Will a glimmer of hope be a start?

[PamCakes]

My newest fear: Being that OW has a large chunk of $$ from her deceased husband (tragically: suicide) and a botched boob job lawsuit. Broken seeks broken ? We're talking Hundreds of thousands guys. He always bragged " she pays for everything"...

I'm fearful my H may quit his job and live off her funds . She's 10 years younger, has her own severe trauma from seeing him deceased...
Right now H is acquiescing to give our kid anything and everything financially, so I keep getting anxiety... That flow may stop..Trying not to fortune tell... But I have heard of capable MLC surgeons quit their job and become macrame artists ...haha ...all jokes aside...we never know one day to the next what whim he or she will flit to


I was going to suggest a reasonable number and see if he can agree on a contract...not sure he'd oblige
This is only week 1 since he left...tread lightly? Be stern?

Thoughts to reinforce the need to keep providing??


Also....so much to navigate and communicate with him - lawn care, driveway issues, snow plow contract...
How do I get this sorted out and not overwhelm him..

[DnJ]

Good Morning Pam

I hope H left your awards alone.

You are walking two paths: the business path and the emotional/healing path.

The business path is the financial stuff, house, assets, loans, banking, custody, etc. Relatively straightforward with laws determining rights and such. Definitely want to speak with a lawyer for information. In this arena almost everything is negotiable. Rights can be waived, deals made, values of assets determined, and so on. In my locale, only two things are not waive-able, cannot be negotiated: Child support and the government pension.

The emotional/healing path is a much longer path. Lots of DBing; figuring yourself out; letting go fear, grudges, ego, etc, finding peace, living and loving your life. This is basically a lifelong journey. Embrace it.

Some advice, keep the paths separate. When dealing with business remain businesslike.

I'm fearful my H may quit his job and live off her funds . She's 10 years younger, has her own severe trauma from seeing him deceased...

Right now H is acquiescing to give our kid anything and everything financially, so I keep getting anxiety... That flow may stop..Trying not to fortune tell... But I have heard of capable MLC surgeons quit their job and become macrame artists ...haha ...all jokes aside...we never know one day to the next what whim he or she will flit to

Fear lives in the future. It is our irrational response to an imagined possible unwanted future. Let it go. No need to go looking for troubles or worry.

Most things we fear never come to pass. And for the few that do, that fear instantly evaporates. When some unwanted future becomes reality, we then face that problem. A problem is not some imagined possible future. And a problem can be solved. Thus fear abates. And we go about resolving whatever came up.

To be clear, dangers need to be, and can be dealt with. Rational thought out risk analysis. And necessary mitigating measures taken.

Yes, it is possible that H may quit his job and sponge of OW. He may shirk his responsibilities to you and the kids. Fretting over it will only exhaust you. Let go. Rationalize it. How? Treat it for what it is: business.

Speak with a lawyer and lay it out to them. See your options and make a prepared plan incase things go sideways. Keep tabs on the accounts, credit cards, etc; and if H starts to financially waiver or go outside your parameters, take action.

I was going to suggest a reasonable number and see if he can agree on a contract...not sure he'd oblige
This is only week 1 since he left...tread lightly? Be stern?

Business stuff. Be businesslike. Utilize your lawyer. Do not negotiate or agree or make deals without consulting your lawyer. And never sign anything without your L looking it over.

He earns twice what I make; I do most parenting and finances. Recently he agreed to contribute more financially.

He already stated he would contribute more. And he is providing for the kids. This is setting precedent. Keep track of his and your contributions to joint expenses and such.

To note, lots of spouses are extra generous while in the throes of their guilt and shame. If your locale recognizes separation agreements (some locales don’t, there is only divorce) it may be an idea to consider getting a legally binding financial agreement in place while H is agreeable.

Like I said, business. Treat this like a business deal gone sideways. For that is what is it. Use an L, for they are detached and legal experts and there for you. After all, this likely the biggest financial decision of your life.

D

[PamCakes]

I don't have a lawyer yet. I can't afford one and don't have any ability to borrow from a bank or person. I'm representing myself pro se, so to speak. He's terrified of lawyers. Perhaps thats my advantage.


