Not even sure where to start

[dleague]

Good Morning DnJ

Your W is experiencing emotional turmoil. Something is hurting inside her, and there is a displayed desire for freedom from it. Unfortunately that desire to be free of pain, gets misinterpreted and misapplied against the marriage instead of looking to their internal pain.

A crisis is less wanting to be single and free of responsibilities, and more they need to be. A crisis person is driven to their behaviour. They run.

Totally understand this and feel this is what's happening. Something is hurting her and she feels the need to be free in a sense. I feel like she has created walls here from the years of pain and is pushing things out of her life and focusing on herself and her child.

36 is young for a MLC. Not unheard of, just young. There is a quarter life crisis which can occur. It is similar though somewhat less consuming. Often the QLC individual exits or moves from their crisis without figuring things out. Again, reburying their trauma(s). And things buried alive will haunt later.

If this is a crisis, W needs lots of time and space. Not some, lots! MLC is measured in years. I pray W is not along that path. Time will tell.

Yea agree that is it young but feel like maybe something is off with her medically. Her diagnosis of her disease was rare and usually in older people is what doctors have told her. That has been said to her a few times with different medical issues that pop up. She has joked that she only has 10 years left to live anyways. I'm sure somewhere inside that joke though is pain of dealing with everything and confusion on why. So I'm not sure if it's something medical or emotional or both at this point.

friendswith benefits: You didn’t have an open marriage before, do not have one now. Be the prize. You are the prize. Do not sully or partake in such. Marital problems never get better by bringing/allowing/ignoring another person into the mix.

Would W, or XW, remain exclusive? As in, she’s not see someone else too? You certainly don’t need some disease.

And my goodness if you brought another child into the world in the midst of all this strife.

Def something I have thought about. I actually have considered getting fixed myself. I don't want any more kids. She is actually fixed from when she has her son she had medical issues then and had to have surgery and she could never have kids again since then. We have both discussed and recognized the diseases out there and kind of the reason we discussed only sleeping with each other. I understand it's a trust and respect thing for us to be honest with the other on this. Agreed and feel like we didn't have an open marriage or even something we wanted to consider before. I feel like I am a prize in many ways. Maybe not to her necessarily (although many friends of mine and hers have both said she is going to miss the relationship). I feel like I have good things to offer. If not to her then maybe one day to someone else.

Yea I feel like the grief, depression and everything has gotten better. I know it's all still new and probably won't hit me harder until she moves out (she moved to the basement last week). She plans on moving out once we get an accepted offer on the house. But has been packing her stuff and taking it to work. It's harder for sure when she is here because I think about her and want to talk to her and be around her. Partially to show her my changes (although I know she will seem them in her own time) but also because she was/is an integral part of my life. We get along great still. Still tease each other.

Interesting enough, last night I was helping her pack somewhat. Just talking with her about life and things and not trying to talk about the R. She still tells me her plans and where she is going for the most part. Which I'm thankful for because it makes me feel like she isn't angry with me but more of something she feels like she needs to do. Well we were hanging out and got talking about our sex together somehow. Just kind of both teasing each other while talking. No touching more sex talk than anything. Lil bit later she said that she wanted to go to this burger spot and if I wouldn't get confused then she wanted me to take her. I of course obliged since I wanted to be around her and figured I would take any chance I could get of that right now and maybe any conversation that comes with it. So we talked on the way there. It was a drive in place so we sat in the car talking as well. We like to play this game called 20 questions. Open to whatever the person wants to ask. One of the questions she asked me was if we were to have sex one last time what would that look like. So I kind of went into details and she was into it of course. Well when we got home last night we were hanging out in the basement still talking when she got out of the shower. Of course we proceeded with touching and eventually some great sex again (probably maybe shouldn't have since I still have attachment and I feel she does as well). Well afterwards she said that was our last time. Whoa mind blown! I don't believe it will be though. Maybe it should be. But feel like we will have that between us. I feel like just backing off and letting her have her space. Let her find her way and if I'm here later then I am and if not then I'm better off for myself.

