her a letter or an email, I'd dump whatever plans you have of telling her how you see things, and just concentrate on the things she's said to you -- and make damn certain she understands that you have HEARD her.
That is all you need to do at this time.
Tell her, too, that whenever she'd like for you to start going to therapy with her, just let you know, and you'll be happy to go (would you? Are you willing?).
It is never, ever, ever too late.
Quote: How do you create love, trust, and affection where there is none?
You start all over again. You throw out everything you thought you knew, and realize that maybe you have a few things still to learn -- you both do, and that's okay, really it is. If you can accept that, the world is your playground... I am not kidding.
I mean, think about it, if the two of you really KNEW what you were doing, then your marriage wouldn't be at the point it is now. So if you can admit that you don't KNOW anything, you have all the room in the world to learn and grow.... together.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Okay, so trot on down to the bookstore after work and pick up Michele's Divorce Busting book. It'll get your mind off of being sad, and it will give you something to do immediately after work.
Then you have to go get something to eat, and you have to find time to start reading the book.
Look, yet MORE POSITIVES to sprinkle onto your bad day. We now have your day filled to the brim of positive things to do for yourself, and BECAUSE we do, you now have an ACTION PLAN... and when one can TAKE ACTION, one can SMILE.
And when one SMILES, one cannot help but feel better.
So. Chop, chop. Let's go. Pull yourself up out of the muck and let's start actively DBing.
Just joshing.
