Been awhile since I posted. Short summary: Bd 4/22, typical by the book interaction. Admitted there was om. Didn’t think she wanted to work things out. Next day she said she would end it with om and work on us. Caught them together at a park. She moved out. Gave her ultimatum-end the affair now or we’re through (I had not discovered DB yet). She ended it and moved home on Memorial Day ‘22. Things were rough, she obviously wasn’t happy being back home with me and we fought a lot. I discovered DB and started trying my best to db. Wasn’t always successful. I left out that om was a coworker. In February of 23 my father in law became ill and bedridden in a care facility. Suddenly she tells me that everything is good with us despite telling me not more than a week earlier that she wasn’t happy, didn’t know what to do. I understood that our relationship needed to take a back seat to the problems her dad was having. Did my best to be supportive and put our r on the back burner. In October 23 fil moved in with us. Mil also. Super stressful 6 months then fil took a turn for the worse. He passed away 4/24.
Fast forward to now. I am struggling daily to believe she really wants to be with me. Still works closely with om despite me expressing that I will never be comfortable with it. Our r lacks any feeling of closeness. I don’t think it will ultimately work. I feel lonely and unloved most of the time. I try occasionally to plan alone time or a date night and it very rarely works out. I have mostly stopped that. Our last dinner out ended badly. We were back home sitting outside talking. I went in the house for a drink and heard her phone beep from a missed call. Looked to see if our son or daughter had called as they were out. It was om. I was angry and ultimately instigated a huge fight. Right or wrong, I lost my cool. Of course it was all my fault and I’m never going to get over it or forgive her. Doesn’t matter that he called, apparently I should not think it was a problem, he probably just accidentally called. I left out that he showed up to the funeral home after my fil passed and hugged her while I was talking to some other people.
I really don’t know what to do. I still love her and want to be with her. I don’t believe she wants to be with me yet she is still here. I might be causing myself pain because I’m am having trust issues and don’t want to be naive. I think if she was serious about our relationship she would find a new job and put some effort into the relationship. At times I tell myself to just move on and start over. I still love her and the thought of leaving her breaks my heart.
I'll be honest with you, I accepted my ex back for an attempt at reconciliation. At the time she worked with OM, through marriage counselling it was suggested that she find a new workplace, but she insisted that she liked the job, as she likely was enjoying the attention from him and she was surrounded by women who were "living their best life".
I was ok at first with her continuing to work there if I saw progress and her putting effort into fixing our marriage. Although I was willing to allow her to stay at her work while reconciling, the last straw for me was when she told me without any shame or guilt that the OM had given her feedback about our relationship. This was the day I kicked her out of the house the last time and we have never lived together since.
Had I seen even a smidgen of effort from her in the reconciliation and a willingness to change her behaviour I would have tried to work things through. I do not regret kicking her out, now a year later I realize that no one should have to live that way or subject oneself from such bookish behaviour. We cannot force anyone who is lost to find their way. It has to be in their heart for it to ever work, no amount of twisting or turning will change that.
Last edited by DnJ; 08/12/2404:58 PM. Reason: Corrected couple of typos.
I’m glad to hear from you. I did merge your new thread with your previous open one.
I noticed the title change - Needing direction. I am sorry you find yourself feeling less Moving forward now.
(BTW, titles can be altered/updated on any new post. However, the displayed title on the front page comes from the title of the first post in the thread. I can edit/update that if you either, to match the current one. Just let me know.)
My condolences on the passing of your FIL. (((Hug)))
As you know, I’ve had a taste of the stress you and W lived for six months. Super stressful indeed.
Is MIL still living with you? Where did she move from? Her home or a care home as well?
As to your R, W (and you) took a pause during that six months. Also, the death of the father needs to be grieved. That will take time. Likely quite a bit of time for her, given her demonstrated propensity for sweeping things/feelings under the rug. Be patient. Deep dig.
Originally Posted by MikeP
I am struggling daily to believe she really wants to be with me.
I hear you.
It takes purposeful effort to alter a belief.
Originally Posted by MikeP
I don’t believe she wants to be with me yet she is still here.