[Ready2Change]

You will get conflicting advise. Your job is to see and evaluate all of your options and pick the right one for you.

.....she came and sat next to me............Just listened to her talk about it. Full attention on her.........

Perfect...you should also validate her emotional state every so often....

...she said....

Do not trust her words....her behavior is what you want to pay attention to

How do I know where it went wrong and where I need to improve at with regards to the R

You measure your success by reviewing YOUR OWN ACTIONS to see if you are behaving the way YOU DECIDED you wanted to act. If you decide you want to let her phone calls go to VM, but then you answer the phone, you know you need to improve in this are of your life. If you are letting it go to VM, then you work on something else.

She told me today that when she came home last night she wanted to sneak up to my room. But decided not to because she doesn't want to give me the wrong impression or anything. Well later today we were talking while she was packing things in the basement. She asked me what I would do if she would have came up. Told her I am not even sure.

That response is acceptable.

W:"What would you have done if I came up?"
H:"Remember that time ( and then describe one of your better intimate moments)....Too bad you didn't come up (then wink and smile)...I got to go" then leave in the car.

That I am still attracted to her (probably shouldn't have done that).

Do not tell her you are attracted to her....

But she was leading me on during conversations about sex.

Softly reject her.

So is there harm with continuing the sex?

Depends on if she is having sex with other guys.

Conversations have been good if we don't talk about R or M.

Avoid R talk like the plague...Build sexual tension with her then be the first to leave. You want her desiring you.

[dleague]

Soo kind of finally got her to open up some tonight. She had been gone all day. I don't ask or anything anymore. But she usually fills me in. Well I asked her if I could ask/ talk with her about the R just a little with a question. So my question was I understand what she said when she told me that night of BD. And I'm not here to change her mind and only she can do that. But wanted to know why or where did we break?

She told me that it was 2019. When I told her "I don't know if I can do this anymore and I have to decide if I can do this with her or need to move on". She said that broke her because she never in a million years expected me to ever say anything like that. She said I was her world and she never imagined me not being there. She said that she tried to get past it and COVID happened and it just kind of went dormant and felt like maybe she would be able to get past it. She said when she told me that the way I dealt with it hurt her as well, that I kind of blew it off like she was over reacting. But she brought up the panic attack she had in 2021. It was pretty bad and lots of hyperventilating and crying and screaming for me to not leave her. She was begging me. I didn't know where it was coming from at the time, and realize it now. Told her I was here for her and not going anywhere. She said she felt like after COVID though that things got worse and there were other minor things said that hurt her. But she said her switch and she knew was when last month we were at a friend's wedding (on my birthday). We were dancing for the anniversary song too see how long people make it up there. She said she loved dancing with me but something clicked in her and she felt bad for all the women still up there that have dealt with years of sweeping stuff under the rug. And she didn't want to be that woman. That she wasn't going to let the wound just keep hurting and she needed to cut the source of the wound for her to heal.

She proceeded to tell me that she loves me but not in love with me anymore. And that she hopes I find someone to love because I have a great love to give even though I have childhood trauma and my parents [censored] me up emotionally she said. She wants me to be happy but she said it just won't be with her and that's how she felt. Told her the same thing that I want her to be happy above everything else.

She said the switch she felt was like the one she gave her dad years ago that she was just fine with cutting him out. She still loves him and wants the best for him but he isn't worth the pain to have in her life. She said we weren't toxic and we had a lot of great memories. And that is how she feels about her dad. That's what hurts is the memories and not necessarily him being in her life.

So not sure what I can even do that this point. I feel like she had that switch flip. Not sure if I can flip it back. If so I'm open to whatever I can do. I love this woman. I never meant to hurt her or even invalidate her feelings. She said the blame lies on both of us. But she has made this decision for herself and her future. She made need to have space to heal on her own I’m guessing?

