Sorry I haven't replied in a long time. I got nervous...things started to look up with H, and I felt like posting here was a mistake. Like clockwork, things are as they always were and I find I need some support. Hang with me ya'll. I'll try not to ghost again.
Since last time, I was going to IC and not seeming to connect with her...also was seeing improvements in day to day life, stopped drinking and had little to no contact from H and things were getting easier so I stopped the counseling. Went through an episode of depression where I found it almost impossible to get out of bed and definitely recognized it. I was tired of feeling dumpy so I decided to clean until I couldn't clean anymore. Organized, had my friend over, got my finances straightened out and put a proper meal plan together with a successful grocery trip...something H criticizes me all the time for about not doing.
H and I still have finances very much conjoined and he is wildly accommodating in that he has his check direct deposited and asks me to just tell him what he has to spend. Lately this hasn't been working out so well as he will shift money around the accounts and spend without any concern. We have both been turning a blind eye to the mounting financial issues but the last straw for me was a warning notice from a medical bill about to go to collections. A quick list of our expenses/income in black and white seemed to stun him into better spending behavior and working the budget gave me a healthier outlet for the controlling behaviors I can't seem to extinguish. However, since sharing this info with him and needing to keep in contact more often about daily finances, he has been incredibly friendly. He has been sending friendly phone calls, visiting with our daughter more, and oddly, trying to confide in me more like old pals. He says he thinks he's dealing with BPD and he will schedule an appointment with a new IC. I notice that he's beginning to adopt a "grass is greener" mentality as he gets more tired of staying with his parents. We have a history of being able to confide in each other about his parents idiosyncrasies and it starts to feel like old times...until he tells me that he's "so tired of being over there..." he "misses us so much..." and now he "wants to come home...but he's scared"
This revelation came AFTER a R conversation where he basically told me that by making him take accountability for the women he has been talking to, I was disregarding the journey he's on to restore his mental health and that he needs me to "be up here with him..." That if we're "back here" focusing on the issue of the ladies, how can we be "up here" focusing on what's really important...his mental health? He briefly brought up that "maybe we could talk about marriage counseling" but that if we went that route, we really needed to "be a team and move forward in total trust from that point on without bringing up the past"
...do WHAT?! Are you actually trying to school me now, brother?!
I simply asked him how on Earth he expects me to do that if the behaviors have never stopped to which he replied "nothing will ever change and we will be having these same conversations forever!" ...then he left the house, went home, and a couple hours later sent me a song in an effort to explain the struggle he's having with his mental health and I began to feel sorry for him.
He goes back and forth between wanting to come home and really angry when I take another step toward detaching after continued contact with the other women. He freaked out when he finally noticed I took some pictures off the fridge and in response, removed some himself from our walls to which he then told me to put all his things in the garage. He later apologized for taking the pictures down. His typical response to any behavior of mine that seems to eliminate him from my life is utter rage and disposal...followed by self-deprecation and remorse. It is very confusing and I'm struggling to keep my own emotions in check when this happens. I almost feel responsible for guiding him through a mental rehabilitation because I am not the only one he struggles to communicate with properly and saving him/giving him more chances to prove himself is a really co-dependent behavior I've adopted, I just never realized how deeply.
How do I stop falling victim to the guilt trips and end this cycle until he gets himself some help?! How do I interact with him in a healthy way so that he can still spend time with our D? He still pays the mortgage, he's the one who initiated the move out...I'm still not even sure why...and he comes and goes as he pleases...how do I address this? I have told him I don't want him to move back home until I'm sure he's serious and things have changed and then he makes it out to be like he's schooling ME on the fact that he needs me to be a different kind of spouse. About the time I feel like I've been clear about what I expect from him and I won't take anything less...I somehow end up feeling like I'm the one who needs to do more at the end of the convo. WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE?! Help...
what are your ages and how long have you been married?
H is 30, I'm 28, and we've been married for 5 years but together for 12
Originally Posted by RanchRKS
My H had confessed to possible sex addiction during the revelation of the A and I blew him off at the time as it felt like a cop out for lots of bad behavior over lots of years.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Given what has transpired since then do you feel this is a more serious problem than you originally suspected?
Yes, definitely. It seems that his father has the same problem. He's afraid of becoming like his father and H has a history of not only confiding in women and having an A, but also considerable background on websites involving live chat with performers and a daily porn habit that has become almost ritual. He once thought the porn was a problem but doesn't now and thinks it is the least of his problems.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Would you say he's controlling and manipulative?
