I'm ready to blast outta this marriage, once and for all! Several months ago, I purchased and read SSM. I was so excited by the book that I mentioned it to my wife (the LD spouse) and to our marriage therapist. A couple months ago, we stopped seeing the therapist, thinking we could get by on our own for awhile, but little has changed in the sex area. This was my main issue with my wife, and it has long been my main issue. This past March, we were on the verge of divorcing, it had got so bad between us. She had issues about me, and I had mine about her. The sex problem, she said, was something that she "understood" and was more than willing to correct.
It is now the back half of August, and I'm watching and waiting, seeing if our sex life will improve beyond the once/month (at BEST) that I've experienced. Here's a sample of what I'm dealing with:
She says that she can see a normal sex life for us being about twice/week, yet we're still once/month (again, at best).
She said that she would give me pointers on when it would be a good time to approach her for sex. That was four months ago. Have yet to hear anything on this.
In our last therapy session in June, she asked if there was anything I needed from her. I told her that I wanted her to finish reading SSM (she got as far as page 91), and do the exercise that envisions what her ideal sex life with me might look like; what would she want from me, what would she see herself doing for me, etc., so we could compare notes and talk about it. She assured me that she would. That was two months ago, and the book hasn't been cracked since then.
We just went to Mexico for a week, just her and I, without our two daughters. We had some sex, but it was unimpressive, and she got more pleasure from it than I did. Nevertheless, she did try. The feeling I walk away with though is this: why do I have to pay $4000 for a getaway vacation just to make love to my wife? WHY CAN'T THIS JUST HAPPEN NATURALLY, AS PART OF LIFE??
I know that Michele W.D. is anti-divorce. She makes a good case for it in the book. But, on pages 117 - 118, she details the story of a woman who finds a wonderful sex life after divorce. True, this woman had problems being intimate with H#1, for reasons she mentions, but she made the jump and seems to be grateful for it. In that last therapy session, the therapist asked my wife if there was anything she needed from me, and she said "No, he's great!". That said, I don't know what else I can do.
So, if you have any advice that can help, I'm listening. I'm willing to test this until the end of the year, and if things are the same, I'll have to say "adios". My father is sexually active into his seventies. I'm 42, so I hope to have a lot of sexually active years ahead of me. I am resigning myself to decades of frustration with this wife, if I decide to "accept" her the way she is. Sex isn't something I "want", it's something I NEED. I do not want to cheat, but I'm afraid that I will if this continues. Men and women have enough differences between them, and I think sex is the great unifier of the sexes. Without it, I feel dead. I have been increasingly suicidal of late, feeling like there's no other way out. My kids keep me from applying that fate to myself.
So, should I blast out of here, or stay on the launching pad for more servicing? Any, and all, advice will be appreciated.
I see you're here at last throwing up your hands in frustration. And you do sound frustrated and angry but hold on a minute. Its always easier for an outsider to see things from a different point of view from you.
For instance, I pick up a lot of negativity from your posts. Maybe its just your frustration showing through but you make it sound like you think that this is all your W's problem that SHE is the one with the problem. She isn't doing anything to fix it, you're still waiting etc but what about you? Are you working on you? Maybe you should try a different approach?
She had issues about me In that last therapy session, the therapist asked my wife if there was anything she needed from me, and she said "No, he's great!".
This sounds contradictory. Maybe you have to think harder about what issues she has about you and work on those?
The feeling I walk away with though is this: why do I have to pay $4000 for a getaway vacation just to make love to my wife?
I'm sorry Cloudnine but this sounds awful to me even as a HD spouse. I would love for my H to take me away for a naughty weekend but more than that I would love for him to take me away because he wants to spend time with me and enjoys my company not because he wants sex and besides you did say "Nevertheless, she did try" which is a lot more than what the other spouses here are getting.
I do see a lot of positives coming from your W. She did go to therapy with you, she did try, she even read up to pg 91 of the book (most wouldn't even read pg 1, just the title is enough to put them off). Maybe you just need her different approach to awaken the fires within her.