[Valeska19]

She told me that it was 2019. When I told her "I don't know if I can do this anymore and I have to decide if I can do this with her or need to move on". She said that broke her because she never in a million years expected me to ever say anything like that. She said I was her world and she never imagined me not being there. She said that she tried to get past it and COVID happened and it just kind of went dormant and felt like maybe she would be able to get past it. She said when she told me that the way I dealt with it hurt her as well, that I kind of blew it off like she was over reacting. But she brought up the panic attack she had in 2021. It was pretty bad and lots of hyperventilating and crying and screaming for me to not leave her. She was begging me. I didn't know where it was coming from at the time, and realize it now. Told her I was here for her and not going anywhere. She said she felt like after COVID though that things got worse and there were other minor things said that hurt her. But she said her switch and she knew was when last month we were at a friend's wedding (on my birthday). We were dancing for the anniversary song too see how long people make it up there. She said she loved dancing with me but something clicked in her and she felt bad for all the women still up there that have dealt with years of sweeping stuff under the rug. And she didn't want to be that woman. That she wasn't going to let the wound just keep hurting and she needed to cut the source of the wound for her to heal.

Is there truth here to what she is saying? What's your perspective? Not in general rather of these specific events she listed.

[DnJ]

Hello dl

Yes, what you said in 2019 was hurtful to her. Not your finest moment on the heals of her diagnosis.

That she wasn't going to let the wound just keep hurting and she needed to cut the source of the wound for her to heal.

For what’s it worth, you are not the source of her pain. Your words certainly triggered feelings, yet the triggering affect of those words extinguished years ago. You cannot control her. And you are not powerful enough to cause her to continually feel a certain way. W is the source and reinforcement of her feelings. Like all people, she is owner of her own emotions. No one is responsible for how someone else feels.

Certainly, others can influence and trigger someone. Yet, one controls their thoughts, actions, and reactions. Through that, one influences themselves and exerts a control and accountability for their emotions/feelings.

She said the switch she felt was like the one she gave her dad years ago that she was just fine with cutting him out. She still loves him and wants the best for him but he isn't worth the pain to have in her life.

Sadly, she cuts out what she feels and believes is the cause and source, when she needs to look inward.

That's what hurts is the memories and not necessarily him being in her life.

If the recalling of events and memories brings forth pain and hurt, one has unresolved issues surrounding it. Holding a grudge, wanting vengeance, a negative self image, and such, are all factors in how much memories and words hurt.

To illustrate, two different people can have completely different emotional responses to the same stimulus. And people vary on how long they reinforce those triggered feelings.

How an other person makes you feel ultimately lies at the core of what you think/believe about yourself. No one can make anyone feel inferior (or anything else), without their consent. Be that consent realized or not.

Not sure if I can flip it back.

She controls herself. You cannot flip it back. However, you can positively influence. She can slowly place the switch in a different position. That’s slowly, it’s not going to be a fast flip.

I'm open to whatever I can do.

DB. From this day forward. Do better. Speak better. Be better.

Apologize for your ill chosen words. (I do understand the stress you were under, still state no excuses or reasons or justifications when apologizing. And keep your apology on target, the part you control - you.)

When presented with the opportunity, validate her feelings. Sincerely.

And yes, give her time and space. She’s a lot to burn through.

D

[dleague]

Is there truth here to what she is saying? What's your perspective? Not in general rather of these specific events she listed.

Yea I feel the events are right and her feelings on how she processed them. I feel like I had my part on them. She obviously has to process them how she sees them. I wasn't always the best support system. Was never one to deal with emotions and always was a mind over heart type of person. In the end I realize that emotions are valid and each person processes them differently and each person is valid in how they deal with them. I can't change the events or how I reacted to them. But I feel going forward it's something I need to work on ... Reactions and interpretation.

[dleague]

Hey DJ

Yes, what you said in 2019 was hurtful to her. Not your finest moment on the heals of her diagnosis.

Totally agree here. I wasn't the best of processing emotions. Was always a person who believed in mind over heart and not letting emotions control things.