Yes, but he has also said that I exhibit controlling behaviors too, so now I'm not sure which came first, the chicken or the egg. I never considered myself THAT controlling, but these days I'm not sure what's true when I look thru the lens of his perspective
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Work on you. Leave him alone and hopefully he'll start working on some of his issues.
I am struggling with what to do when the detaching starts working...although, I'll say that he has a tendency, if I'm not wildly impressed by his trips to the counselor, his cute pictures with our daughter, or I'm not quick to answer his messages/calls...he gets really bent out of shape and this makes me uncomfortable so maybe it's more of a guilt trip than an actual turnaround. I find myself in the middle of it before I know how to respond properly so this is becoming a huge problem and creating an emotional swinging pendulum I'd love to get a handle on!
Honestly, how is it that I have this innate ability to pretend everything is fine when he's being nice to me? Like what's happening literally isn't happening...
...this isn't healthy...do other people have relationships like this?
I know that this is a huge contributing factor to why things have been this way forever...I honestly thought things were normal for so long but I realize I have not acknowledged the very NOT FINE things between us and it's because I literally have no problem acting like things are fine until I'm triggered. Then it's like I'm a raging bull. My husband seems to do the same thing and it's only now that we're separated that I have lightbulb moments like, "hey, actually none of this is okay..." but why don't those moments kick in when I'm with him?? What does all this mean?
You have that ability b/c you are putting on your rose colored glasses. You want to see it that way, and so you do. Other people have relationships like this, but you should not.
By sweeping things under the rug, you create that raging bull. Those negative thoughts stew and cook and intensify, they don't magically disappear do they?
Don't make coming back home too easy for him. I know you want him back, but you will create a monster if you make it super easy. I speak from experience on this issue.
Originally Posted by RanchRKS
This revelation came AFTER a R conversation where he basically told me that by making him take accountability for the women he has been talking to, I was disregarding the journey he's on to restore his mental health and that he needs me to "be up here with him..." That if we're "back here" focusing on the issue of the ladies, how can we be "up here" focusing on what's really important...his mental health?
That's the biggest crock of "baloney" I've ever read. He wants you to turn a blind eye to his extramarital activities? Nah. Do not engage in these convos further, as long as you've made your position clear. He wants you to feel bad for him so he can continue talking to other women. Just do what's right here, you know what it is, you're just scared of it. Easier said than done, I know that from experience.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
If I'm honest, I don't want to be in a romantic relationship with him at all right now. With him at his parents house it's so easy not to think about him in a romantic way...and with the finances starting to get square, my daily routines keeping me stable and productive, and incredibly civil interactions with H...I'm afraid to rock the boat with dramatic declarations right now.
Some days it's almost like the extramarital affairs aren't even happening. We are both turning a total blind eye to the problem and talking like the separation doesn't even exist in that moment. I know this isn't healthy but I only realize how blindly I'm having these interactions after they're over, so I thought I needed to do something more significant to show how serious I was...again. ::face palm::
I had it in my head yesterday that I would confront him...if he couldn't bring himself to stop the extramarital affairs (which are clearly obvious in black and white) then I would be filing for a divorce...then I reduced it to a legal separation when I thought about the cost of divorce...and when I thought about discussing visitation and how formal all the arrangements would be and what a disruption it would be to the groove we've finally gotten into, I choked. I have gotten used to him not living at the house and living as "pals" but it's not how I envision my future. How long do I hang out in limbo, and would it be considered using him for his money if I lie in wait for my savings to build but keep the peace the way things are? How forward should I be in addressing this right now?
We don't want divorce, separation, or affairs. We want our spouses. But when we stick around during these affairs, we send the message that we are going to stay when they are involved with someone else.
I have had this conversation many times with my priest, and I told him last week: "The only thing I can do is file for divorce or separation". He agreed. A Catholic priest. I didn't think I was allowed to do that, or that he'd agree with me. It's only our fears holding us back from doing the right thing. I'm getting closer every day, and so are you.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I had it in my head yesterday that I would confront him
It will do no good to confront him about the affair. He is a serial cheater. Based on what you've said, I suspect his sexual appetite for more women than just his W, has led him into a realm that will require much more than a confrontation. The W cannot change him. She can't love him enough for him to change. He doesn't value the MR enough to change. The W cannot satisfy him enough by participating in sex with others. The more he requires to satisfy his sexual appetite, the less likely he will settle for what we think of as a "normal" or healthy sexual relationship with only his W.