Yes, she is there.
You control you. Remove wording/thinking like “still”. You are thinking/feeling/believing something like the other shoe is about to drop, all the time. Worrying yourself sick. And no amount of worrying ever prevented anything. Though, it can unwittingly influence towards fruition the very thing one is worrying about.
I do understand and empathize. I’d not want to be caught being naive either. And that of course leads to lack of trusting. The wording “trust issues” in my opinion detracts - there is no issue, you simply don’t trust her.
The “issue” part is within you. Perfectly understandable. Trauma, betrayal, and such cuts deep. It hurts, it wounds, it is hard to heal from. Lack of trusting is a symptom of what’s really hurting you. Treating the symptom won’t heal the deep wounds.
Originally Posted by MikeP
I really don’t know what to do.
Work on healing from betrayal. Find/practice forgiveness. Let go of needing retribution. Avoid retaliation. Find your peace.
Read Divorce Remedy, again. Pull back on the R-talks and demands. W needs to grieve her Dad, and that will come out in all kinds of ways.
Originally Posted by MikeP
I still love her and want to be with her.
Do so. While focusing on you. Becoming your best version, MikeP2.0. A man only a fool would leave.
There are no guarantees except that which you put in. All your growth will have dividends regardless of outcome of situation. And gives you your best chance at saving your marriage/relationship.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Hey MikeP. Glad to see an update. Sorry to hear about the current struggles. As DNJ says, and as unnatural or counterintuitive as it feels, you must work on what you can control: yourself. Work toward the best of yourself so that you feel your best and can act as only your best self can. It is different than being selfish. This self-orientation is about your well-being. Your sanity. Your health. Yes, it would help if you worked on empathy and validation when given an opportunity with W.
Healing and forgiveness are for you; not necessarily W. The "guarantee" (as DNJ suggests) is that, more often than not, if we work on ourselves, truly, no matter what the outcome of our relationships, we can feel confident we're doing the best we can.
Seeming sad or desperate isn't attractive. To paraphrase the old saying, detachment makes the heart grow fonder (if there is a chance it will). Are you working on getting a life of your own? Becoming a bit mysterious? Doing 180s from the habits and behaviors that may have contributed to your current situation.
Copy and paste Sandy's rules into a note on your phone. Work on executing them. Re-engage in a hobby or interest you've put aside or start one that you've hoped to start. W has to go through whatever W needs to go through. You didn't break her; you can't fix her. The right actions might attract her back to you. But work to be more attractive for any potential partner or friends or family who might prefer to spend time with you. I've not read back through your thread to see if you have an individual therapist or perhaps a program at work that enables at least some short-term therapy visits for you. If you can, I recommend it. And, keep posting her. We'll help how we can.
So I had a long post typed out and lost it 😡. Anywho…I got a call from the om’s current girlfriend a few weeks ago. W has been talking to him again for several months. She told me enough details to know she wasn’t lying. Confirmed it with W later that day. Says they were just talking as friends. I don’t believe it, according to the gf W was telling him how unhappy she is, how badly I treat her, and trying to get back with him so she could leave me. Supposedly she was blowing up his phone while they were on vacation and that’s how she caught them. Short version is she’s leaving her job and going no contact with him or it’s over for us. I know that’s not dbing and I’ll catch flack for it on here. That’s ok, it’s where I am at this point. She was very apologetic, for the first time ever and swears it’s over, wants me, blah blah blah. Time will tell. She asked why I keep putting up with her and why don’t I just end it. My immediate response was because I made a vow 27 years ago that said for better or worse. I wonder if that’s the truth or if I have an unhealthy attachment to her/the relationship. The last week or so has been very calm on my part. Very detached and just doing my own thing. We spend time together and I also make time to be alone as well.