Sorry, I don't think I have been of much help you don't give enough details so your sitch is not very clear, still the above is what I read from it. Some others, like Corri for example will be able to give you a wonderful perspective to what you are experiencing. Good luck. LH
Hi, and thanks for the feedback. We went to therapy, and I immediately set about to correct the problems she had with me. I cleaned up my side of the street, hence the "He's fine" response in the last therapy session. I was concerned enough, and serious enough, about her issues with me, that I immediately set about to change. I would like the same from her. After all, she always kept saying "I get it!", meaning she understood what my sole issue was with her. She said she was willing to change, but there is little action to change. I don't really feel like a priority to her.
As for the trip, we had fun. I looked forward to the trip, and we managed to have a great time. But, also wouldn't you think this is a great time to renew that intimacy in our lives, and maybe come back home with some momentum? I thought so, but was mistaken.
Yes, you sense negativity. I'm very resentful to her, although I do my best to keep it under my skin. Where's this resentment going to go? What's the point of keeping this together? Why not just cut the cord? How long is a couple supposed to live this way? It is totally unhealthy.
Men and women aren’t all that different. They both do things primarily because of some benefit for themselves. You made the changes your wife requested not primarily because of her desires, but because of your own desire for more sex. You believed that if you changed these things then you would get more sex from her. You are experiencing resentment because that didn’t happen. If you had done it just for her, the fact that she has no problems with you as a spouse would be sufficient reward and you wouldn’t be experiencing resentment. Your primary motivation was for yourself. She’s no different. Improving your sex life is on her to-do list, but it is there for you not for her. This will put it lower on the list. You want to see movement on her part, she has to have a reason to move it up on the priority list FOR HERSELF.
Example: I was motivated as the variable desire (doesn’t abbreviate well) partner to improve our sex life because *I* missed my sexual desire. I was motivated because *I* saw major benefits for myself to having my H feel he was extremely happily married. I was motivated because *I* feel really good being able to make him feel good, less stressed, etc. The primary motivator was NOT my H’s sexual desires.
The caveat is that she has to discover what’s in it for her for herself. Are your discussions about sex mostly or all about your needs and how she should fulfill your sexual needs? What benefits will she see for herself if she makes the effort to increase the frequency of sex? Pride in achieving a goal? Feeling good about herself because she made someone else feel good (i.e. you)? Fewer arguments in her life? These are just possibilities. Only your wife will be able to come up with what will motivate her to move it up on her priority list.
Hmmmm...thank you MPT for telling me my motivation. Silly me, but I thought I was changing my behavior because it was important to her and because my prior behavior almost put us in divorce court. I thought I wanted to save my marriage, and make my wife happy. But you have opened my eyes, and now I realize that I'm just a selfish bastard. I see little reason to have any "discussions" about sex with my W, because everything she's said she'd do, she's done the opposite. She's never been as direct as you have been, and if she had, we'd be a lot better off becasue it would be HONEST.
I thought this might be a good place to find some support, but I'm finding the situations and advice somewhat pathetic....One man (Sooner) goes a month without touching his wife, doesn't mention sex, then makes an effort to touch her...she rolls her eyes like "there he goes again...wanting SEX", and he feels guilty for touching her, like it's some sort of relapse...("why did I let myself fall of the wagon, and touch my wife!!!"). And this behavior in him is encouraged by his supporters. Another man recommends to another that he take Benadryl before going to bed so as to reduce his urges for sex. Great advice: drug yourself into being an LD partner!! Seems like that's the thrust of the advice....come down to the LD level, and STAY THERE!
Thanks for the support, and for telling me what I REALLY think.
What was your response to her in therapy when she said "he's fine?" During that last session did you tell her and the therapist that there were still things you were unhappy about? Did you point blank tell her that you didn't feel that she was putting the effort you needed into giving you the things you had ask for?
I'm curious because if you didn't how is she supposed to know you are still unhappy. Especially so unhappy that you have put her on a time line. Does she know that she has a certain amount of time and then you will be leaving the marriage? I can understand your frustration but let me say this....just because you changed doesn't mean she will automatically do the same. I agree with a great deal that MP posted. Your wife isn't going to make any changes in herself until she is shown what is in it for herself.
You don't need to be having the feelings you are having now and not communicating them with your wife. If you haven't had a discussion with her and let her know that you don't feel she has made any changes and that you are thinking about leaving then you are taking away from her the very thing that might motivate her to really try and make some needed changes.