He did leave my stuff alone. I don't think he slept in the bed, I did strip it before he came.
Maybe he stayed on the couch, or in his van.

[PamCakes]

Ok- after two weeks of going( mostly) dark, save for a few tantrums of my own towards him for his decision - he returned home this morning, carrying two bags of rumples clothes. Previously, he would tote neatly folded bags of clothes.

I don't know how I feel about this, because I was ready to pull the trigger and file for divorce. As much as I want to DB, I'm not sure what a path for regaining trust and reconciliation looks like.
We have been NC except for communication about the child. I canceled marriage counseling( he never contacted me to ask why).

I only know he's home because I saw this morning ring camera he carrying the bags in, then my son looked after he left.

My MIL said that he did talk to a lawyer. So maybe it's a legal ploy to look good during court.

Thoughts about what to do? Continue going dark/NC?

I still have strong anger and feelings of betrayal, I'm not interested in initiating contact. As you know, he is not allowed in the marital bed.

[DnJ]

Good Morning Pam

Stick to the path. Remain kind and cordial, roommate-like. Continue being dim, keeping answers short and succinct. H needs to feel the loss. Needs to feel his consequences for his actions. Like:

It's been a wild weekend here. He must be furious about being kicked out of the bedroom.

People need to hit rock bottom before they will change. And rock bottom takes a lot of pain/time to get to.

My MIL said that he did talk to a lawyer. So maybe it's a legal ploy to look good during court.

Yes, that is a possibility. These folks will use and twist the legal system to their advantage.

I still have strong anger and feelings of betrayal, I'm not interested in initiating contact.

You need not initiate contact. And respond only to that which you need to.

Your feelings of anger and betrayal are perfectly normal. Anger is a stage of grief, and will last some time. Do know, the anger, hurt, pain, and such does subside. So, try not to do not act out of temporary emotions, look to a more rational thought out path.

I don't know how I feel about this, because I was ready to pull the trigger and file for divorce. As much as I want to DB, I'm not sure what a path for regaining trust and reconciliation looks like.

Was it you felt ready? (Rundown, exhausted, etc.) Or did you have a rational logical reason to pull the trigger?

Detachment is an important part of your healing and ensuring you do not enact (emotional) decisions you cannot take back.

Focus on you and your life. Heal thyself. Live thy life. Love thy life.

Let H go. Give him to the man upstairs. Let Him work on H for a while. H needs to feel his loss.

You’ve got time. You own your house. No loans. Just keep an eye on the finances for any funny business.

Regaining trust, respect, and reconciling is possible. It’s hard work. It’s going to take long term consistent demonstrated behaviour from H. Your part is being open to it. However, H first has to decide to get through this mess he is currently within. And that is going to take time. Hence, you focusing on you.

D

[PamCakes]

Thanks D

I am exhausted and burned out.

Wondering, how does one know if they really"feel their loss"?

[PamCakes]

Ok- so H came back, left, came back in a 3 day period. I've been NC for the last 2 weeks, only talking about the kids.
He attended our kids counseling appointment for a parent only check in.
He mentioned I'm not civil, there's tension - he can't stay because of said tension. He wants me to be friendlier.
I said because of how he treats me I'm not interested in being friends.
Then, he said he's not interested in repairing our relationship. I said fine. He balked when the therapist suggested he have some consistent parenting times. He chose 3 hrs , 3 nights a week - no weekends. And psych recommended OW not see our kid for now.
H said my tone is manipulative. Mentioned gaslighting, I'm toxic. Albeit, when he referenced this in therapy he was never able to cite a specific example

So, now I'm kinda feeling this NC is backfiring.

Also- he apparently didn't read my email with the kiddos daycare location and address - so she never got picked up on time. He accused me of picking her up during his parenting time, but that never happened.
He told his mom I railroaded him...by not checking in and confirming with him where she was gonna be.
Excuse me- he's a big boy. If I would have told him, he'd be upset for me "mothering" him. If I don't say anything, I'm setting him up. I can't win either way.
I sent a screenshot with that email. He said "write that down in your little notepad".

What am I doing wrong?? What should my next strategy be??