You are not detached, she stills brings you comfort and it feels good. You don't want to lose that feeling and she is still on a ruder less boat in the middle of a storm. She still wants to have her cake and eat it, there's no incentive for her to not keep things the way they are, she can switch emotionally back and forth between you and OM. She will be mean to you and treat you as an enemy when things have hope with OM and when they have disagreements or things aren't going well she will be kind to you, you will be her comfort pillow. This will go on back and forth, tugging at your emotions and breaking you down slowly. The healing and acceptance process will get delayed and prolonged. She needs to understand she can lose you for good. Right now that's not on her mind. Her apologetic words are theater, she wants you to end it because it removes the guilt from her and allows her the freedom to do what she feels without consequence, although she isn't ready for the consequence of you actually ending it. You need to detach your mood/feelings from her.
I definitely wasn’t detached, now I just feel calm. More than ever. I’ve really resigned myself to believing it’s over. Right or wrong I’ve given her an ultimatum and I will follow through with it. In the past I asked her to find a new job, now it’s a requirement. Scary thing is she never treats me bad in terms of anger, quite the opposite. That’s what makes it even harder to understand.
I also think you’re right about her wanting me to end it to remove the guilt from her. The apologies may have been theater, if so it’s a new thing. Her theater before was to immediately cry until it got to me. That eventually stopped working. I obviously still love her however she doesn’t bring me comfort any longer. I feel indifferent towards her most of the time. It seems like she is a total stranger. I know it’s “normal” that they backslide but after 2 years of thinking we were working through this I really feel done. By that I mean I’m not angry or sad, just numb. It shouldn’t have taken this long to realize she isn’t the person I used to know. Or thought I knew. Some of that may seem contradictory, sorry. It’s hard to put these things into words.
Short version is she’s leaving her job and going no contact with him or it’s over for us. I know that’s not dbing and I’ll catch flack for it on here.
No flak from me.
Ultimatums are about timing. In the beginning, most LBS are far too scared, hurt, sad, etc. to follow through. That makes such statements empty threats which when/if called just erode things further. Most “early” ultimatums are trying to manipulate the other person.
Time and space. Focusing on you. In time, the LBS heals, does their inner work, and becomes. They stand tall, know their value, their faith, themselves. The journey of strengthening that which serves, crafting that which one aspires to, and discarding that which no longer, or doesn’t, serve.
The LBS understands control. How they control only themselves.
During this time, one’s spouse has time to burn through their emotions. Their infatuation, their anger, their upset. Maybe even feel lost, regret, remorse, guilt, shame, and so on. Or not. The spouse’s path and the LBS’ are individual, and may or may not converge at a opportune time, or at all.
Time.
Control.
The LBS finds themselves.
Is it an ultimatum or a boundary? Are you controlling you? Your actions?
For me, I have a rock solid boundary for any reconciliation: If XW is involved with OM, she is not involved with me.
That’s involved in any capacity! Period. Yes, he sells eggs around town. So what, buy them at the store. She will have no contact, ever, with him again.
Just one of the requisite items on my list of how to demonstrate consistent behaviour to foster/regain trust.
Of course, XW and I haven’t even spoke in seven years. She’s very much still running. And involved with OM. lol. (In truth, at this point, I’m kind of rooting for the two of them to remain together.)
Anyhow, your boundary, I get it. No contact with OM. “Oh, but he is a good friend.” So what! There are 8 billion other people on the planet, pick one, because: If he is in your life, I’m not.
That’s the level of commitment and demonstrated behaviour I’d have to see before opening my heart and home to my XW. The actual implementation of such, would be along the lines of her and I dating while living separately. A contiguous twelve month countdown of no contact with OM before I’d consider her moving in. Any contact, and the timer resets. 12 months. A year. Time to demonstrate to me and herself she’s ready and truly wanting a relationship.
You, however, are under the same roof.
Originally Posted by MikeP
She was very apologetic, for the first time ever and swears it’s over, wants me, blah blah blah. Time will tell.
Yes, time will tell.
Clearly state your boundary to W. Be precise. (To yourself as well.)
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thanks D. Maybe it’s a boundary rather an ultimatum. She said she wants to stay with me and fix our marriage. My answer was prove it, find another job and stop all contact with om. If you can’t do that then it is time for me to move on without you. She agreed. I don’t think it’s too much to ask of her at this point.