For what’s it worth, you are not the source of her pain. Your words certainly triggered feelings, yet the triggering affect of those words extinguished years ago. You cannot control her. And you are not powerful enough to cause her to continually feel a certain way. W is the source and reinforcement of her feelings. Like all people, she is owner of her own emotions. No one is responsible for how someone else feels.

Certainly, others can influence and trigger someone. Yet, one controls their thoughts, actions, and reactions. Through that, one influences themselves and exerts a control and accountability for their emotions/feelings.

Totally agree here. I realize the older I've gotten that people process emotions differently and I'm not necessarily responsible for how they process. But I do play a part in things I say and how I respond to them and feelings validation was never something I gave and always believed in moving past them and life goes on sort of speaking. I feel like she has some pain besides the things I've said that she has to work on internally. Maybe space and Counseling will help her. I will remain a support system for her though.

Sadly, she cuts out what she feels and believes is the cause and source, when she needs to look inward.

Agreed. She feels like she is cutting me out and this needed for her to heal. Just my 2 cents. She also told me that we can't be having sex because it doesn't help either of us right now in healing. Even if we did the night before. Hard to accept but understand and never want her to feel any pressure to having it.

She controls herself. You cannot flip it back. However, you can positively influence. She can slowly place the switch in a different position. That’s slowly, it’s not going to be a fast flip.

Agree here 100 percent. I feel like I can not personally flip that switch. But I feel like maybe if I get real with myself and work on myself and her the same that we may cross paths later on. One thing she always said regarding her dad and when she cut him out is that she felt like he never truly tried to reconnect. He would just call. She said if he cared that we would come her and try to speak with her in person. That resonates with me. Maybe that's something I could eventually do in a sense to help. Stay involved without being pushy and needy. But being involved and around for her. She has a good support system and has been gone a lot more since this has all gone down. Which is fine. But feel like she is processing it how she sees she needs to and being around her friends helps her. Meanwhile I'm going to focus on myself and getting myself right but still be available if she wants to talk.

DB. From this day forward. Do better. Speak better. Be better.

Apologize for your ill chosen words. (I do understand the stress you were under, still state no excuses or reasons or justifications when apologizing. And keep your apology on target, the part you control - you.)

When presented with the opportunity, validate her feelings. Sincerely.

And yes, give her time and space. She’s a lot to burn through.

Agree here. Time and space is what she needs right now. She has to process this herself and I need to work on DB. Have the DB and DR books coming this week. Plan on starting DB first. I have apologized for my words and no excuses. I don't want to keep apologizing though as she knows I'm sorry and don't want to sound overly needed. Def feelings validation needs work. Still work in progress. But feel like I've gotten a tiny bit better on it. Needs to work on that along with getting myself right. Speaking more emotional and confident is something that needs improvement on my end. Never been a smooth talker so to speak. Not necessarily in that sense for this instance. But being able to recieve and react on things said and emotions displayed is something I need to work on.

Shall see how this goes. Honestly not sure. Feels like we get through the house selling I've not said anything else about the D. Main focus is the house right now. I she is going to move out before I do here so maybe that gives her some self reflecting time. But plan on moving out myself. Wait for her to bring up the D part. And me starting a new job here in the next few weeks will be good as well. Only concern is the remote part and being isolated. Plan on going to the gym and starting in some new hobbies though to get out. Winter and holidays coming in. Going to be an interesting next few months. Hard but feel like I have to just push through and keep working on myself. And maybe she will see that and maybe we could get things back slowly. But if not then I will be okay eventually. Pain is temporary. Even if it's for awhile. We all process differently.

[dleague]

So little bit of an update.