[DnJ]

Good Morning Pam

I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong. H is gaslighting you. Twisting things up. Blaming you. And of course, in front of the therapist.

These mixed up folks will manipulate everyone and everything to get their way. And for those that they cannot, they’ll mow right over them.

I said because of how he treats me I'm not interested in being friends.

Maybe reword it. “Yes, we’re not friends. My friends don’t treat me this way.”

Also- he apparently didn't read my email with the kiddos daycare location and address - so she never got picked up on time. He accused me of picking her up during his parenting time, but that never happened.
He told his mom I railroaded him...by not checking in and confirming with him where she was gonna be.
Excuse me- he's a big boy. If I would have told him, he'd be upset for me "mothering" him. If I don't say anything, I'm setting him up. I can't win either way.
I sent a screenshot with that email. He said "write that down in your little notepad".

Yep. Pretty standard snark-filled spew from H.

What should my next strategy be??

Stay the course.

Put on your spew raincoat and drink that STFU smoothie.

Accountability. Responsibility. MLCers hate it.

Your strategy: Keep all communications with H in writing. Pick one forum and stick with it. Email is likely best. It’s easy to sort and store, and forward to others if/when needed. And you’ll likely need to rebuff H’s accusations.

H can contact you how he wishes, yet you reply with an email. Like you did for daycare stuff.

Keep track of things. When and what you ask H to do. What he agreed to. What he ignores. And so on. Again, emails will make this much easier.

You are absolutely correct. H is a big boy. It’s high time for him to put on his big boy pants. Hold him accountable. Don’t be mean, and don’t walk on eggshells. Just responding to his actions/behaviours/etc. Only when you need to. Basically, kid related stuff.

So, now I'm kinda feeling this NC is backfiring.

Nope. It’s working just fine.

I’d consider some boundaries though. You don’t need to put up with disrespectful lies and such.


Remember, H is going to rebel. Thrash. Lash out. Get mad. And so on. Yep, growing up is hard.

Just keep your side of the street in order.

D

[PamCakes]

It's been a month since I posted. Last week he spent the weekend away, but always came home at 11:15 am both Saturday and Sunday -wondering if he was staying in hotels. This week he's been home without leaving at all during the work week, and was home all weekend. I don't know why. He still lives in the boiler room. I do have to say he's been quite attentive with the kid, and has offered to pay for big repairs- something he normally has never done. He stepped up with caring for a sick animal ( despite me threatening to call animal rescue league, as I was out of town, and he dragged his feet). Normally, hed fight tooth and nail giving up 1.50 to buy me a drive thru iced tea. He promised to share his finances, and create an interim budget, then reneged. Claimed he wants to "mediate" instead of divorce. I said "no thanks, that requires open and honest, none of which you've been". I haven't heard anything else about it.

I don't speak to him. I turn my back to him. I try not to seeth with anger when he's around, because there are so many other betrayals that I keep uncovering. I flicked him off when we passed each other on the road. Bad behavior on my part. I know. I'm so angry. He doesn't react to it. He tries to be ....nice. perhaps it's a ploy. I don't trust him.

He also never emails first- and I only email for issues related to the house or kids.

Perhaps I have detached so much, I'm ready to move forward with my life. The prospect of not being responsible for , or supporting a sick person wrapped up in fantasy and denial is so appealing to me. He was upset I didn't put our child's doctor appt in the family calendar- even thought he was on the email thread. I told him I'm not his assistant, he has to learn not to depend on me. He emailed me "won't be long, my health is declining"- that mans a picture of health! And also "well I sit here even more miserable than before - I guess you win". I responded " the family is broken- nobody wins".

I don't see a path to rebuild trust. Trust. It's what prevents me from reaching out. I don't know if I trust myself not to fall for the next trap, if I hear him talk, or let my guard down just a bit.

I don't want to file for divorce. I also won't stand to live in limbo, and be in the dark financially.

I joined a bowling league for self care, I love it!

[DnJ]

Good Morning Pam

Anger is normal. Acknowledging it and letting it out, letting it go, is necessary. Doing so in a safe healthy manner and environment helps with your emotions not bubbling over at unwanted times.

