My story. Sorry it’s a long read... please let me know if it is for this forum.
My W and I met online in 2009. I was 38 and she was 27. We took to each other right away as we shared same interests and goals. We both wanted kids and knew that from the start. To me, she was someone I especially connected with because once I got to know her better I recognized that she was, way more mature than her youth would suggest, and a fighter (literally. When we met she was training for a championship boxing fight which she won.) Initially, though, we broke up because she pursued me hard, and my mind flagged that, but then the attraction was impossible to bear. When we reunited we became inseparable and things were great for a while. Fast forward, three miscarriages, a successful pregnancy, a couple of university degrees, career blowing up into an all consuming monster, and 6 years later I started to realize we were in trouble. I will fully acknowledge that I bear a part of the responsibility for what happened. I was clueless, and frankly pretty inexperienced, this being longest relationship of my life. It doesn’t help that I’m a relentless problem-solver and just super motivated when challenged. I’m finding out now that these are great to have, depending on how they are applied in relationship repair, and if you don’t understand how these can damage things further, well, I stepped on every mine in that field. However, my heart always went out to her because she was someone worth fighting for.
Anyway, we were both stressed and fighting a lot. After reading many books on relationships, especially everything by John Gottman, I realize that we went through every typical phase of relationship break-up. We were just awfully dysfunctional. There was no violence or name-calling, but we couldn’t connect to that place we had in the beginning. Now, my issues were that I thought I could push my way through and solve any problem in life. Ok, she wants more help with the kid. Done. She wants me to do more stuff around the house. No problem. However, I started to notice that more and more of these things were offloaded onto me, the more she seemed hurt and distant. There was just no reaching a bar that kept creeping up further and further up away from me. At some point during this I worked myself into a co-dependency where I started to sacrifice more and more in order to try and re-establish contact with my now way-ward wife. One Christmas she got drunk, and after I went to bed her and my (very charismatic) brother stayed up to chat. They were drinking a lot that night, and at some point she made a move on him. My brother politely turned her down, and chalked it off to drunkenness so he didn’t tell me. I only found out a year later, after she told me, probably in hope I would end our relationship (more on this sort of behavior later). I wrote it off as drunkenness as well, and after we talked about it she apologized and we got on with living a family life. That’s when she said the “I love you but not in love with you”. In spite of this we decided to try and work things out.
Now here’s something to understand about my W. She’s a people pleaser, and ironically for the path she chose in life a pathological avoider of confrontation. My attempts at coaxing her to open up were always like teeth-pulling sessions. By the time she would say anything a lot of time and a lot of seething has already passed. The resentment just kept building for both of us.
Then in 2015 she was offered a job in a small town 200 kilometers from the city we lived in. In her field full-time positions are rare (she’s a college professor), so it was a no brainer that we go. We started to talk more and open up about our issues so it seemed that a change of scenery might be just the thing we need. I managed to talk my company into letting me work remotely so on two salaries our life was made. It helped that we moved to a cheaper area where we could actually afford a house. Then, she became pregnant again. This time I resolved to be more present with support as that was one of her complaints during the first pregnancy, and things seemed to be ok. Then the baby came, and a full F9 tornado descended onto our lives. I realize now that she had a massive post-partum episode where she started to bad mouth me to our mutual friends, being angry or depressed all the time. We both knew of the post-partum being like that, but it was as if she was a different person. That was the point of the first bomb-drop. She asked to separate. Being stressed out, and completely overwhelmed while trying to see to the needs of a second time-mother, I didn’t react well to this. By then I was fully enthralled in my codependency and didn’t know night from day. Then as a few months went by and things seem to stabilize, we seemed to reconcile. How wrong was I By then I was exhausted and burnt out. I ended up losing my job, hich was ok because I figured I could get something local after I took a break. But then, my own depression started and things got worse and worse. The whole time my W is pretending everything is ok. I learned later that’s a typical stage of what we were going through. Unfortunately she was extremely good at it. So while things started to relax for me, we started to wind our way out of the bleakness... so I thought.
Here is where it takes a bizarre turn. Things are ok for a while, and one day, while walking through a neighborhood we liked we chanced on a house that was for sale. It was a beautiful house, and unique and seemed right for us. We talked about it and decided things were going well enough ok to buy it. So we did.