I agree with you about sooner. If his wife would put 1/4 of the energy into the problems as he does the problem would be solved. The message that is being perpetuated here....the one that says we should feel guilty about a natural god given urge is very damaging. What any of us should feel is enough self-respect and respect for the other person to work constructively toward finding a solution. Feeling guilty because you want to touch your wife after a month is no solution, only a way to make the problems worse. Can you imagine the kind of resentment that is going to start growing in him if he continues to have those feelings? Goodness, what some people won't do to themselves! Cathy~
Thanks Cathy. That's a response I can stomach. In our therapy sessions, it was a regular topic. She knew that, as long as she was trying, making an effort, I was happy about that. But since our last session, she's abandoned everything she said she'd do, and seems to have reverted to her old ways. She does not know that I have a timeline. I'm going to give it a couple more months, and if things don't change, I plan to lay my cards on the table and tell her that I feel I'm at a dead-end and that I'm willing to leave. I don't expect to change her, so I don't know what she'll say, or do, in response. I'm afraid that we're hopelessly incompatible in the physical sense. If she at least TRIED, I would recognize that in her and try to be grateful for it. She is a stunning woman, my wife, but she feels so inaccessible, and it is beyond frustrating for me. Practically zero responsiveness from her. I don't understand it, and she doesn't seem very interested in discovering things about herself sexually. I'm not sure that I'm willing to accept the suppression of my sexuality in a marriage. It's not what I want. I have many friends who are married and have very healthy sex lives after 20+ years together. They do it for each other, because it is important to each spouse. I don't feel important to my wife any longer.
I understand your frustration with some of the advice that you get on these BBS, Some of it is excellent, some preachy, some just will not fit your personality of situation. But people will listen, and that is something that I apperciate more than anything else. I need these forums to scream, rant, and cry all at the same time because I can't do it at home, it just makes the situation worse. I can only lean on my friends so much before they have had enough, too.
We all have the frustration of trying to work through this hellish existance of a celibate or semi celibate marriage which really takes its toll on us. If nothing else, there are many people here that underststand your pain and frustration. Even if we can't give you the advice that will solve your problem, we can help you vent your feelings.
Quoting Cloudnine: As for the trip, we had fun. I looked forward to the trip, and we managed to have a great time. But, also wouldn't you think this is a great time to renew that intimacy in our lives, and maybe come back home with some momentum? I thought so, but was mistaken.
I think you mentioned somewhere in your post to MPT that your W has never been direct/honest thus giving you little reason to have discussions about sex with your W. Now isnt that not being direct/honest with her as well? She probably thinks that whatever she is trying is good enough for you. Have you told her otherwise? Communication in a M is so important. Just imagine this, if you fail to let her know your continued resentment which is clearly evident to all here, you go away on a trip together and have a great time together and then come back and tell her you want a D. Your W will think her H has gone mad. If you're not happy with the sitch, I think you should let her know instead of seething with resentment internally. Since she seems willing to try, tell her what you have said here. Tell her that she has made false promises and needs to do more. Maybe even be more specific as to how much more. Perhaps that might help? Good luck to you. LH
Hey, I’m sorry my post got you so upset. Given that you thought I was calling you a selfish bastard, not too surprising you would get upset. I didn’t call you that though and I rather doubt that you are.
Whether you made changes in yourself to get sex or to save you marriage the point is the same. You were getting ready to lose something important to you when divorce seemed imminent. The same applies to your wife. Just be sure you mean it if you tell her you’ll file for divorce if the sex situation doesn’t improve, because you may end up divorced. Your wife may “get it” in that she understands it is really, really important to you and it does wonderful things for you. She may not get that you would be willing to end your marriage because of it. That is a different level of “getting it.” Keep in mind though she may decide she doesn’t want to stay married either under those conditions. Life is about choices.
BTW, I think there are many more options for motivations besides threat of loss. But the key is to find what is motivating for her. One of the problems I see “HD” spouses running into is that they try to convince their spouse of what they see as the benefits to sex rather than exploring what a more active sex life might do for their spouse. The benefits of a more active sex life for a lower drive spouse may be more indirect, such as seeing the relaxed expression on their spouses face and knowing they helped put it there. Since the benefits may be more indirect, it takes a little more exploration.