Sweat it out. Go for a run. Dig a garden, or shovel snow (depending upon your weather ). Punch the heck out of a punching bag. Or punch a pillow.

Some good ol’ strenuous workout type stuff while thinking and feeling about things. Obviously, activities that won’t require your heightened focus as you are letting mind and emotions wander a bit. A nice long running path free from intersections and traffic; raking leaves instead of chopping wood; as examples.

It’s cleansing. Exhausting one’s self really burns through, works through, processes, that anger. That processing is subconscious. Beyond our direct control. Yet, influenceable.

One controls thoughts, actions, and reactions. Focusing one’s conscious effort on the physical path allows one’s subconscious to chew away less fettered or maybe less interrupted.

Answers do present themselves best when one is calm and at peace. Is the process faster when exercising? I don’t know. I think so. However, I do know with exercise/letting it out, you will feel better during it.



Sounds like H is playing the sad sack. The woe is me. Good not reacting to it. Do give praise for positive behaviours though.

I don't see a path to rebuild trust. Trust. It's what prevents me from reaching out. I don't know if I trust myself not to fall for the next trap, if I hear him talk, or let my guard down just a bit.

Betrayal cuts deep. Such a wound. And affects so much.

Before the betrayal, we LBS were somewhat naive. Extending trust easily. And quite unguardedly.

Now, naivety is not a great thing to one’s preservation and protection. Mentally, emotionally, financially, all those “-lly’s”. Someone could really do a number on us, having given so much trust and faith. Blind trust. Unchecked faith.

With BD and such terrible betrayal we swing to the opposite end. Our guard is up. We become cynical. We distrust by default. Even ourselves, our intuition, our faith, our heart, and so on. All perfectly normal. And part of growth and healing.

However, it takes an effort to not let those reaction-built walls, that protection barrier around our heart and mind, to harden and calcify. Takes an effort to keep your heart soft and squishy.

But how?

To let down those walls, even just for you. To love and trust yourself.

But how?

With naivety gone, it seems trust is gone. In truth, it’s that pathway of trust that’s gone. The one pathway we knew. There are others.

Courage.

Be courageous. Extend trust because of your courage. At first we extended trust, well we didn’t actually extend anything, trust was given away. After being burnt, we understand just how precious and valuable trust is. And it takes some courageous resolve to purposefully extend it thereafter. To risk it.

We do have to temper our cynical outlook somewhat. Yet, we do not go completely unguarded here. I think, after surviving and healing such betrayal, trust is no longer unlimited. Unlimited trust is childlike. Is like that trust we had when a child. And we’ve grown. So does how we trust.

Like I said, takes courage and effort to let down those walls. Not to be completely unguarded, just open to risking. And that’s the crux, risk. We enter a negotiation, a relationship, an agreement, a partnership, when we trust. Each party is agreeing to the risk. Agreeing to not betray.

Realize, trust is earned not given.

Trust, or rebuilding trust, comes from consistent demonstrated honest behaviours and actions over time.

Being courageous allows the path. Allows the possibility. Allows you to see and accept the results. Trustworthy or not.

You extend your trustworthiness all the time. Through your actions. Those sincere honest consistent actions.

Letting your walls down doesn’t leave you unguarded or unprotected. Just open to results.

I don't see a path to rebuild trust.

You only control you. Your trustworthiness.

Trust. It's what prevents me from reaching out.

My opinion, fear. It’s fear that prevents you. You fear getting burnt again.

I don't know if I trust myself not to fall for the next trap, if I hear him talk, or let my guard down just a bit.

(((Hugs)))

Learning to trust yourself again takes time.

Be courageous. Do that inner work. Discover and live your convictions.

I get it, one’s confidence is shattered after BD. Everything takes such a kicking. Trust, faith, fortitude, etc.

You’ll know you can trust yourself by doing. Taking those small steps. Consistent honest reliable actions. Every time. All the time.

Once you start, realizing/walking this different path to trust, it rebuilds pretty quickly. It is you after all, the actions and feedback are pretty instantaneous.

Trust is earned not given. Even to oneself.

I hope that helps.

Enjoy bowling!

D