Here I am again thinking things are ok. Nope. Soon after the purchase we start fighting again, but this time the stone-walling on her side is dialed up to 11. It was impossible to have a rational conversation with her as she would get flooded quickly and no argument would change her narrative. Enter her request for separation #2, but this time she’s adamant. Something went off in my brain and my fear response went off the scale. I’m a pretty strong and collected guy. I’ve been to places in the world where people were trying to kill me and I haven’t been scared as much as the night she said she wanted out. I did the usual round of all the wrong things to do; the pleading, threatening, describing the irrationality of her stance. It just made things worse. She would not be moved. Then I started to realize she’s on her phone texting a lot with someone. So of-course I snoop and find out shes having an EA with a guy from her PHD class. I lose my mind, but to my credit I just then found the DB web site and started to absorb and apply a lot of the techniques described there. I take off for a few weeks to be with my sister and her new baby. Then my W calls me. She says that she thought about things, she misses me, and would like us to keep trying. I come back into town just in time for her to have a nervous breakdown. She can’t work and is completely incapacitated. I try to help, and am thinking this might be the catharsis that might make her seek help for her own issues (more on this later). She finally agrees to go to get IC, we both do actually. Things get better. Then a year later, we’re alone in the car, driving to the next town, and I broach the subject of her being distant since her breakdown. Out comes “I don’t feel anything for you”, except up to that point everything seemed great, and just a few days before we were watching out kids playing and laughing at how we’re probably going to be grand-parents together some day. The 180 is startling.
This was a few weeks ago. I guess I finally wanted to reach-out here because I’m so numbed at this point that I don’t know what to do. On one hand there are times when we have a wonderful time, but then something in her recoils and drama enters. I am successfully detaching, and I still care a great deal for the mother of my kids, but it is becoming harder to see myself being a part of her life. This loss of sensitivity terrifies me because it was always such a strong part of who I am. By now I deserve my own psych degree as I have consumed a library-full of relationship and behavioral science books so understand well codependency, avoidant and anxious attachment types, and everything in between. I am also becoming an expert on ADHD which she acknowledges to have (her IC agrees with this as well). It seems like it’s time for me to let go of the relationship and allow her to face her issues on he own, however the kids and our new house keep me anchored anchored in this situation. She’s not helping. She hasn’t mentioned divorce, only that she doesn’t know where she stands with us and needs to separate to figure things out. I’m willing to give her space, and said so, but I’m so exhausted fighting this that I just can’t seem to do it anymore. And so I’m reaching out to the community here to see if anyone has any perspective on this, or has gone through something similar before I make the decision to go?
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I've been lurking in this forum and applying a lot of the helpful information in my own situation already. I guess I have to already thank-you for the help so far as many of your posts in other threads have been a positive help to me. That and the other moderators and users. Thank you all. You're too numerous to mention, but sincere gratitude to all for sharing your stories and advice.
Marc, why were you fighting so much? Are one of both of you a "right fighter"? IE you'd rather be right than happy? Do you look back and see that the majority of the fights didn't even matter? That you could have given in, avoided a fight, and been better for it?
When my wife and I would fight (and we are both stonewallers, by the way, or were), it usually had to do with something bigger than the actual fight. I wasn't sexually fulfilled so I was over critical and nitpicking her. Since I was so surly and angry all the time she had a very low tolerance for me. Since I was nitpicking her the minute I didn't pick something up, or clean up after myself she'd make a big deal about it. The thing we were fighting about wasn't REALLY what we were fighting about.
So not fighting wasn't going to fix the problem. Only fixing the problem, underlying, would fix the problem.
Did you understand why you were fighting? Have you 180'd on anything that might help relieve it?
Finally, you seem to be at the point of giving up. Marc it takes two people, working together, to make a marriage. It only takes one person to make a divorce. Either one person wants a D and pursues it. Or one person gives up and eventually the other one gives up and pursues D.
So you need to answer that for yourself. Are you at the point where you are done trying? If so, then go file and see it through. My guess is that if that were the case, you would have done that. Which makes me think, that the reason you are posting here, is because you aren't there yet.
Look, this is the hardest thing any of us has had to go through (unless someone fought a deadly disease). Patience, longsuffering, perseverance are all attributes you absolutely MUST possess if you have any chance of saving your marriage. LBSs always gets frustrated with WAS's lack of "knowing". "Do you want a D?" "I don't know." "How long should we keep trying?" "I don't know." Rarely will you get a straight answer. And for some LBS's that is worse than being given the bad news.
Here is the thing Marc, I too came here.....after 6 weeks of limbo, asking "when is enough, enough?" And a very wise vet gave me this nugget: limbo is the gift of time. It allows you to work on your 180s, and demonstrate them to your S. It allows you to work on GAL and show that to your S. It allows you to work on detachment and self-differentiation and to become a spouse only a fool would leave! Would ripping off the bandaid make healing quicker? Yes. But it might not heal the way you want it to.
So relax. Take it easy. Breathe. Let things work themselves out. Your W isn't running full long into separation and D. Many of the posters here would kill to have that dynamic going on in their sitch.