Monday I had IC twice that day, 2 different ones. The afternoon session one asked me what the W means to me and how I see her in my life going forward. Told him that at this point I don't even care about the M. I feel like I just want to start over. The W is an important person in my life and if anything I would hope we could remain friends at the least. He suggested I talk with the W and let her know how I feel since he feels that we still have an emotional connection and she has been open in sharing what caused us to get to this point. He said I only have so much time with her living here together and not to smother her but to let her know where I stand. So I did just that later in the day. Told her that I am not trying to change her mind. I plan on working on myself and getting myself right. But told her she is important to me and I hope that we can remain in each other's lives in some capacity after the D. She asked how would I be able to handle it if she was dating another person. I told her that it would hurt right now but I could probably be okay with it eventually. She knows that would hurt me she said she isn't trying to be in any other relationships but she is the type of person who does enjoy being with someone and in a relationship. This hurt. I understand though as I'm the same way. I asked her what we looked like after we went through the D. She said we aren't dating, and that we wouldn't be doing dinner or movies or anything like that. I asked if we are friends or enemies or what. She said no you are just my X. Conversations moved to talk about the finances and commission on the selling of the house since she is a real estate agent and she is listing the house. She wasn't happy that I was getting some of the commission and said I shouldn't be. I told her that she suggested I get some of it when we talked and she said she only did that so it would be over on that debate. She said her lawyer told her she could get more from me on alimony and she brought that up. We agreed to let her have the full commission if she kept it the same on the alimony. Conversations moved to lawyers. She said that if I don't file this week that she is planning on going ahead and filing. I asked her what the rush was and she said it's not rushing. We already agreed on everything and that this is something that needs to be done. She said she is the type of person that just gets stuff done, which I agree with in general. Told her I would talk with my lawyer and get things figured out. She had an appt and said we would continue to go through things later. Can't remember how the conversation went right before she left but she said I have narcissist tendencies and gaslighting. She has said this before. So I didn't understand what she meant so looked it up when she was gone. I balled my eyes out. After reading some of it I realized that I did in fact have some of that. Not extreme but can see and understand what she meant. She came home a little later and asked what's wrong and just told her I was unaware of these things I was doing and understood things some more. She moved in to give me a hug, first time that's happened in a bit (still only 2 weeks post BD though at this point). She rubbed my head and back while hugging. I balled. I couldn't hold it in. Just hurt. Well I had to leave for my night IC. Good discussions with him. Told him what happened. He said he isn't sure narcissist applies much and feels like it gets over used more than not. He felt like things are loving really fast and haven't had time to process myself. Told me I should ask for a few weeks to process. Well I came home and she was knocked out on the downstairs couch where she's been sleeping. So I proceeded to turn off the lights and TV for her. She woke up and asked what I was doing. Told her and she just rolled back over to sleep.

Well Tuesday rolled around. She hada rough morning called and asked if she could spend money getting breakfast, we have been letting each other know money since we still have the same bank accounts together. She said she was having a Ramsey day, which means her Ramsey Hunt is flaring up causing her to get dizzy and lightheaded and she said she was having a hard time standing told her of course. I offered to bring her food or even order door dash and she refused both. My heart broke for her cause I know how she has felt. I know the effects of it kicking up. I've been with her for years and have seen it and been there to help her through the years with it. I told her to be safe driving. I reached out later and asked how she was feeñingm she said better since she ate. Told her I was glad and just kind of left it at that. Well later on she got home and wanted to go through things since she wanted to get to laying down that night. But she was in a good mood and brought me home brownies her brother made. And asked me if I could rub her neck since it was tight and it helps. Told her of course. I was in a good mood as well and kept things light. It hurts having the physical touch knowing that we can't have that intimacy. But I will take any opportunity to still touch her and this helped her. Being I still cared I rubbed her neck. Well we moved into getting things separated. She said she was having a hard time doing all of this and selling the house. She asked if I was going to be around over the weekend cause one of her friends (who I know) she wanted to go spend the night there Friday and Saturday. They are doing the Halloween party there Saturday since we cancelled our big one and her work team already bought their costumes. So one girl said she would do it at her house. And she is going to church now Sunday with her boss. Her boss said W needs a break from all of this and asked her to join her and her family. I told her of course I would be here for our dogs. Had some other stuff to do but will be around. She said it would be just easier and good for her to get the weekend to spend away with her friend. So we went through things and she wanted to go through Christmas stuff as well that night even though we agreed to do it later after the move out. She wanted it done and wanted to declutter before we listed the house. I felt like this was alot on her considering the day she has had already and indicated she wanted to lay down but she insisted. So while doing that I probably shouldn't have asked but felt I could get a combo going. I asked her what she said the other day about how she felt bad for the women who have to sweep stuff under the rug and asked why she felt that way. She said that she felt that was the only way she was able to keep going on with me during the last few years. Told her that it didn't have to be that way. That we needed to work on the communication breakdown and felt like we had a good thing that could be saved. She said she doesn't want to. I asked her why she wouldn't consider it. She said she just didn't want to. I didn't understand but left it alone on getting back together. Told her that I just wish we could blow this all up and start over. Just learn to date again and be friends. Start from there. Well she said maybe. I was thinking whoa!!! I left it alone after that. Helped her finish going through stuff. She took her stuff and left to take it to her office. Where she has been storing her stuff for now. I asked her if she needed help since I knew she still was pushing through the things she was dealing with and was wore out. She said thank you but no thank you. So I let her go. I was hungry and offered to meet up on her way back to grab something since I knew she wasnt eating much as well. She said thank you but no thank you. I went on to bed