I very rarely ever tell someone right off the bat that they need to get out of their M, however, I feel you should let him go. You can build a better life for yourself. There actually are men out there who will love one woman and be faithful to her. You don't have to put up with this mess. ((hugs))
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How long do I hang out in limbo, and would it be considered using him for his money if I lie in wait for my savings to build but keep the peace the way things are? How forward should I be in addressing this right now?
Are you employed or totally dependent upon his financial support?
By keeping the peace, do you mean to act as "pals"? How do you think he would respond if he knew you wanted a D?
Are you having sex with him?
Do you have family and friends for emotional support?
You've been with him since you were a kid. His influence over you is obvious, ..........however, I see a grown woman who wants to lead her own life. At the moment, you are afraid and it's difficult for you to stand up to him. You are stronger than you think. You don't have to "settle" for a H who has a track record of unfaithfulness. It breaks my heart to think you might consider staying in this situation b/c you might get use to it.......and making change is a little scary. But then when I remember you've been with him since you were sixteen, it kind of makes sense that this is all you've known.
Keep posting. ((hugs))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
He's afraid of becoming like his father and H has a history of not only confiding in women and having an A, but also considerable background on websites involving live chat with performers and a daily porn habit that has become almost ritual. He once thought the porn was a problem but doesn't now and thinks it is the least of his problems.
Sounds to me like it's a huge problem. I don't have an issue with people watching porn as part of a healthy relationship but in his case it's part of a pattern of sex addiction that is affecting his ability to have a normal relationship, or to even understand what a normal relationship is. He's ALREADY like his father, maybe even worse. But like any addict he doesn't see how far gone he is.
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Yes, but he has also said that I exhibit controlling behaviors too, so now I'm not sure which came first, the chicken or the egg. I never considered myself THAT controlling, but these days I'm not sure what's true when I look thru the lens of his perspective
Granted I am only reading your side of the story, but you don't sound controlling to me. On the contrary you have been very accommodating to him but it hasn't gotten you anywhere so you are now trying to protect yourself. That is NOT being controlling. BE VERY CAREFUL WITH HIM because controlling people are very good at manipulating their victims into thinking that they are at fault.
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I am struggling with what to do when the detaching starts working...although, I'll say that he has a tendency, if I'm not wildly impressed by his trips to the counselor, his cute pictures with our daughter, or I'm not quick to answer his messages/calls...he gets really bent out of shape and this makes me uncomfortable so maybe it's more of a guilt trip than an actual turnaround.
That's exactly right. He has a long, long way to go before he actually hits rock bottom and starts addressing his issues, if that ever even happens. Until then you've got to keep detaching and giving him time and space. You are doing it for YOU.
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Honestly, how is it that I have this innate ability to pretend everything is fine when he's being nice to me? Like what's happening literally isn't happening...
...this isn't healthy...do other people have relationships like this?
Yes and just like you they struggle getting out of the grasp of the person manipulating them. Usually it takes a few months before they start to realize just how much they were being abused/ manipulated.
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I honestly thought things were normal for so long
It's not normal, hopefully we are helping you to realize that.
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I am afraid...
Of course you are, we have all been through that phase, it's part of it and it is normal.
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If I'm honest, I don't want to be in a romantic relationship with him at all right now. With him at his parents house it's so easy not to think about him in a romantic way...and with the finances starting to get square, my daily routines keeping me stable and productive, and incredibly civil interactions with H...I'm afraid to rock the boat with dramatic declarations right now.
Can you specify what you mean by "dramatic declarations"? I don't think we're suggesting you do anything other than what you are already doing. Stay separated. Continue to work on your daily routine, finances, etc. just like you described. Leave him alone. Don't let him pull you in. Keep convos strictly business-like and VERY brief.
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I had it in my head yesterday that I would confront him...if he couldn't bring himself to stop the extramarital affairs (which are clearly obvious in black and white) then I would be filing for a divorce...then I reduced it to a legal separation when I thought about the cost of divorce...and when I thought about discussing visitation and how formal all the arrangements would be and what a disruption it would be to the groove we've finally gotten into, I choked.
There's no hurry, just take a deep breath and continue doing what you're doing. Formal S and D can wait.
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How long do I hang out in limbo, and would it be considered using him for his money if I lie in wait for my savings to build but keep the peace the way things are?