One thing that we don't talk enough about here is that these sitches require you to grow up and mature. Being grown up and having maturity mean not having to have what you think you want the minute you want it. Being a grown up and being mature mean you realize that good things come to those that wait. That anything worthwhile isn't acquired overnight. That putting the cart before the horse rarely gets you to where you want to go.
So slow down and coast for a while. Stop thinking you have to be doing SOMETHING. Many times the best thing you can do in these things is nothing but wait.
Sorry you are here, but I am glad you found this place in your sitch. We can help. We can offer support.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Steve85 – I appreciate your perspective and I agree with a lot of it. This situation isn’t new for me though. I have been trying to fix the situation (by fixing myself) for years now. Each time my W would seem to mellow out and things would be ok for a while, but then things flare up again. The thing is that I know I have to change myself and dig deep to understand the situation without falling into the usual self-defeating narratives and resentment. That requires being mindful, having to always dance on a sword’s edge, and constantly expand huge amounts of emotional energy. Energy I don’t feel I have much of anymore. You see I dug deep into myself over the years. I understood my part in all this. I’ve come to see that my father’s emotional distance, and my mom’s emotional abuse has caused me to recoil from deep emotional connections with people. All this has changed because of my kids. I noticed that I purposefully kept my kids at a distance, just like my dad did. I realized what it was doing to my son.
And it broke me.
I wasn’t going to continue the cycle with my kids. I was done with it. I looked in the mirror and had a cold, hard, objective look at myself and for the first time I saw myself as a person who has value and self worth. I am an awesome dad now. I spend time with my kids, and I truly allow myself to be vulnerable around them. That’s a huge change in my life, and it has had positive effect in other aspects as well. I make friends easily now. I care about their daily lives. When they hurt, I hurt. I just see a difference in how people respond to me now because I’m not closed off.
But that’s the trap. When we allow ourselves to be vulnerable we become sensitive to other people’s pain. Especially those close to us. My wife’s pain is similar to mine, but she has probably had it worse. Her parents loved her, but didn’t take much interest in her success. As long as she seemed ok she was left to her own devices. Their lives were filled with time spent on other people and causes. Then, when it really mattered in her young life she developed a chronic skin condition that was impossible to hide. People noticed, but her parents made like it was nothing (her dad has it too). And that’s the problem; the primary driver in their lives is to pretend everything is always ok, and so they never validated her feelings or struggles. Sometimes you can do so much damage by saying “You’re ok. This is not a big deal.” But to a young child marked with visible skin lesions this is a big deal, and so she developed a sense that she doesn’t matter and it has remain a dominant personality trait since. It’s ironic because she’s an overachiever, though not surprising since people who overachieve many times do so in hope of their parents noticing. That part I understand. It’s in me too. So that’s the dilemma for me. Her biggest fear is that of emotional abandonment. Yet, these journeys of self discovery are meant to be undertaken by on one-self. Probably the reason I’m here is because I forgot that and I pushed her, gave advice, I tried to control her environment, and got frustrated with her when she got frustrated with it. That’s on me, but I know better now. But maybe it’s too late. I don’t know. Anyhow, the question is now what to do with all this knowledge? I truly love her, but I feel like her pain is destroying me. Can love be truly unconditional if only one partner’s needs are met? Do I feed her fear of abandonment by leaving, or do I stay knowing that she might never see the light at the end of the tunnel.
I’m terrified of remaining in that darkness with her, never knowing the warmth of an emotionally available partner?
Ready2Change – It never left the EA stage. The OM has huge issues of their own and one day it just blew up in her face. It all happened while she had a huge nervous breakdown. Afterwards she came to me, said that she was under a lot of strain, and it was never going to happen again. I don’t know if I really believe that anymore.
I wish I could rename this thread to "Should I stay, or should I go". The original title sounds like I'm tired of drama, but my own posts sounds so dramatic. I hate be a hypocrite.
Don't mean to pry. Just out of curiosity? What is the skin condition. I have one too that is familial. Missing chromosome. Women are carriers, but the men get it. My mother's father had it. My mom was a carrier. Myself and all my brothers have it. Icthyosis Vulgaris. (Fish Scales in Greek.) Although I'm Italian. I have scales all over my arms and legs Stinks cause it makes a huge flaky mess I have to vacumn daily, but it bakes off and sheds with first sunburn of summer, and goes smooth until October.
IHCLACS - She has psoriasis. It appeared when she was very young. These days it's mostly in remission, but at times she can break out all over her. She treats it with UVs. Most of the time getting enough sun keeps her skin clear, but she's had to deal a lot with other people's judgement which made her very sensitive to criticism.