So I'm sure I broke about almost every rule in some sense. But felt like conversation was good over all. Some good and some not. Maybe it's me holding onto hope. I have good days and bad days. Just hard to see her leaving and pulling away. Felt like the 1st week she was still close and as the time has gone on she is pulling away more. Conversations feel good starting out but seem to deteriorate as they go on even in the same convos. Not sure on everything. I know she will be moving out before I do. So trying to take advantage of that time while she is her. It hurts to see her struggle and in the same time power through things. I've always been the person there to help her. And she won't let me know. One IC told me he thinks she is pulling away and pushing things because she feels like she may go back on her decision if she doesn't push things. Talked with 2 mutual friends yesterday and they both don't understand this all either and thought we were a good couple and ones to look up to. Seems to be the norm I've heard. I'm trying to move on myself and focus on that but it's been hard with everything going on with selling the house and having her here and trying to go through things. So many memories and years of a life we built together. She said it hurts her to do this. I feel the same. So not sure what to do at this point. She is pushing the D and lawyers. I'm going to hold her to going to counseling though. She said if I sign papers then she would do counseling. I feel like there is more going on that she isn't opening up and hoping maybe going to counseling would help at least air things out some and bring some understanding. Maybe it's me not wanting to understand. Maybe shes got other reasons for this. Just taking it one day at a time right now. Bout all I can do. It hurts. Good days and bad days and some times both in the same day......

[Boat14]

DL you really should print off Sandis rules and start implementing them immediately to prevent yourself from digging a deeper hole you can never climb out of in the future. Be prepared for 2x4s that will hurt now but will help you in the long run.

She asked how would I be able to handle it if she was dating another person. I told her that it would hurt right now but I could probably be okay with it eventually. She knows that would hurt me she said she isn't trying to be in any other relationships but she is the type of person who does enjoy being with someone and in a relationship. This hurt.

When this is over trust me you will not want to be friends with her.

Can't remember how the conversation went right before she left but she said I have narcissist tendencies and gaslighting. She has said this before. So I didn't understand what she meant so looked it up when she was gone. I balled my eyes out. After reading some of it I realized that I did in fact have some of that.

Yes this is a very common theme. Being a man you probably do have some narcasisstic traits bu that doesn't make you a narcissist.

Not extreme but can see and understand what she meant. She came home a little later and asked what's wrong and just told her I was unaware of these things I was doing and understood things some more. She moved in to give me a hug, first time that's happened in a bit (still only 2 weeks post BD though at this point). She rubbed my head and back while hugging. I balled. I couldn't hold it in. Just hurt.

You really need to try hard not to cry in front of her. Try to let that out when you are alone.

Well I had to leave for my night IC. Good discussions with him. Told him what happened. He said he isn't sure narcissist applies much and feels like it gets over used more than not.

Your IC is correct.

Well she said maybe. I was thinking whoa!!! I left it alone after that. Helped her finish going through stuff. She took her stuff and left to take it to her office. Where she has been storing her stuff for now. I asked her if she needed help since I knew she still was pushing through the things she was dealing with and was wore out. She said thank you but no thank you. So I let her go. I was hungry and offered to meet up on her way back to grab something since I knew she wasnt eating much as well. She said thank you but no thank you. I went on to bed

She doesn't mean it. She is just saying it to get her way and you to agree with everything she wants and to do it when she wants.

So I'm sure I broke about almost every rule in some sense.

Just about. DB is hard, especially in the beginning.

But felt like conversation was good over all.

These conversations are NEVER good. What makes you think they are good? She is still full steam ahead on the D train.

I have good days and bad days. Just hard to see her leaving and pulling away. Felt like the 1st week she was still close and as the time has gone on she is pulling away more. Conversations feel good starting out but seem to deteriorate as they go on even in the same convos.

You will have good days and bad days for a really long time. It will get easier.

Not sure on everything. I know she will be moving out before I do. So trying to take advantage of that time while she is her. It hurts to see her struggle and in the same time power through things. I've always been the person there to help her. And she won't let me know.

That's why you need to give her space.

One IC told me he thinks she is pulling away and pushing things because she feels like she may go back on her decision if she doesn't push things.

Right now she is 100% convinced she is doing the right thing.

Talked with 2 mutual friends yesterday and they both don't understand this all either and thought we were a good couple and ones to look up to. Seems to be the norm I've heard.

Yep everyone on this baord has heard the same thing from friends.

I'm trying to move on myself and focus on that but it's been hard with everything going on with selling the house and having her here and trying to go through things.

The more you distance yourself from her the easier it will be to move on.

So many memories and years of a life we built together. She said it hurts her to do this.

Apparently not enough to make her stay.

So not sure what to do at this point. She is pushing the D and lawyers.

Give her time and space.

I'm going to hold her to going to counseling though. She said if I sign papers then she would do counseling.

Well first off you can't hold her to anything. Second off counseling would only make matters worse.

I feel like there is more going on that she isn't opening up and hoping maybe going to counseling would help at least air things out some and bring some understanding.

Yeah my spidey sense says there is another guy who will be at that Halloween party.

Maybe it's me not wanting to understand. Maybe shes got other reasons for this. Just taking it one day at a time right now. Bout all I can do. It hurts. Good days and bad days and some times both in the same day......

She wants to be with a man who makes her feel alive. You are not that man right now. You can be if you so choose but it will take a lot of work. Are you up for that challenge?

[Thornton]

DL,

I haven't had time to read your entire story but I read your last post.

These things are very predictable after you've been here for a while.

The fastest way to get her back, is to let her go. Trust me. It's the best chance you have. It worked for me (although that relationship ended a few years later).

Counseling with her? Nope! Don't do it. She will use that as an opportunity to say "I tried, and not even counseling could fix our problem" She will do that to relieve herself from any guilt and tell friends and family she did everything to save the marriage.

You have to exhibit strength, no more crying, moping etc. Save that for your friends, family, and the DB board.

Basically, you want to get to the point that she starts to fear losing YOU. You do this by starting to act like you're fine with her leaving. You don't act like a jerk, you just start to act like you have had an awakening and you now realize life is going to be great with our without her. You start to give off a vibe, that you know you're the man. That you know you're attractive. You start to glow.

I know all of this is so hard to do when the pain is literally eating you alive, but you must fake it until you make it.

How do you deal with the pain? You start by GAL. For me it was the gym, and I started mountain biking. I still do both to this day and it's been years since my sitch. Take dance lessons. Go skydiving. Cooking lessons. Pick up a sport. Go back to school.

At first you will do these things in hopes of getting her back. But eventually, your confidence will grow and you'll start doing them because you love them. Once you get to the point where you are no longer looking over your shoulder to see if she's noticing your changes, is when she might come back.

Time takes time, use it your advantage.